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Thucydides (864 D(B))
14 Apr 10 UTC
Okay, look.
I want to apologize.
50 replies
Open
KaptinKool (408 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Gunboat-72 - To all players.
Good game all :-)
1 reply
Open
Emperor Ming (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Not Allowing Some Convoys
In a WW4 game...
3 replies
Open
The Dream (765 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Live Gunboat game in 20 mins
Live gunboat in 20 mins need 3 more http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26747
2 replies
Open
lulzworth (366 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
God and Sin
I've noticed in a lot of the religiously oriented threads that it comes up (as in "What if God killed himself?") that God, being perfect, cannot do certain things (like kill himself) on the basis that they are sins. I wanted to offer some extended analysis of this contention...
lulzworth (366 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
So God*: Can he sin? From what I've noticed this argument tends to proceed as follows:
Theist: God is perfect, he cannot sin - ergo, he does not lie, murder, steal, etc.

Skeptic: But God is all-powerful! What? You mean, he ISN'T ALL POWERFUL BECAUSE HE CAN'T LIE? OH YEAH TAKE THAT RELIGIOUS IDIOT.

Theist: Uh, oh, uh, shit. I mean, ok look: God is PERFECT, so it is not that he lacks the capacity to sin, just in his perfection he never would. While these are contingently identical situations, the inability to sin and the unwillingness to sin are meaningfully distinct enough that I consider this a solution to your question.


Now, despite my somewhat cheeky portrayal of the Skeptic**, I do agree with his general point: That there is something wrong with this notion that God cannot sin. However, I also have to agree with the theist: God cannot sin. But, I think, God can lie, murder, steal, or do anything he can (which, by definition, is everything).

Let me explain:

We have to start by defining what it means to "sin". In more technical terminology, sin is a theological term for normative failing: That is, falling short of normative standards. For those of you unfamiliar, normative standards are best understood as moral standards stemming from a JUSTIFIED source that carries the authority to actually determine rules of behavior: They are what one "ought" to do. So, if one "ought not steal", it is normative consistency not to steal, if one does steal, they have committed a normative failure - that is, done what they "ought" not do. This is a sin.

For humans in a theological universe, this is fairly straight-forward: God is the creator of the Universe, and you and so he gets to set normative standards (taking away the trickier question of "is there such a thing as normative judgement?" Since we're talking theology here, we'll say there is and God gets absolute control of them). Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not stick it in your neighbor's daughter, etc.

If you follow these rules, you're a normative success. Fail to, and you've breached what you "ought" to do, and you've sinned. Since God is just, he punishes sinners - those who did what they ought not to have.

If you're following thus far, you probably have this basic mental sketch: Morality, in normative standards, is some sort of line or shaded area defined by some source (God, here). If your actions fall on the line or in the shaded area, you're being moral. If they fall out, you're not. One's own moral standing is determined by HOW CLOSELY THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR MATCHES THE MORAL LINE/AREA. A one-to-one match, obviously, is perfection.

Now, lets talk about God: at this point, the picture becomes a little bit less certain, but it also brings about how I think God gets to be a lying, stealing murderer and still be "perfect".

My argument is this: God creates normative standards. In fact, he doesn't just create them: he IS them. When one says, "God is good", it isn't meant synthetically: that is, God doesn't happen to have the characteristic of goodness, rather, it is, for more religious people, definitional: God IS good, and good IS God: they are one and the same. God created the Universe, its rules, and Lords over all of it. What "Good" is is defined by him: for their to be a set of normative standards outside of or above God would be to contradict the premise that God is the original and supreme being.

This leads to a simple conclusion: Any action God takes is morally correct. If normative success is judged by approximation of behavior to the normative zone, then God - as the normative zone itself - cannot be anything but a perfect success. A sin for God's children to kill but not for God to kill? Sure: if God has it that way, that is the law. God says he won't lie one minute then lies the next? Again - you cannot, strictly speaking, call this anything but perfection unless as a religious person you are prepared to dispute the notion that God's judgement and will are supreme: unless you want to say, essentially, that God doesn't get ultimate say over moral law and that God can be wrong. The notion that the rules for God are different from those for people is obvious on its own (think of parents and children, or that jealousy is a sin but God admits to being a jealous God), but taking a step further I see not theologically consistent way to defend anything but the position that any action God takes is morally upright by definition.

