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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Apr 10 UTC
Okay, look.
I want to apologize.
50 replies
Open
KaptinKool (408 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Gunboat-72 - To all players.
Good game all :-)
1 reply
Open
Emperor Ming (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Not Allowing Some Convoys
In a WW4 game...
3 replies
Open
The Dream (765 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Live Gunboat game in 20 mins
Live gunboat in 20 mins need 3 more http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26747
2 replies
Open
lulzworth (366 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
God and Sin
I've noticed in a lot of the religiously oriented threads that it comes up (as in "What if God killed himself?") that God, being perfect, cannot do certain things (like kill himself) on the basis that they are sins. I wanted to offer some extended analysis of this contention...
30 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
live gunboat
in 45 minutes: gameID=26728
3 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
2 more for a gunboat
live in 8 minutes: gameID=26735
0 replies
Open
rlumley (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
I can't send messages in my games...
WTF?
5 replies
Open
dave bishop (4694 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
"All My Friends Know That It Keeps The Bad Thoughts"
This high pot, gunboat WTA game just finished.
Hopefully the players involved can give their thoughts about what was an interesting game.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22383
2 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Player Needed
A player is needed to fill-in for a final game in the TMG Masters' tournament.
Reply to this post if you are interested

Ghost
11 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
15 Apr 10 UTC
The Irish Secret service.
...
6 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
gunboat live
starts in one hour: gameID=26731
10 replies
Open
joey1 (198 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
Need to go for 3 days
Hello, I am going to be away from Thursday evening (EST) to Sunday evening (EST) with no access to the internet. Is there someone who is able to babysit my games. I am going to try to get them to pause, but I know that does not always work.

Joey
4 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
15 Apr 10 UTC
Better End Of Game message needed
The game has ended: You survived until the end, but because this is a winner takes
all game you got no points returned. Better luck next time!
18 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Hellifield Peel Castle http://bit.ly/bwjfVf
This was featured on the UK TV program "Grand Designs", which follows people who are building themselves homes.

It is gorgeous, isn't it?
1 reply
Open
Panthers (470 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Live Medi. in 13 minutes........
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26725
1 reply
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
gunboat game starting soon
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Make Up The Lyrics As We Go!
One line per post, and match the rhythym of the original tune.

First...
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
All Rise, Caps Off For April 15th- Jackie Robinson's Anniversary!
Happy Jackie Robinson Day! On this day 63 years ago on April 15th, 1947, Jackie Robinson played his first game (at 1st Base, not his usual 2nd Base) for the Brooklyn Dodgers becoming the first African American to play Major League Baseball, breaking the Color Barrier and starting so much: a round of applause for #42- JACKIE ROBINSON!
0 replies
Open
dontbcruel (175 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Ancient Game Going
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26697

Play it old skool, kids.
0 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
live gunboat
in 10: gameID=26694
7 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Nuther Gunboat
2 replies
Open
taylank (100 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
WTA live gunboat
3 replies
Open
ReaverNecris (130 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Superiority Complexes. They need to die.
I mean really whether it's mac vs pc or ps3 vs xbox or anything like that people always say: "Oh this is so much better than THAT because of this and this and this and you are retarded for THINKING OTHERWISE"
I have nothing personal against Apple but I have a couple friends that constantly go on and on about how a mac is so much better. I've used a mac before and I don't see it.
10 replies
Open
Stukus (2126 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Favorite Words
My favorite English word is "sleeping dictionary." It means, "a foreign woman with whom a man has a sexual relationship and from whom he learns her language." What are your favorite words?
45 replies
Open
5nk (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
2 Live WTA Gunboats
gameID=26701 - starting in 1 hr
gameID=26702 - starting in 2 hrs
5 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Apr 10 UTC
A Witch! A Commie! A Metagamer!
Seriously, its like Salem or the Red Scare, all these accusations all the time... yeesh!
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TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
@ dexter morgan
If a company causes somebody’s death, it is perfectly right that they should have their rear end sued off them, which makes damn sure that companies be more careful. The courts are indeed an important part of the market. This is not, however regulation.
Alternatively, they could make it quite clear what the risk to work for them is in their contracts, and then the workers can decide whether or not they take the risk. In this case, they would have to pay the workers ‘danger money’, again making an incentive to take a reasonable amount of risk.

