Old Forum - webDiplomacy

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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.

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12 Jun 11 UTC

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New game: gameID=61317

Another day! Looking for a few good players that won't leave when the shit gets tough.

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Culture and Imperialism-2: After game Discussion

Hello fellow players,
Any interest in a discussion on the second Culture and Imperialism game? ( http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=58253 )

26 replies

ButcherChin (370

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16 Jun 11 UTC

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Sitters

Can someone explain to me how you get a sitter into one or more of your games? Because I'm going on a cruise in 4 days, and I can't use my phone there.

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(B)

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Let's Go Vancouver!

They almost look like the leafs. =/
The cup belongs in Canada.

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16 Jun 11 UTC

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i want to translate diplomacy

i want to translate diplomacy
i know english and spanish
who is in charge of that?

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(B)

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Welcome dforce66!

I'd like to welcome a new member to our community. I had the chance to play a live gunboat with him earlier today.

3 replies

icecream777 (100

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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LIVE GAME

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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error

i need help, everytime i log on, the website shows the last build phase as the current phase. i'm not sure what is going on, here's the game http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=57963

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11 Jun 11 UTC

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Japan.. How do we perceive them?

Hey guys, lets talk about Japan.
What are your thoughts on Japanese authorities allowing themselves to keep shrines for the old imperialist Generals in honor of their 'heroism'?
If you don't know what 'heroism' they have displayed in the past, than please I believe that we all have the right to know, and we can start this thread with those information.

178 replies

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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How do I contact a Moderator

Hello, how do I contact a moderator about a likely violation of the rule about one person controlling two powers in a game?

17 replies

Thucydides (864

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Game with several people from Boston Ftf - open to anyone - game starts in 2.5 hours

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=61416

Join up guys pass = Boston

0 replies

DipCastGuys (100

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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DiplomacyCast Episode 5 up tonight!

Enjoy it, everyone. Sorry about the delay.

5 replies

obiwanobiwan (248

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08 Jun 11 UTC

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I Hate To Ask Another Religious Question, But...

...this one won't STOP, because so many of teh friends I know won't stop. I'm NOT questioning anyone's beliefs, I'm just curious as to the reason why some religious people--and I'll admit this is mainly Christians I mean here, but that's just from my own personal experience, so if this is not you, don't take offense--seem to thank Jesus or Gor for EVERYTHING...even when it's clearly something THEY did (like do well on a test...unless God REALLY CARES if you got that A+, why thank him?)

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obiwanobiwan (248 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

@Santa:

I don't question religious scholars?

To be clear:

I don't consider someone who's preached at their local church for 20 years a "religious scholar."

I'm sure those people are both very nice and very devoted to their belief, but that's just it--they're very devoted to THEIR belief, and so will stand by it, and really it would come down to their trying to convince me their way is THE way, which I neither want nor need.

A "Religious Scholar" is someone like, say, a Harvard Professor of Religions who's studied multiple religions, knows the texts in multiple languages, has visited the various religious sites, and so on and so forth, and, most importantly, they are a scholar and NOT pre-dispositioned strongly to any one of the faiths they claim to be a scholar on or, to be as fair as possible, since they may have their own beliefs, that they are at least OBJECTIVE to a degree about said beliefs.

If a Minister or Rabbi did that...yes, I'd listen, but, as I've said, my issue isn't that they're bad or even that they're not educated...

They're just not as objective as I'd like, and that's OK, their job allows them and even encourages them to be subjectively-partial to one faith, the one they preach.

As I care for an objective opinion from a scholar--and, to balance that out, subjective opinions from the folks I meet every day, be they ministers, miners, McDonald's shift workers, or whoever else is on the bus--that precludes ministers and rabbis there.

If I want a sermon or subjective opinion, I'll seek a rabbi or minister.
If I want an objective take, I'll seek someone like that "Ivory Tower" figure.

Removed from the rest of the world? If you wish to call them so, yes.
But that's what I want--someone who IS detached and objective.

Someone, in short, who can put Dawkins and Deuteronomy side by side and give me their own, objective critical analysis with neither the Atheist Manifesto nor a Hellfire Sermon (and yes, both are stereotypes, I kid here to make the point...from a scholar, it's an objective opinion I want.) :)

obiwanobiwan (248 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Well, again, Yonni, I think you can have Atheist Cultural Jews, as that's just dealing with the culture...sort of...I mean, the culture DOES include, generally, some religious holidays, which may be odd if you're not religious, but I suppose you can enjoy them in a secular fashion, so why not.