In short: No action can be deemed a normative failure by the being whose behavior is definitionally associated as the standard of normativity.

*Judeo-Christian God, obviously.
** For the record, I do not believe in God. I simply intend this as a logical exploration with some pre-determined assumptions (those of the standard beliefs about God in western religion).

*** For deduction buffs, here's that whole rant in an easier to follow form:
(i) Normative standards are strictly defined such that for every p some action x either is consistent with p or inconsistent with p.
(ii) Inconsistency with p is deemed normative failure, and consistency with p normative success.
(iii) God created everything, is the original being, and his judgement is supreme and original.
(iv) By (iii), God created normative standards and is their justifying source.
(v) By (iv), Any x(god) is p, when all p are defined as x(god).
(vi) No x can be both p and not p.
THEREFORE
(vii) All actions by God are normatively upright by definition.
lulzworth (366 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
Also: Please, please remember - ALL OBJECTIONS must either dispute the validity of one of my premises or argue that my conclusion does not follow from those premises. Objections along invalid lines will be ignored.
Chrispminis (916 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
I already raised this point in the thread, albeit on less formal terms.
"Objections along invalid lines will be ignored."

Now that's amusing. Thanks for the chuckle.
SteevoKun (588 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
I'd just like to add some additional information concerning Christian dogma that makes this issue somewhat clearer. This is based on pre-Protestant theology and is generally accepted by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches at the very least, as well as some of the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

God (the Trinity) is an entirely spiritual being - unlike man, who is both spiritual and material. Material beings are capable of change, as change is possible in the material world (with time and such) and can "pollute" the spiritual reality of a being that is both spiritual and material. This is how the Fall from Grace was possible and why man is capable of both good and evil acts - even an individual man.

Spiritual beings (such as God and angels - I believe angels are considered in this way similar to God in nature according to Christian dogma) are static beings. While man can be good one moment and evil another, spiritual beings are either one or the other from the beginning of their existence (obviously Christian dogma doesn't allow for the concept of a beginning of God's existence).

The static nature of God the Trinity is what defines his inability to sin, because moral law is based on God's static spiritual nature.

It's not that the moral law changes if God does something immoral, but rather that it is metaphysically impossible for God to do something immoral as a result of His spiritual nature, which is perfect.

As you said, "God is good" is not a synthetic statement; likewise, it is not the case that God legislates (so to speak) moral law, but the moral law simply is - it follows from God's nature (one could make a similar argument for logic, though that's outside the scope of this discussion and has no basis in Christian theology as far as I'm aware).
@ lulz

As far as the basic argument I find little at fault in your reasoning. The conclusion that God is good, and therefore any action taken by God is perfect, by definition, is valid as well.

You seem to take liberties with this at one point in the conclusion (and it seems to be the only more or less flippant remark in the post. As a result, you categorize God as a lying stealing murderer who still gets to be perfect. At this point you seem to have abandoned the logic in order to put in a couple of phrases that are emotionally charged. My responses to these are this:

A: As to the idea that God is a liar. I'd have to get a scriptural reference as that's a new one for me. I'd like to see the basis for this accusation, so as far as that one goes I'll reserve the right to respond when I've seen the evidence.

B: As to the idea that God is a thief. Stealing implies taking something that is rightfully the property of another. The context of the argument seemed to assumes that God exists and is the creator and source of all things. If that is so then it does not matter what God takes away. He is no more stealing than you or I would be if we came to retrieve the scissors we'd loaned our neighbor. Humans are not physically immortal. Any physical thing that God gives a human is understood to be a loan as none (or very few) of us expect to own our physical things after our deaths.

C) As to the idea that God is a murderer. Murder is likewise the unlawful taking of a life. Soliders, judges, and executioners are not tried as murderers if they faithfully and lawfully carry out their duties. As man can neither pass nor enforce laws that affect God there is no way to consider anything that he does unlawful. As a result, even a lightnining bolt from Heaven is not a murder. Even in that unlikely case how are we to know that the killing of that person was not entirely justified?
pastoralan (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
SteevoKun has an interesting take. It's possible to imagine hypothetical moral laws different from the ones we have--just like it's possible to imagine hypothetical physical laws. But the laws of the universe, once set, are permanently established. So your point might be theoretically correct but practically useless. This argument was actually outlined by William of Occam (the Occam's Razor guy, who had a lot of other interesting ideas that were flat-out freaky in the 1300s).

