Doesn't strike me as reasonable - just like football, religion is not inherently bad and in fact most religions try to discourage such behavior. Muslims or Christians fighting and killing non-believers just because they are non-believers actually goes against the fundamentals of their religions.

And all of this violence is political, and tribal in nature.

So long a there is more to be gained from violence than from peace, it will continue.

Whether you are the US/west or Russia/China playing an international game of influence; or if you are Iran/Saudi Arabia playing a regional geo-political game, or you are ISIS/The PKK/Hezbollah or other militias, playing a local game.

So long as there is something worth fighting over, the fight will continue.

There is always something worth fighting over, especially if you don't have it.

Props to this thread for actually turning to a constructive topic and respectfully working on it.

@orathaic: It's much simpler than that. If kids don't stop fighting over something, you take the thing away and they've got no reason left to find. It's the same with football.

Logic is as follows: Football match -> They riot -> Football costs too much -> No football

Thanks to the riots, football matches are too expensive/dangerous so we cut down on them. It's just a happy coincidence that supporters will stop rioting if they ever want to see football again.

Steephie - the problem with your analysis is that 100 'fans' may riot but that stops millions of peaceful fans from enjoying their sport if you close stadiums (stadia). You then end up with millions of people disgruntled with those who seek to control the game - usually govt.

It should be noted that the peaceful fans can no more control the hooligans than peaceful muslims/christians etc can control their extremists. However, the peaceful fans and moderate religious people can be drawn into the cycle of violence if outsiders condemn the actions of the group as a whole, rather than condemning the acts of the few. People can get very defensive when their group is accused. it doesn;t matter if the group is a family, a street, a nation, a class or a religion.

Perhaps the answer to these problems lie in breaking down how we self identify. If we stop identifying ourselves as white, English, Christian etc we are less inclined to then label others which can cause resentment.

You're not punishing them per se though - you just consider the costs/risks for a game unacceptable as long as there are riots.

Regardless of your intention, the effect is that peaceful fans are 'punished' for something over which they have no control. Collective punishments, which this amounts to, are actually banned under the Geneva Convention - true story.

The clubs are being punished. The fans are collateral damage.

And what can the clubs do to prevent hooliganism particularly outside the ground?

Club can, should and do ban identified hooligans from entering the grounds.
Moderate fans should ostracize hooligans who cause trouble for their club.

The Islamic State executed 12 Christians, including a 12-year-old boy, after they refused to abandon their faith and convert to Islam. The murders occurred on August 28 outside of Aleppo, Syria.
Followers of the Religion of cut them to Pieces just following their instruction manual. Move along. Nothing to see.
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"

Lets hope the Russians can stop the murder of innocents.

ISIS killed plenty of Christians, Sunni Muslims who spoke out against them, and Shiites.
Stop man, just stop

At the very least, I appreciate that this guy is willing to express his bigotry toward Islam openly and based on its theology as opposed to veiling it as a high-moral-ground plea to stop ISIS and other terrorist organizations. At least he's willing to stand up for his bigotry as opposed to hiding behind it.

Ignorant and proud

Seriously - where do you guys get off calling him a bigot? his view is different and he has attempted to support it with some kind of foundation.

You calling him a bigot only unmasks your own intolerance of a diversity of beliefs - automatically assuming a position of superiority.

Get off you high horses - and start espousing the freedoms you obviously don't want to yield to others, whilst freely enjoying it yourselves.

His beliefs are irrelevant in this - you cannot simply pick and choose whether you are tolerant or not, issue by issue. You either are, or you are not.

Its fine to find his belief system personally abhorrent - I'm sure many do - but that is not grounds for branding him a bigot.

You might as well call someone who actually believes there is a difference between boys and girls misogynists.

So please leave off the harassment and name calling.

Besides which the discussion was supposed to be about Russia and Syria wasn't it?

"You calling him a bigot only unmasks your own intolerance of a diversity of beliefs - automatically assuming a position of superiority."

I freely and proudly admit to being bigoted towards people who openly advocate the slaughter of over a billion people. Especially while they freely confess their own ignorance on the matter they believe makes these people deserving of extermination.

"but that is not grounds for branding him a bigot." No, no, the grounds to do so were him calling for the forced conversion of all, over a billion, Muslims to Christianity.

I'm calling him a bigot because I happen to be Muslim. If I decided to start saying the shit he is about Christians or Jews i doubt you would have defended me.
So, fuck you Wutsi, fuck you BOG.

Fuck you Wusti*

"Followers of the Religion of cut them to Pieces just following their instruction manual."

And here again, BOG unwittingly executes another tactic of the anti-Muslim propaganda industry - quoting only half-verses!

See I can even be tolerant of people abusing me for fighting the good fight for tolerance and freedom. Shine on you crazy diamonds :D

Turn the other cheek!

By the way did you know that a 15 year old Muslim kid gunned down an innocent old dude in Sydney late last week?

I think this radicalism issue needs to be resolved by the Islamic community frankly - not imposed upon you. But whilst ever you deny that any problem whatsoever exists - it will continue and a thread like this with opinions from guys like BOG will go on and simply get more and more extreme.

Where's John Lennon when you need him?

Fighting the good fight in the name of tolerance doesn't mean standing on the sidelines and being passive saying people should just let the other side should say whatever it so pleases, no matter how uncivil or suggestive/supportive of oppression and subjugation of an entire people group.

"By the way did you know that a 15 year old Muslim kid gunned down an innocent old dude in Sydney late last week?"

By the way, did you know that thousands of American 18-year olds have joined the Army and Marine Corps so they could go kill ragheads after drinking the same koolaid BOG is drinking? And kill they have - hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been ground under the boot of the American war machine in the last 14 years while people like BOG have cheered.

It's a cycle of revenge. America drones the Muslims. Muslims seek revenge and take down the 9/11 buildings. The next generation of Americans now want revenge and support the massacre of Muslims. Now the next generation of Muslims being shot down by America want revenge.
It's a never ending cycle.
Fun world we live in.

TrPrado - I hear you mate. BUT - and its an important BUT: giving oxygen and reacting to that kind of commentary demeans you. Better to shrug it off and give you time to more valuable pursuits.

Tolerance is a fantastic excuse to be more efficient and useful with your time - it prevents you from giving too much of your most precious asset over to reacting to clowns.

freely wondering if 'freedom' is the most freely abused word of our age.