But Atheist Religious Jew? No. And that's not being bigoted, ot drawing an arbitrary line, it's just a contradiction of terms--you cannot be Atheistic AND be Religious.

By the same token, I'd say you can't just "claim" one day you're Jewish; I'm not saying you have to go through years of study, but simply that if you've never done anything in your life that's the least bit Jewish, I don't think you can wake up one day and say you're a Jew, the same way that if I've never cooked, I can't just wake up one day and declare "I am a Gourmet Chef!"

"Gourmet Chef" is a constructed, subjective term, sure...but it goes without saying you have to at least cook one meal before you can make the claim, yes? ;)

Same thing with being a Jew. :)

Yonni (136 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Right, sorry, looking back I misspoke a little. I didn't mean atheist religious jew. But rather, religious not-orthodox Jew. I'm not sure what point I was getting at there, other than maybe that people have very different ways of describing their own identity...

At any rate, I had a right-wing fundie teacher growing up that agreed with your point. He always said "just because I call myself a duck and sometimes quack, am I a duck?" I've certainly wavered on either side of the argument. But, for me, the problem always comes down to where to draw the line and, as I don't feel comfortable doing so, I'm now more of the opinion that anyone can identify however they want. If its truly how they feel, then why not?

SantaClausowitz (360 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

I just want to clarify before i leave the thread, I never stated Obi was not a Jew, I never claimed that he wasn't, if you dont like what i said, fine, but dont put words in my mouth and make stuff up. Perhaps I was tired last night and somewhere i said obi wasnt a jew, but I dont recall doing that (and im not going to look through all the posts) and i dont believe i ever said that. Show me where i said he wasnt a Jew and ill accept any criticism about drawing arbitrary lines.
My thinking was always related to the future, future generations etc. Its a slippery slope argument more than anything. If Judaism becomes Protestantism lite because we fit our beliefs into the box of American religion, the reason for the continuance of the religion and culture willl be undermined. But whatever people put words into your mouth here all the time why should this be different.

SantaClausowitz (360 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

"I'm sure those people are both very nice and very devoted to their belief, but that's just it--they're very devoted to THEIR belief, and so will stand by it, and really it would come down to their trying to convince me their way is THE way, which I neither want nor need."

how would you know, you never tried. I know exactly where you are coming from because I was there too. You keep on telling me that you wont agree with the guy, but are you telling me you cant take opinions you dont agree with? You cant have an argument with someone you dont see eye to eye with (I know thats not the case). Rabbis dont bite and contrary to popular belief they dont brainwash. And finally Rabbis usually dont sermonize, they arnt protestant ministers. The vast majority of rabbis dont have a congregation, they are teachers, they study, they learn, they teach. It seems you have this vision that you are going to walk into a room and a guy is going to talk at you for 3 hours, it usually is not the case.

But you are set in your ways, do as you will. Just remember, if you ever want to learn the religion's answers to these questions you can go see a rabbi

Baskineli (100 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Rabbis do bite sometimes, and some of them most certainly brainwash their followers (just like priests and mullas do - that's their "job"). You are lucky to live in the US, where all kinds of Judaism are accepted. Unfortunately, in Israel, religion is forcefully tied with the state, and some (majority? I didn't count) Orthodox Rabbis actually brainwash their followers.

My problem with most kinds of religion is that it usually boils to one question and one answer. The question is 'Why?' and the answer is 'Because God wants to.'

I am a non-religious Jew. I believe that God might exist. Sometimes I even talk to him ;)

obiwanobiwan (248 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

LOL Shalom Baskineli...

Putin33 (111 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

I'm sick of Santa's bullshit. He says Obi's attitude is leading to Jewish culture dying out in America, but wants to insist that he wasn't questioning the authenticity of Obi's Jewishness. If you weren't questioning Obi as being culturally Jewish you wouldn't have made this kind of statement. Stop making these claims and then pretending to be the victim of misinterpretation.

SantaClausowitz (360 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

The lack of knowledge in the Jewish community, as evidenced by a jew who thinks a protestant minister is the same thing as a rabbi, is leading to its destruction, what was not clear about that. Its easy to be a victim of misinterpretation when you have Putin on your case, because thats all you fucking do

SantaClausowitz (360 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

and Bask, I am aware of the situation in Israel, which is a shame, here due to the reasons you mentioned, it is not. Outreach groups meet with students like equals and are more than willing to discuss. Hopefully the time will soon come when the rabbinate in Israel realizes that Judaism is more than what the chief Rabbi says it is.