I think a more appropriate argument comes from the idea of analogy. Human beings have ideas about good that are not identical, but are also not random. Most theists would say that these ideas are derived from God. When we say God is good, we're saying something more than that God sets an arbitrary pattern...our definition of "good" actually has something to do with God's nature.
lulzworth (366 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
@Steevo - While your reasoning follows up to a point, I have to take issue with your baseless claim that follow moral laws that exist outside of God is part of his nature. I would ask you then to give me the normative basis of law in Christian dogma. You do accept the premise that God is the creator and proceeds all, correct? And you would agree that laws pertain to a given system, correct? And that, of course, there are no laws that govern absolutely nothing - they would have neither form nor application.

From there, it seems difficult to take issue with the notion that God, as preceding all and being Lord over all, must then be not just a being of, but the source of moral law. As he gave form to all and actualizes all things, the normative laws that govern them must be his will. Perhaps those laws do not change, but this is contingent. That God must be the source (and therefore strictly incapable of breaking) those laws is a necessity from those premises.


@Anglican - No emotional charge intended. I just felt as if using actions that are strongly associated with sin made the clearest case: Of course, God can forget to return your call as well and still be perfect, but murdering, lying and stealing make the case clearer. As to your points:

B) Fair enough. Property laws do not apply to God - you can derive that without recourse to my argument, although mine would get to it in a similar way by arguing that if God deems what was not his now his, then it is and it is perfectly moral that it should be so.

C) Same argument. Except I don't even have to ask if it was justified, by definition, if God did it is just. For my own part, the inescapability of that point is where I find the absurdity in Christian dogma, but I suppose if one believes God exists then this point is inescapable and if God so deems that worship is necessary then it is, again, by definition so.

A) There is no evidence, necessarily. My point is only that should God lie - as in, make a statement and then contradict it in later statement or action - the normative deviation that this implies for humans would not apply to God by the general reasoning of the argument.
Another definition of sin, is any action or indeed any thought that separates you from God. It's very similar to your argument that God is good. Union with God is the ideal that a Christian strives for, fails to accomplish, and then for that must rely on God.

As to the above references, it seems that you are stating that any action made by God is by definition perfect. The definition of perfect gets a little sticky there. If we are to say that God I without fault (ie perfect) then what would we make of a situation in which God had choices to make that were of varying values. He would choose the best one, and be perfect inasmuch as he did the chose perfectly. It does not follow that the choice itself is necessarily perfect, only God. The choice was merely the best one available. That sorta leads us into discussing omnipotence and omniscience without the benefit of omniscience ourselves though.
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Silly mortals and your logic! Don't you see? God is infinite! Your puny logic need not apply to Him for it was He who created the very logic by which you seek to understand Him! He could say "I am lying" and be telling the truth! And this is but the smallest of contradictions, the greater ones have never occurred to man!

Know this, mortals!

Logic cannot confine Him! Your words cannot define Him! Cast off your body! For there is not enough room in God's infinite domain, you will have to leave it behind! Cast off your soul! For it will never reach the other side of God's infinitesimal domaine, you will have to leave it behind!

Faith alone will call Him to you, and He will take you into his boundless bosom, and you will know Him!

Also, He doesn't approve of gay marriage!
PURCELL (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
love the ending! ;) and I think it's totally true, the God of the Bible does not say gay marriage is okay in any way shape or form! but this isn't along the lines or this thread or whatever so it should be completely ignored! ;)
lulzworth (366 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
@Crazy: I think you're missing the point again. Any decision he'd make would be the correct one. You're making the same mistake that many Christians self-defeatingly fall into. In order for you to coherently say that God could (even if he never would) be even ABLE to make a choice that you could describe as not the best, or the perfect choice you MUST be appealing to extra-theological sense of normativity. BUT, if you want to maintain (as your faith demands) that God is a priori to all substance and metaphysics, then you have to concede that "good" is only defined as "that which God deems good".