As regards the Pinto, the plastic block would have cost $13, installing it would have saved about 200 lives a year, and Ford estimated that each life lost would cost $200,000, and so with the predicted car sales, it wasn’t worth it to install the block. Now, you can argue that the number $200,000 was too low, or even too high, but the principle, that there is a price worth paying, cannot be questioned. You cannot maintain that an infinite value should be placed on a human life, because then you will require that every single piece of resources should be allocated to extending life.

@nola2172
If a road is genuinely beneficial then it should be possible to pay people to get the land to build it etc.

More importantly, though, there is no moral mandate to take someone’s land and build on it just because what you are building is a road.

“For agriculture, if you increased the cost of locally grown food by making them pay for their own roads, you would essentially destroy the domestic agriculture industry because imported food (which would be grown in countries in which the government pays for the roads) would be cheaper. I don't see that being a great idea.”

You mean we’d all get to free ride on the road building of foreign countries, without needing to invest anywhere near as heavily in infrastructure ourselves? Really, that would be fantastic!

To paraphrase Friedman, when someone complains about unfair competition, it is always a request for special privilege.

“1. Britain now has the highest rail fares in Europe, and on average rail fares in the UK are 50% higher than in the rest of Europe. (Source: PassengerFocus survey, February 2009) Isn't privatisation supposed to lead to lower prices thanks to the wonders of competition?”

Yeah, but then again a lot of maintenance has been necessary because it wasn’t done properly under British Rail, so of course prices are going to go up.

Also, as is to be expected, as people got wealthier, they started to use the trains less (a trend that started before privatisation) and so efficiencies of scale were inevitably lost.

“2. In the 30 years before privatisation, there was only one fatal accident on Britain's railways. In the five years following privatisation, there were 5 fatal accidents.”
This is factually incorrect. British Rail was nationalised after ‘93
In ’67
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hither_Green_rail_crash
In ‘88
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Junction_rail_crash
In ‘78
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taunton_train_fire
In ‘73
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ealing_rail_crash
In ’67
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stechford_rail_crash
In ‘86
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockington_rail_crash
In ‘79
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisley_Gilmour_Street_rail_accident
In ‘67
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirsk_rail_crash_(1967)
In ‘72
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltham_Well_Hall_rail_crash
In ‘75
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuneaton_rail_crash

I could go on.... If you want?

“3. Most damning of all is the cost to the taxpayer. We are now paying THREE TIMES more in subsidies to the private rail companies, in real terms, than we did to operate British Rail under public ownership. If that doesn't represent a dramatic failure, I don't know what does.”

Stop paying the effing subsidies! Simples. Subsidies stop market forces from working, and so are actively harmful.

“What libertarians seem to forget in their love of self-interest and the greed is good ideal is that that is exactly why government exists. ...because it is in our self-interest.”

Libertarianism is not equivalent to Objectivism.

Anyway, your error here is to grant primacy to selfishness, rather than the property right. We oppose government because the first principle is the property right. Then the second is selfishness.
BBanner (203 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
The first principle is property right only because you say it is, which is only because a bunch of white bourgeoisie men said it was.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
I'm not going to go into detail for you because you've proven yourself incapable of answering a long post except through a 4 line one at most, but the property right is logically necessary if you are to hold any ethically system. It is logically necessary because it is self-contradictory to deny it. Ultimately, you must appeal to a property right in some formulation.

The reason why it is individual is because only a moral agent can have a property right, and only individuals, not societies, are moral agents.

The reason why it is not, for instance, part of a right to healthcare is because you have ownership over your body from birth, and therefore over your labour.

The reason why not everything is collectively owned is (a) because after that any newborn would have nothing at all, or would somehow get somebody else's property without consent, and (b) because there is no reason why it would be. The default state is unowned, and everything is in that state until somebody legitimately claims it by both proving that it is unowned and marking it out/defining its boundaries in some way (which is actually necessary for the proof that it is unowned)
nola2172 (316 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
TGM - You can't just blow off my assertion that some people won't sell their land. There is significant historical evidence for people refusing to sell their land for any reasonable price, and for road-building projects, it makes no sense to just not have a critical road because somebody has no interest in selling. And anyway, the "no moral mandate to build a road" assertion would essentially mean that some people can intentionally harm others by buying up surrounding land and preventing the first person from ever leaving their property (or using it for anything). A system like this makes no sense whatsoever in practice (which is far more important than theory).