With that im done, I dont feel like arguing about what I was thinking with Putin

obiwanobiwan (248 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Because Putin's pointed out the logical flaw in your argument, or because you're off to go spread the word about Proper Jewish Etiquette to millions of unlistening Internet goers...

Even though you yourself said you're not affiliated with a faith anyway.

Putin33 (111 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Not everybody shares your confused and nonsensical adoration for religious professionals. Especially professed atheists/agnostics. That doesn't make them bad Jews, anymore than not being a southern Baptist makes someone a bad African America. Get over it.

Putin33 (111 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

*African American

obiwanobiwan (248 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

@pastoralan:

OK, thank you for that clarification.

I suppose I still think that to be a Christian minister you have to already be pre-disposed to accept Christ and God as the answer to certain questions--which is what I meant, mostly, ie, if I were to ask who the Messiah is, a Christian would seemingly have to answer Christ, and if I asked if there's a God the answer would have to be "yes"--but I can see what you're saying in that a minister can be communicate and not make Christ the answer, perhaps, to any and all questions, so that seems a bit less dogmatic than I intially thought.

Baskineli (100 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

@Santa
I hope that Israeli secular Jews will have enough power to stop the religious oppression in Israel. The rabbinate will do nothing to change the current situation - they are pretty happy about it.

SantaClausowitz (360 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

"I hope that Israeli secular Jews will have enough power to stop the religious oppression in Israel. The rabbinate will do nothing to change the current situation - they are pretty happy about it."

I agree.

Jamiet99uk (873 )
09 Jun 11 UTC

Interesting thread. Especially, an interesting OP. Setting aside the over-the-top row between Santa and obiwan/Putin/nearly everyone else about whether or not obiwan is culturally jewish, I'm intested in what a few people said in response to the question posed in the OP itself:

@semck83: "He [god] ultimately decided that I would do well on the test..."

@rollerfiend: "We have to thank God because goodness happens out of God's will."

@JakeBob: "He really *does* care about if you got an A+ because everything that you hear and go through and experience is shaping your character and forming you as a human. He has a specific plan for each and every person. He has it planned down to the most minuscule detail."

Three people with very troubling views of the world. All of the above quotes imply that man does not have free will. Do you really think that? Every single thing that happens is due to God's direct intervention? Seriously? In that case your thanking God is of no value, since you only thank him because he decided that you would thank him.

More worryingly, this would imply that original sin was God's fault - Eve only chose the forbidden fruit because God willed her do to so. Adam and Eve cannot therefore be blamed for sinning - since according to your view they only sinned because it was God's will that they would sin.

That's a weird view of the world, isn't it? Kinda implies that if God *does* exist.... he's a bit of an asshole.

@PresidentEden: "I don't need an invisible man in the sky to tell me robbing, raping, ransacking, razing and repeatedly murdering is wrong."

PresidentEden +1

mapleleaf (0 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

" In my country there is problem,
and that problem is the Jew.
He takes everybody's money, he never give it back.
Throw the Jew down the well,
so my country can be free!
You must grab him by his horns,
and we'll have a big party."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb3IMTJjzfo

Draugnar (0 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

@Obi - You are so misinformed about religious scholars. Just because many fundie preachers are as you describe does not make all men and women of the cloth the same as them. Many ministers and priests go to seminary for years and some even get higher degrees of divinity. One of my former ministers was the Reverend Dr. Livingston (nope, didn't make that up) as he had a PhD in Divinity. He was a scholar. Mu current pastor has a Masters of Divinity from Wittenberg. You assume way to much if you think all local ministers are fundie Baptists and independents. Go find a Catholic or Lutheran or UCC church and talk to their clergy.

President Eden (2750 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

"That's a weird view of the world, isn't it? Kinda implies that if God *does* exist.... he's a bit of an asshole."

lol. We have a virus that only attacks humans' immune systems that is responsible for hundreds of thousands or millions of deaths a year. By the standard-issue Christian view, that means God created a virus whose only purpose is to kill humans for reasons never explained (and probably inexplicable).

I could go on. Point is, the only way I can see a God existing is either in an apathetic or unequivocally anti-human form. (And I would expect the latter would have struck me down by now for being a jerk about him, so I'm gonna go with apathetic.)