@Chrisp: Point taken.
pastoralan (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Lulz, seems like you haven't at all answered the argument that "good" is defined as "that which God *has deemed* good."
lulzworth (366 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
@pastoralan - I actually argued for a stricter definition, whereby given the assumptions of Christian theology, the statement "God is good" was analytic. I think I did make the argument because in the sense of logical priority, "deemed good" and "good" are co-referential - if God deems it good, so be it, but given that god is (a) omnipotent and (b) perfect, not only is any action he takes good, but he can also change what he deems good at any time.

However the argument basically goes like this:
(i) for any p, if p->q then not q->p in logical priority.
(ii) God proceeds all objects of experience and all formal modes of experience.
(iii) Normative law is a mode of experience.
(iv) By (ii) and (iii), God created normative law, and by (i), normative law cannot proceed God.
(v) God has absolute control over his creations.
(vi) God is omnipotent.
(vii) By (v) and (vi), God has absolute control over normative law, and God is capable of doing anything to and with normative law.
(viii) God always follows normative law, by a basic axiom of theology.
(ix) To follow something requires that one never come in conflict with it.
(x) By (ix), for God to not be perfect would be for God to fail to follow normative law.
(xi) By (vii) God may change normative law at any time in any way.
THEREFORE
(xii) The only limit imposed by (viii) is that God never act contrary to existing normative law without first changing it, however, by (xi) he may do so at any time in anyway, and so there are no case limits on Gods behavior.
THEREFORE
(xiii) God is both incapable of sin and capable of taking any action, including that subset which constitutes mortal sin.


I hope that allows you to understand that the argument is still valid even without the analytic component, and based on the notion that God creates normative law but that it is not definitionally identical to him. I think to dispute this formulation of the argument, you would have to claim that once created, God cannot change normative law, which would directly contradict the premise that God is omnipotent - one of the assumptions we received as an axiom.

Although there are debates about the definition of omnipotence (for example, God cannot make p both x and not x at the same time, some contend) these strict metaphysical limitations don't apply to notions like "God can deem y immoral at time T1, then make y moral at time T2 and commit y at time T3".
Okay, I see where you're going. In the notation there is a shift from being the creator and justifying source of normative standards to God actually being the normative standards. Does it really follow that God is synonymous with the normative standard (work with me here as I'm getting used to the notation)? I do not see a basis for that leap in your notation.
**I was referring to iv and v**
lulzworth (366 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
@Crazy: I'm using the notion of God being both the objective and formal source of normativity coupled with his omnipotence to claim that he cannot violate a standard which he is the source of. However, if you find this problematic, refer to the argument I just gave @past, since it makes the same point without this leap by demonstrating that due to God's absolute control over normativity, even if it is a separate object then, unless you want to call into question God's omnipotence or logical priority over normative law, he is capable of changing it at any time and still therefore simultaneously capable of all action and incapable of sin.
warsprite (152 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
God is good and anything does is good, because he is God. Does that sum it up?
lulzworth (366 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
@warsprite - Essentially, but in more technical language.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@Lulzworth

"The static nature of God the Trinity is what defines his inability to sin, because moral law is based on God's static spiritual nature."

In saying the above, I was attempting to point out the Christian dogma that God is incapable of change (for example, Apostolic Christianity dogmatically declares that Jesus Christ became "man without change," because His nature could not change due to his taking on the material form of the incarnation as a result of the fact He is God and God is static). Because of this, the moral law that exists based on God is static and could not be any other way - God's morality is not metaphysically capable of change, since he is without change and that morality is based on Him.

Keep in mind Christianity teaches God knows and sees all - even all things in the future - so the following line of reasoning you state is basically irrelevant, since there was a system God was aware of before He created that system.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@Lulzworth

"The static nature of God the Trinity is what defines his inability to sin, because moral law is based on God's static spiritual nature."

In saying the above, I was attempting to point out the Christian dogma that God is incapable of change (for example, Apostolic Christianity dogmatically declares that Jesus Christ became "man without change," because His nature could not change due to his taking on the material form of the incarnation as a result of the fact He is God and God is static). Because of this, the moral law that exists based on God is static and could not be any other way - God's morality is not metaphysically capable of change, since he is without change and that morality is based on Him.