Also, I am not sure how it is a good deal that we buy food at the exact same price we do now, but that we eliminate our ability to produce it locally. This is a total disaster from not only a jobs standpoint (we eliminate our agricultural jobs), but from a national security standpoint because we no longer have an agricultural industry. The problem with the purist approach to free markets is that they only work when everyone has the same rules. When a company in one country is heavily subsidised by the government and competes with another one that is not, if the companies have similar efficiencies, then the subsidised one will eventually destroy the non-subsidised one. For non-critical industries, I guess this might be a "good" idea in that others pay for the subsidies, but the eventual result will be a foreign monopoly than then charges us a forture for something for which we no longer have the infrasture to support, and as a result, we get screwed in the long run.
Chrispminis (916 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
Does anyone who knows the word bourgeoisie not qualify as bourgeousie? I've often wondered that when my fellow students complain about the bourgeousie as though they weren't the offspring of upper middle class parents, living outside of home, attending a very expensive post secondary educational institution to obtain liberal arts degrees.

I don't necessarily believe that selfishness is a moral virtue because I'm not an Objectivist, but I certainly don't consider it a moral vice. Placing property rights in high esteem is not some skyhook premise with no justification... Property rights are quite well justified morally, logically, and pragmatically. If I make a clay jar, should I not be entitled to it? I'm the one who put the effort and inputs to create it. Does anybody else hold a superior entitlement such that they can morally take it away from me?

Humans are imbued with a natural sense of property rights, which makes sense, as no humans would be alive to reproduce if they were indifferent to giving away the fruits of their labour. Look at areas where property rights are not enforced and you'll find extreme violence and the intense need to build up a reputation of swift and brutal retribution. This is why there is so much violence in the mafia and gang warfare because the government doesn't enforce their right to property because their property is comprised of illegal narcotics so they're forced to enforce it themselves. The same is true in many third world countries where the rule of law is not powerful enough to assert property rights and individuals must take it upon themselves to do so.

It's certainly not just white bourgeousie men who believe in the property right. Ask anyone whether or not they believe they should be entitled to the fruits of their labour and tell me they think it's bunk. I would say "the white bourgeousie" as it is so derogatorily referred to makes up a larger part of the population who sees property rights as a simple abstract concept arising from philosophical egoism with no real moral justification beyond imperialist Eurocentric colonial tradition.
BBanner (203 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
hey, sorry, you're wrong
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
"Also, I am not sure how it is a good deal that we buy food at the exact same price we do now, but that we eliminate our ability to produce it locally."

Its a good deal because we no longer have to subsidise food production, thus saving money
SSReichsFuhrer (145 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
I is poor and i knows the burgoisie. see i is illiterate toos. no seriously i am poor.......
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
Sorry, posted earlier than I wanted there.

@BBanner, you are inane and stupid, seemingly without the capability or desire to form even a single syllogism.
nola2172 (316 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
TGM - The quote of mine that you used was only the first part of what I had to say about that. The second part was far more important.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
"the eventual result will be a foreign monopoly than then charges us a forture for something for which we no longer have the infrasture to support, and as a result, we get screwed in the long run"

You'd choose to buy stocks in those foreign companies. If they then seized them (which would be necessary to cause any harm), you go bomb hell out of them (or take other measures which may or may not be more appropriate) whilst improving links with other foreign states to buy food (unlike oil, food can be grown almost anywhere).

Also, people will still buy fresher, local food than the cheaper but worse foreign food, so it isn't true that the whole industry would collapse.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
@nola, I know, I accidentally pressed "post" before finishing my post
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Apr 10 UTC
Also, Chrispminis +quite a lot.
nola2172 (316 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
TGM - No problem on the early post. And some people would buy local food (and who said the foreign food was worse?), but not enough to support an industry large enough to feed the entire populace in a time of war. Also, you can only buy stock in foreign companies if they let you do so. They would not have to steal it, they could just not offer it for sale to foreigners. Also, if you are the USA, you could get away with offensive military action, but that is harder for most anyone else.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
"(and who said the foreign food was worse?)"

