I'd like clarifications on your "scum buddies blatantly voting each other" point regarding civwarbuff. I can't find two players acting as you described. I've previously stated my belief that his comment wasn't a pivot largely because of there being nothing to pivot from, but clearly you see something I don't.

Regarding Balduran, I feel like this is precisely the kind of "some newbie has said something stupid and there's already a bunch of votes on them for it" situation goldfinger previously described. The poor lad's got maybe 3 -4 lifetime mafia games, unless he's been playing without my knowledge, which is possible. That being said, his behavior has been worth some observation, but I ask for some leniency on his behalf this very first day of his first forum game.

On that note, I will comment that our "excess interaction" stems from our prior acquaintance.

I can't comment much on meta reads, as I've not read a single prior mafia game on this forum. I do wish to hear more from Tom Bombadil, who's pinging on my radar.

@MoscowFleet that was in response to brainbomb's first soundcloud, in which he accused me of scummy behavior. As I've said I've reviewed none of you guys' previous games, and that comment is made purely from personal experience.

Speaking of people speaking without contribution, Floodgate.

@rdrivera I am taking a leap of faith on you. if you are scum again that would be a horrendous 5/6 games. I just hope for your sake you get to be town this time. Its annoying to be the same thing over and over. How do you feel? you got your joke vote in on guak. You get to have a lighthearted moment there finally where it isnt calculated. (again, crossing my fingers).

Having been scum so many times lately, teach us some things rivera. what was the QT like last few games, what did scum do to hide? how did you coordinate who talked and when? did you guys all post on the same pages or scatter. did you ever pile onto a wagon or fan out.

using gamblers fallacy here, lets be honest, if Rivera is scum AGAIN that means he is literally rolling almost at an 80% or higher scum-town ratio. thats astronomical to think about considering ive not been scum in 10 games now.

anyways I look forward to working with you, and hope you have some brilliant insights into what the current/recent scum meta/vibes have been and how we can use your past experiences to catch them all.

I would say his chance of being mafia again is 5/21. Is there really any good reason for town to attempt to pocket another town?

But whether you're town or mafia, I too would enjoy hearing your insight. Also good night, folks. I hope to see some vibrant activity tomorrow.

And my first paragraph from my post #122 is directed at you brainbomb, in case that wasn't clear.

"scum buddies blatantly voting each other" (I do believe I answered it. I dont need to know whom yet; because if civ war is scum the pathway will clear)

I said it could be you and baldurans interacting. Or jamie voting meme. Could be maniac voting moscow. Could be tom asking the bizarre underwear stuff.

Thought is that balduran saw brain questioning his scum buddy Jamie and thought he had to say something, and what he said ended up being a jumbled, horrible hedge. Let's say he's town. Why would he say Jamie seems like himself when he has no idea how Jamie really is?

Like I'm a bit reluctant to push any newb hard after what happened with RIke a few games ago, but I'm still going to question them and if I think they're scum, I'll lynch them too. I've just got to remember to not tunnel and keep an open mind and feel free to call me out if you think I'm tunnelling so I can step back and reassess.

Also I reread civawarbuff and yeah, he never mentioned anywhere why he said "so anyways", which I agree was very odd. Don't like him dodging the question.

@Gold/Snowy sure, we should cut newbs slack, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be questioned and/or they should be immune from day 1 lynch. They're just as likely to be scum as anyone else, new or not.

@brainbomb, I feel like I was preaching to the choir since you're the only one who was actually trying to get discussion moving in a productive area. There's lots of people who've yet to make a serious vote. The majority, actually. Also, your one vote on civwarbuff doesn't equal a bunch of votes, so my point still stands.

As for civwarbuff's comment, you have to ask yourself this
1) Is civwarbuff just an awkward person?
2) Would a new mafia player (he is new, right? I haven't played with him for sure) assume that they have to immediately steer questioning away from their buddies?

The answers to those two questions will lead you to a conclusion. If you're leaning to a yes on #2, my hunch would be moreso on he balduran and snowy interaction. Personally, I lean towards a yes on #1, since that's the case probably 80% of the time.