Draugnar (0 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

Oh, and Obi... Christ means Messiah. They are the same word in two different base languages.

obiwanobiwan (248 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

FINALLY, MAPLE!

What too you so long?

obiwanobiwan (248 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

I think you're assuming too much on what *I* allegedly am assuming, Draugnar.

I'm not saying at all that priests and rabbis and ministers aren't hgihly-educated or inquistive, not am I denying the difficulty and prestige of the priesthood or anything of the sort. On the contrary, I recognize it takes a LOT of work.

My reason for not wanting their opinion--or, to be more accurate, to not seek their opinion first, or go out of my way to get it, it's not like I'll turn a deaf ear if they wish to give it and happen to be there, I'm just not going on a special trip to hear them, so to speak--isn't that their opinion is poor or poorly-formed or that they're not worthwhile.

My reason is that they already HAVE their answer...and so my question becomes irrelevant in the sense that where I want a Dialogue to FIND an answer, they already have theirs.

And, again, to be clear--there's nothing WRONG with that.

I just want to find MY answer...and I can't do that from merely latching onto the answers others offer.

I want, again, a dialogue, an ongoing discussion and quest for the answers that religion, in one form or another, already has answered.

Christianity tells you who's running the show, gives hints as to where you go when you die, what it means to live and die, and all of that.

As does Judaism and Islam and any other religion.

I prefer an amalgamation of ideas, hence the "Philosophy Weekly" trope--I like the opinions of MANY different people, and, correspondingly, I like the views on hand of MANY different philosophers...

From Aquainus to Aristotle to Nietzsche, Theist and Agnostic and Atheist and in-between.

It isn't that I hate religion, or rabbis, or ministers and, again, on the occaisons one happens to be on the bus, sure, I have a chat with them.

I just don't see the need to consult them with the kind of exclusivity and reverence that Santa implies I MUST before I form ANY idea on my or any other religious view.

obiwanobiwan (248 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

I like Star Trek, remember?
And The Lord of the Rings movies.
And the various versions of King Arthur.

I prefer the raging debates between Kirk, Spock, and Bones, or the diversity of the nations in Middle Earth, or the comraderie of the Round Table, to any one, single, uniform answer.

That's all I'm saying...diversity,discussion, and open dialogue, THAT'S what I want most of all.

Draugnar (0 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

@Obi - You said you didn't believe someone who preached at a local church for 20 years was a religious scholar. That is where I said you assumed wrong. My point was that they may well be a religious scholar. You assumed they weren't. Do you deny it? And that was your reason for not wanting the discourse with them. But just because they have 30 or 40 years on you and have answers isn't a reason not to seek their opinion and discuss your views with them. The key is to discuss it with a variety of them from many religions, not just Christiantiy or Judaism.

semck83 (229 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

@Jamie,

Thanks for your response. It doesn't actually imply that man doesn't have free will; just that he doesn't have free will unbounded by anything. God can decide who will get free will and in what circumstances, if you will. That happens whether or not you believe in God: you don't get to choose the circumstances in which you exercise your free will.

baumhaeuer (245 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

At obi's response to my post back on page 1:

You asked why Christians thank Him for every good, small thing that they clearly did themselves without any apparent outside help. I answered. The "Problem of Evil," or "Problem of Pain," as it can be called, wasn't part of your original post and subject matter. Try to stay on the topic you posted, which is, 1) why the heck thank God for stuff you yourself did, and 2) why the heck would He care anyway?

obiwanobiwan (248 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

@Draug:

To clarify what I meant, then, I meant that that doesn't atuomatically make them a religious scholar, the fact they've preached fro 20 years...

Case in point--the old Asian minister who comes on the bus with the same sermon of "Jesus loves you so much you'd better convert now or you all go to hell so come to our church and accept Jesus or else."

THAT doesn't say "religious scholar" to me.
That says "religious troll."

Can you be a religious scholar and be a minister or rabbi?

...

Well, I'd call that being a Christian scholar or Rabbinical scholar, for the reason of impartiality and objectiveness again, which I think a religious scholar must have and obviously a minister or rabbi doesn't--it doesn't matter how nice or fair or reasonable or open-minded a Christian minister is, if they're asked critically about Jesus, they WILL give some answers that, say, a rabbi wouldn't give, and vice versa, again, just by the basis of their faith.