Keep in mind Christianity teaches God knows and sees all - even all things in the future - so the line of reasoning you present about the lack of a system before creation is basically irrelevant, since there was a system God was aware of before He created that system - yes, it obviously defies logic, but if we're talking about the Christian God this Christian dogma is essential to our discussion.

The static nature of the moral law is contingent upon God's static nature, just as the existence of the moral law itself is contingent upon God's existence. The moral law, in Christian theology, is eternal and preexists creation. Even before creation, God was already perfectly just and moral, since his attributes are in no way dependent upon His creation.

God is the basis of the moral law, but it's not a law that He decided to proclaim at some point - the moral law follows necessarily (in Christian theology) from the moral nature of God, who is perfect and static.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Sorry for the double post, apparently my computer decided to submit my post before I finished it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
"moral nature of God, who is perfect and static."

If God is both perfect and static, then he is a paradox within himself. For a perfect being would be flexible, able to adapt based on reality. Being Static like a book means being unable to adapt to the realities all around. We have enough of that in the Bible and the Constitution to show that was is perfect at one point in time ceases to be perfect and has issues at a later point in time.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@Draugnar

Like I said in response to lulzworth earlier, if we're talking about the Christian God we can't eliminate Christian dogma (e.g. that God is both perfect and static) from the situation - if you'd like to go into Rabbinic Jewish thinking that's fine, but I'm speaking from an Apostolic Christian point of view.

Just like a perfect square can remain static and perfect (if it changes, then it's no longer a prefect square), so is God perfectly static and statically perfect.

Keep in mind, there's not a world within which He operates, but only a world which He created, so He doesn't have conditions to adapt to - time doesn't even apply to God the way it does to man, since God is eternal and without change.
lulzworth (366 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@Steevo - In that case, we resort to the argument that any action God takes is moral - not that he controls external norms (the argument I prefer anyway), being a being who at T1 does not steal and who at T2 does is still static, since time distinctions are subsumed under the predicate, and because time isn't really a formal category for an omniscient being, making the concept of being "static" pretty empty.

Also - static? Really? From a non-philosophical point of view, that really seems at odds with specific Biblical instances of God taking altered courses of acton (creates humanity, drowns humanity, etc.) You can claim that was the plan all along, but then you need to accept normative alterations as a potential part of that plan as well.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@lulzworth

In your original post you say: "God is good and good is God," in reference to moral norms. And yes, any action God takes is moral, but not because God can break the rules and not be a rule breaker. Having an immoral God would be like having a square circle - it's just not possible (obviously, in the Christian worldview from which I'm arguing).

Any concept man uses to describe God is essentially empty, since we can only describe how He is not like us or give Him God-level versions of our own characteristics (e.g., omniscience takes our ability to perceive and puts it on a God-level, by including everything; while God has a quality that we describe in this way, saying that He is omniscient is really just man's way of describing God's transcendent, non-temporal perspective on the world in which we live).

All man can really do when it comes to trying to dissect God's actions over time is consider possibilities based on man's experience - Rabbinic Judaism is very big on this, and comes up with some very interesting ideas about things such as why certain mitzvot exist and why certain things happened (midrash).

God exists on a level man can't fathom, to the point we couldn't even begin to read the rulebook to the game He's playing (metaphorically speaking), let alone understand those rules. The fact God is static is necessary, otherwise change over time would mean God is not the sort of eternal, omniscient being Christianity teaches He is.
Draugnar (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@Steevo - you makes assumptions with regards to Christianity. Don't assume that all Christians (or for that matter a majority of Christians) share that common "static" view of God. We don't.
nola2172 (316 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Draugnar - What SteevoKun states is more or less a summation of the views on the nature of God that the "orthodox" branches of Christianity believe (Catholics, Orthodox, and probably some of the Protestants, though I don't really know which ones). Since the Catholics and Orthodox by themselves make up a majority of Christianity, that would mean that a majority of Christians (at least by affiliation) support the definition of God as eternal and unchanging that is explained in a lot more detail here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@ Draugnar

From my first post:

"This is based on pre-Protestant theology and is generally accepted by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches at the very least, as well as some of the Oriental Orthodox Churches."