Not as fresh as food bought from the local market.

In a time of war, it would be possible to massively expand production quickly, and massively reduce consumption too.

However, I seriously doubt that there would be the kind of war you are talking about. I'm pretty confident that no nuclear power has had a blockade successfully imposed during a time of war, for pretty obvious reasons.

As I have said earlier though, I am in favour of defense spending. If you prove that roads constitute necessary and/or efficient defense spending, I would support that. I could even accept infringement on the property right in order to protect property rights, though I am still unsure on this point.
BBanner (203 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
It takes a real genius to call someone who notes that "property is the basis of all human rights" is dumb, inane and stupid. I mean I could post a whole shitload of words at you, but you'll never read them, just like you've never read any classical political economy, at least not any of the developments in it. You're a grade-A libertarian hack; I've seen you all before. Your dogged faith in the free market was, as I pointed out before, dumb, and not a whit of a different than someone going to Sunday every week, praying to God to make the rain on his crops. You're an imperialist, colonialist pig, white-skinned pig. You're using your pedantic vocabulary like a first year college student as if it somehow makes anyone here the wiser that you're anything more than a gibbering chimp about economics and the organization of human social relations. Go read some Smith right now, and don't come back until you do.
ReaverNecris (130 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
haaaa. people on this used to actually debate without insults on this.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Apr 10 UTC
Ok, i have an issue with the whole road suggestion.

It is simply geometric.
From point A to point B there is always one shortest distance - thus the first company to buy the route up will get the majority of the bussiness, it doesn't really make much difference what speed limit or road quality the other options have all other routes are longer distances.

This automatically introduces an element of monopoly into all road based transactions - each private company gets a local monopoly with no competition.

It is hugely innefficient to build multiple routes connecting multiple different points. (as each company is trying to connect as many different point in a given area to compete)

A system where only the road users pay for roads makes sense. Bus companies compete for service along the same roads because the can both run on the same road at the same time - direct competition)

So the problem with the current system is the cost of road maintenance - First it can be offered on public tender to the company who offers to do the job at the best price (again competition) - but you still suffer from the city/road manager not caring whether his roads are in good condition - ie value for money spent by the government monopoly.

The customer base lives in a certain area, and HAS to take specific routes everyday - how about local co-operations to run the local road system in any given area, all local road users would be investors in their co-op and thus entitled to vote to replace the management if they felt they were doing a bad job. (require a democratic 'one-person one-vote' system for these investors, and allow any road user use the roads in other co-ops but not vote there.)

TGM is this close enough to privatisation? It allows self-interest of the service users to incentivise the management?

For long distance routes I can imagine multiple private routes and have them in competition with other private services like rail and air making sense. Though it is still only maintenance and infrastructure investment which is an issue (i know Ireland has recently done some public private partnerships which essentially let private companies build bridges and motorways and then these companies get a return on their investment in the form of tolls and automated credit transfers from road users - but i don't see how competition is achieved, each company operating one road is only competing with the public alternatives - usually a longer route on a winding road - sure they have to keep the tolls low to avoid road users cutting down their business***)

There is clearly an argument for rural routes to be government subsidised for security reasons (food security firstly) But allowing local roads users to pay more for their local roads (because there is less of them to using the roads) also makes sense.

***Road users cutting down their business is not good for the economy - basically the infrastructure (transport and communication) allows trade to happen - the increased cost of either of these things hurts trade and thus the entire economy.