When asked why he said ("so anyway")
Civwarbuff: "Was the game not starting? Was that not my first comment in the thread?"

Is there anything in the signup thread that would be relevant/important to know?

"On buddying, I do pride myself on being honest, but it shouldn't be an issue in mafia, since I won't have reason to make promises or make objective claims."

Also if any of you ever find yourself moving to Saskatchewan, pick Sasktel home Internet because Access is just complete shit.

^so will you ever have any reason to promise us you are town? Or objectively claim any town role? This sounds like admission of being godfather.

X-post moscow. That quote is balduran page 3

@Moscow - I'm not saying cut them complete slack, but only once while I played have we hit scum successfully on D1 based off of one of those newb interactions, and that was the hilariously short newb mafia game. Every other time, we get them to break D1 and either lynch them right away for it, or allow mafia to bring it back later as a reason to lynch them. But for now I will say barring the most obvious scum slip imaginable, I will not be voting for a new player D1.

"Is there anything in the signup thread that would be relevant/important to know?"

I dislike bringing the signup thread into the game

"since I won't have reason to make promises or make objective claims."
What the fuck does that even mean?

@gold you start by saying you won't cut them complete slack and then end by saying you basically will. What changes day 2 that you'll vote for a newb then but not day 1?

Also sometimes signup thread has stuff you need to know. Since everyone is acting like it's common knowledge, I'm assuming it was mentioned in signups that snowy and balduran know each other? I just wanted to know if there was anything else because I'm too lazy to go read it myself.

(turns out I have problems going to bed)

Yes, sorry. When you said each other I thought you were saying there was a mutual vote.

And as to newbies, what you say is of course true but I'm just saying their tells are not nearly as reliable for scumreads, since they are prone to error regardless of alignment. But I'll leave it at that.

I still think your underwear fixation is off point. Boxers or briefs is a common personality assessment question at least here in the US. Though it now occurs to me that you could all be from any parts of the world.

I think bo's vote on Ezio, if serious, is not without basis. He's made some odd comments, mainly the "vulnerable to buddying" part.

At this point, I'd like to ask everyone for their opinion on brainbomb's personality. I don't have a scumread on him, but since he clearly intends to lead discussion I think this information is important.

Yes, we mentioned it in the sign up thread. The only other pertinent information I can recall is that guak got subbed out by you (but surely you know this) and I'd also like to ask who ghug is, and whether he's actually in this game under another name or if people are being confused again.

"You start by saying you won't cut them complete slack and then end by saying you basically will."

No, I start by saying I won't cut them complete slack, and I end by saying I won't vote for them. That doesn't mean I won't question them if I see something suspicious. But what changes by D2? About 72 hours of experience. We can see if they grow naturally or if their behavior is radically changed after N1. Also, look at our past record of lynching them D1. Its all-in-all really pretty terrible.

Balduran doesnt like lying. But lying wont be an issue here for him because he has no promises to make or objective claims. So hes admitting hes scum or vt yes?

Hes saying either hes not afraid to be scanned or hes not afraid of being scumread for buddying.

##Unend
##Vote Balduran

brainbomb, are you listening to what you're saying? "So he's admitting he's scum or VT, yes"

That's like 90% of the options in this setup! Why, do you want to find out if he's one of our two PRs?

Closer to 80%, but regardless I think his point was that there are no alliances in mafia so he doesn't explicitly have to promise anyone anything, unlike in, say, diplomacy. But I'll let him speak for himself when he wakes up.

I'd like to reiterate my desire to hear more about brainbomb's base personality.

^^^is that really something we should be deducting?? That's almost as bad as that newb last game who wrote a detailed explanation of which PR each person could be at night.

Gold, I think I can agree to disagree. The bad track record is from a ridiculously small sample size, and like, is it any better than our day 2 track record lunching newbs? Or day 3? Etc. But I do see and understand where you're coming from, especially having been mislynched myself in my first game.

Yea it is something to deduce. Id rather not lynch a possible PR. He definetely just said he has nothing to objectively claim nor promises to uphold.

Thats either a scum claim or a piss poor vt claim which lends itself to being scum.