While I was raised Protestant, I don't know enough about any single (let alone the multitude) or different Protestant beliefs to speak on those, so I did purposely stay away from that. I've been speaking in this argument from the Catholic perspective, which is essentially identity on the Orthodox perspective on these issues - as far as I know, obviously I could be wrong I'm not a member, let alone theologian, of the Orthodox Church.

I'm also trying to stay as close to Apostolic orthodox dogma as possible.
SteevoKun (588 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
@nola

Thanks for the link!

Excellent article, I'd suggest it to anyone interested in this discussion, especially the part on "Immutability," which is about halfway down the page.


30 replies
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
live gunboat
in 45 minutes: gameID=26728
3 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
2 more for a gunboat
live in 8 minutes: gameID=26735
0 replies
Open
rlumley (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
I can't send messages in my games...
WTF?
5 replies
Open
dave bishop (4694 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
"All My Friends Know That It Keeps The Bad Thoughts"
This high pot, gunboat WTA game just finished.
Hopefully the players involved can give their thoughts about what was an interesting game.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=22383
2 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Player Needed
A player is needed to fill-in for a final game in the TMG Masters' tournament.
Reply to this post if you are interested

Ghost
11 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
15 Apr 10 UTC
The Irish Secret service.
...
6 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
gunboat live
starts in one hour: gameID=26731
10 replies
Open
joey1 (198 D)
13 Apr 10 UTC
Need to go for 3 days
Hello, I am going to be away from Thursday evening (EST) to Sunday evening (EST) with no access to the internet. Is there someone who is able to babysit my games. I am going to try to get them to pause, but I know that does not always work.

Joey
4 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
15 Apr 10 UTC
Better End Of Game message needed
The game has ended: You survived until the end, but because this is a winner takes
all game you got no points returned. Better luck next time!
18 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Hellifield Peel Castle http://bit.ly/bwjfVf
This was featured on the UK TV program "Grand Designs", which follows people who are building themselves homes.

It is gorgeous, isn't it?
1 reply
Open
Panthers (470 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Live Medi. in 13 minutes........
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26725
1 reply
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
gunboat game starting soon
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Make Up The Lyrics As We Go!
One line per post, and match the rhythym of the original tune.

First...
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
All Rise, Caps Off For April 15th- Jackie Robinson's Anniversary!
Happy Jackie Robinson Day! On this day 63 years ago on April 15th, 1947, Jackie Robinson played his first game (at 1st Base, not his usual 2nd Base) for the Brooklyn Dodgers becoming the first African American to play Major League Baseball, breaking the Color Barrier and starting so much: a round of applause for #42- JACKIE ROBINSON!
0 replies
Open
dontbcruel (175 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Ancient Game Going
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26697

Play it old skool, kids.
0 replies
Open
Jimbozig (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
live gunboat
in 10: gameID=26694
7 replies
Open
`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` (1922 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Nuther Gunboat
2 replies
Open
taylank (100 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
WTA live gunboat
3 replies
Open
ReaverNecris (130 D)
15 Apr 10 UTC
Superiority Complexes. They need to die.
I mean really whether it's mac vs pc or ps3 vs xbox or anything like that people always say: "Oh this is so much better than THAT because of this and this and this and you are retarded for THINKING OTHERWISE"
I have nothing personal against Apple but I have a couple friends that constantly go on and on about how a mac is so much better. I've used a mac before and I don't see it.
10 replies
Open
Stukus (2126 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Favorite Words
My favorite English word is "sleeping dictionary." It means, "a foreign woman with whom a man has a sexual relationship and from whom he learns her language." What are your favorite words?
45 replies
Open
5nk (0 DX)
15 Apr 10 UTC
2 Live WTA Gunboats
gameID=26701 - starting in 1 hr
gameID=26702 - starting in 2 hrs
5 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Apr 10 UTC
A Witch! A Commie! A Metagamer!
Seriously, its like Salem or the Red Scare, all these accusations all the time... yeesh!
310 replies
Open
joey1 (198 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Canada or US which one is more "Pro-life"
In the general atmosphere of this forum I thought that I would ask the question - Which country is more pro-life in its entire outlook

[Warning this may be seen as a challenge to American Republicans]
13 replies
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taylank (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
WTA Gunboat in 20 mins
5 replies
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taylank (100 D)
14 Apr 10 UTC
Gunboat starting in 15
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=26696
2 replies
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