Now perhaps increasing the cost would lead to more innovation and eventually lead to better cheaper trading practices (like imagine hover craft, which can run on most any surface, being as cheap as cars but allowing you to reduce the necessary investment in roads! but that is just an example of the ideas which could be tried without a government monopoly distorting the market...)

really i am in two minds about the whole thing.
Chrispminis (916 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
"It takes a real genius to call someone who notes that "property is the basis of all human rights" is dumb, inane and stupid. I mean I could post a whole shitload of words at you, but you'll never read them, just like you've never read any classical political economy, at least not any of the developments in it. You're a grade-A libertarian hack; I've seen you all before. Your dogged faith in the free market was, as I pointed out before, dumb, and not a whit of a different than someone going to Sunday every week, praying to God to make the rain on his crops. You're an imperialist, colonialist pig, white-skinned pig. You're using your pedantic vocabulary like a first year college student as if it somehow makes anyone here the wiser that you're anything more than a gibbering chimp about economics and the organization of human social relations. Go read some Smith right now, and don't come back until you do."

Hahaha, thank you for that. I would actually read your post if you did write one. I take the time to read all posts in a debate as I'm sure others in the community will attest. I never said property was the basis of all human rights, nor do I believe it is so. I was pointing out that property rights was not some abstract concept thought up by white imperialists. I don't take your ad hominem personally because you don't know me. I'm not white, I'm Chinese-Canadian. My parents were both born in China to families that by any textbook qualifies as proletariat.

Also, as anyone who has been around on these forums long enough knows, my views are social progressive, economic conservative, and while I may identify with libertarians, my economic views are not based on a moral imperative but out of practicality and a belief that free markets are genuinely the most effective engines of wealth creation. I think you'll find my views are more nuanced, and I don't believe that the government cannot necessarily improve upon the free market, it's just that the majority of the time they do not because economics is no science and the panoply of variables involved mean that almost certainly many of them go overlooked. I have no problem admitting that I am but a humble university student finishing up his second year. If it interests you, I'm majoring in Neuroscience and minoring in Economics with a particular focus on developmental economics and informal markets. I didn't think that I was using complex vocabulary, and I thought it was apparent that my last paragraph of my previous message was a tongue-in-cheek critique of jargon spouting. You threw white bourgeousie out first! =P

"From point A to point B there is always one shortest distance - thus the first company to buy the route up will get the majority of the bussiness, it doesn't really make much difference what speed limit or road quality the other options have all other routes are longer distances."

Hm, this is not necessarily true since I imagine privatized roads would be tolling. Longer roads might be cheaper than the straight line, or may offer other benefits such as a more scenic route or perhaps out of brand loyalty, presuming roads follow the same trend of many goods and service.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Apr 10 UTC
"This happens annoyingly often, but, I am not an American!" - my sincerest apologies.

?me? said"The argument that communism doesn't work because of "human nature" is in my view fundamentally flawed. "

Chrispminis said: "You would argue that humans do not have an inherent nature? That we are simply Blank Slate results of our environment?" - no, we are genetically pre-determined to be successful in 'nature' which includes being able to help others within our community and being able to hoard our own possessions to survive a lack of food in the winter.

Far from a blank slate - but that doesn't mean communism is impossible to work because of our nature.

Infact you have one example of a communist/stalinist country going into an economic collapse and the people turning to a system which they saw working - you also have a recent example of a capatilist economy collapsing and there being no alternative to turn to - of course an advantage of free markets is that they can replace the businesses which failed with new ones which can earn the confidence of investors - whereas with a state controlled economy you can't - there is no other state to take over and gain the trust of the service users, aka the people....

anyway i digress.

Chrispminis said: "I would actually argue that capitalism does not reward selfishness. Selfishness rewards itself...Capitalism really rewards drive, desire, innovation, intelligence, providing valuable goods and services, etc."

That is a fair an accurate point. And perhaps that is the leading cause of the successful economic growth of Capitalism - it could be argued that communism works on a different system which expects pride in one's country to be the driving force in the economy but then again is it possible that any large enough system of control will limit the innovation of a single person in a way that would never happen in the free market (say society rules that you work here and don't try this new thing because your superiors have decided it is like that... ) hmm, musing...
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Apr 10 UTC
Hm, this is not necessarily true since I imagine privatized roads would be tolling. Longer roads might be cheaper than the straight line"

Please tell me how a company could provide longer roads for less money.