So the intelligence level or knowledge level isn't what's "lacking" in my calling them a religious scholar.

It's just a matter of impartiality and objectiveness.

obiwanobiwan (248 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

And I don't recall going off into "The Problem of Evil" territory...

I think I just asked why attribute everything good to God and not the bad as well, then, if he's all powerful, I didn't ask why God would allow for Evil or bad things to occur...

But I don't know, maybe that's semantics...?

pastoralan (100 )
10 Jun 11 UTC

@obi: you're making the assumption that academic-style inquiry is a unique way to achieve objective truth. That's a debatable point. You could read a cogent critique of that point in a book called "Foolishness to the Greeks" by Leslie Newbigin. He didn't actually develop most of his arguments, but his presentation of them is a lot better than the people who did (IMNSHO).

I also actually proposed an answer your question; perhaps that would be good to get back to.

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295 replies

TheGhostmaker (1545

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10 Jun 11 UTC

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New Ghost-Ratings up

Usual site:

tournaments.webdiplomacy.net

46 replies

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08 Jun 11 UTC

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Spendy bet and three-day phases: WTA

Who wants to play? (This is the winner-take-all thread.)
1000-point bet, 3-day phases (shorter than a 4-day phase, longer than a 2-day phase, a 3-day phase should be just right), standard map

29 replies

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Strike up a live game

Pretty good game up until Germany left. Yea a major power quitting is never good.

This is the usual moment were i rant about something but I will give it too Russia well played.
gameID=61513

1 reply

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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For the "Not Quite Professionals"

Everyone is either into the crazy expensive live games or the cheap live games. I would like to make a live game with the stakes approx. 100. This would be a winner takes all and a 5 min phase. Who would like to take the risk?

4 replies

goldfinger0303 (3157

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15 Jun 11 UTC

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Replacement needed

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=61146

Anyone willing to pick up China? Its only the first year and it could be salvageable

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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Live Game Mulits Detected, Can Mods Respond QUICKLY!

In the Game Live!!!-4 gameID=61428#gamePanel I believe that

Russia: Libe userID=36148 and
Italy: Somewhat10 userID=29241 are Multis

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Mod

(P)

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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Can we program a variant where a single player can play all seven powers?

I was wondering if it is possible to create a variant or a type of game where a single player could control all seven countries to test out certain strategies or to replay some games that were played elsewhere (not on wedip)?
No points/stat/Ghostrating will be used or rewarded of course.

13 replies

Gunfighter06 (224

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11 Jun 11 UTC

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Best Inventors of All Time

Who are some of your favorites? What did the accomplish, and what year(s) was it done?

45 replies

Ivo_ivanov (7545

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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New game, WTA, anon, 24h, 201 points

Please, express interest via PM or below. There're some selection criteria (CD's and experience/rating) ... can't really bother to define them, so let's say it's all subjective but everyone is welcome :)

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=61488

0 replies

TiresiasBC (388

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13 Jun 11 UTC

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Insomniacs unite!

If you are up because you can't or don't want to sleep, even though you really should be, post here. Let's count and prove whether or not we are few or many.

1 reply

Serioussham (446

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14 Jun 11 UTC

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New Game!

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Mafialligator (239

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08 Jun 11 UTC

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Tell a joke!

There have been so many serious and argumentative threads lately, so I figured I'd lighten the mood. I remember a thread a while back that I enjoyed where people all shared jokes. I thought I'd make a new one rather than find the old one, (it was nearly a year ago). So share your favourite jokes, and laugh at everyone elses (or not I suppose, if they're not very good).

71 replies

The Czech (40297

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13 Jun 11 UTC

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101 Point Live Gunboat

5 replies

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02 Jun 11 UTC

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obama: yes or no

taking a poll on how many of you out there support/oppose obama. feel free to list all the reasons you like, or just your opinions :)

342 replies

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13 Jun 11 UTC

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I wonder if Kestas knew...

Did he?

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03 Jun 11 UTC

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R.I.P Dr. Jack Kevorkian

In the wake of the death of Dr. Kevorkian, let us discuss euthanasia...what are your thoughts about it? Do people have the right to choose to live or die as they wish?

157 replies

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06 Jun 11 UTC

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Ways to play with 6 people

Hey, I am playing diplomacy with some friends, and hope to have 7, but it is looking a little shaky.... Does anyone have any ideas for how to play with 6 besides just having a CD Italy?

29 replies

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