I mean the most efficient USE of the roads is taking the shortest route, how to efficiently maintain the roads may be a different question...
Chrispminis (916 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
Well, this is off the top of my head, but a company could provide longer roads with the idea that it would support a higher volume. Perhaps straight roads might be considered a luxury available at a higher price to those that can afford it. I can definitely see that the company which owns the straight road might charge more to reduce traffic volume thereby reducing the maintenance costs as well as decreasing the travel time for those using the road. In that case, the less than straight roads could offer the cheaper option for the rest of us. I imagine then that the straight road might have fancier gas stations only selling premium gas. =P

Another idea is that a company that owns a series of roads might sell access to them in bundles or monthly/annual packages in which case you might take the longer route simply because you've already paid for it in the bundle that you've chosen.
Chrispminis (916 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
I have no doubt that entrepreneurial minds with actual money invested in roads would have far more imagination than the small effort I put in to come up with just those two.

I'm still not sure privatization of roads is a good idea though.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
I have to pick out what I'm going to respond to atm because of time issues, but:

"you also have a recent example of a capatilist economy collapsing"

No, there is no capitalist economy, if we are discussing laissez-faire.

"pedantic vocabulary"

As if it were a virtue in argument to be complete lax about the meanings of words so that it is impossible to understand!

"Your dogged faith in the free market was, as I pointed out before, dumb, and not a whit of a different than someone going to Sunday every week, praying to God to make the rain on his crops."

If I couldn't offer justifications for my position you would be correct, but both learned Austrians and learned objectivists have made considerable justifications of it that cannot be compared to 'proofs' offered by Christian apologists.

"You're an imperialist, colonialist pig, white-skinned pig."

1. I support the property right, therefore I am not imperialist.
2. I support the property right, therefore I am not a colonialist (in the sense of the Victorians etc.)
3. Pigs tend not to be white-skinned.
KaptinKool (408 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
@Chrispminis - I'm a huge supporter of privatization, roads however are to integral to the very idea of property ownership and too communal to be owned by a company. Roads are a very basic service that really most reasonable people should be able to conclude is better organized and owned by the collective peoples because of its broad benefactors (many of whom don't even use automated transportation).
KaptinKool (408 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
That wasn't very good reasoning, I'm too tired for this now. I will post a better response later.
KaptinKool (408 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
@TheGhostmaker - forgive me for potentially overlooking your response to this. But on your notion that food should be the same as any other commodity and that the lowest price is the best I would certainly have to disagree.

Maintaining a local production chain is intrinsic to the long term well being of any nation. Unlike most commodities food is something every person needs to survive (obviously), and a country should do its best to produce as much food as it can locally rather than to depend on uncertain foreign markets, only seeking out price. In addition it is vital for countries to have high standards for food production, and often reduced prices in imports are seen because these foods can skirt around some of these regulations. I think that the least the government should do is place a tariff on foods coming from nations with less strict food regulations so that cost of production is a level playing field from a health standpoint.

In addition buying food should concern people far more than it does, unfortunately the lower class has abandoned decent food for overly cheap food (at least in America), in order to afford certain unnecessary luxuries such as television cable etc. (surely we can agree that healthy food is more important than these things). I don't know how this problem can be solved, but I don't see a practical market solution.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
Why do my threads always become monsters?

I didn't even post in this more than twice, and not for days... last time I saw it it was 5 responses and dead, and not at ALL about anything CLOSE to these topics.

What HAPPENED???
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
(Aside from the Klingon ship being totally screwed over by V'Ger in Star Trek: The Motion Picture on my TV right now... old cassette...)
leaf (103 D)
12 Apr 10 UTC
“The issue is that no person can possibly calculate what is economically perfect, nobody has sufficient knowledge of what each individual in the world actually needs, and how to provide it. Thus a price mechanism is necessary” – TheGhostmaker

Ah Star Trek - now there's an example for “economically perfect” communist styled society. A self-sustaining, non-economy …wait I think that might be a bit of an oxymoron, perhaps someone could describe this better than me.

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310 replies
joey1 (198 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Canada or US which one is more "Pro-life"
In the general atmosphere of this forum I thought that I would ask the question - Which country is more pro-life in its entire outlook

[Warning this may be seen as a challenge to American Republicans]
13 replies
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taylank (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Gunboat in 20 mins
5 replies
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taylank (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Gunboat starting in 15
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26696
2 replies
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