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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
A Question About US/UK TV...
Well, all my friends like Doctor who, so I've taken to watching it...and a friend told me DW was still in B&W in 1966...while Kirk was fighting that hilariously-rubber-suited Gorn in color already? On the other side of the coin...we seem to borrow some TV shows and ideas from Across the Pond...why is the BBC behind tech-wise and US TV behind "idea-wise?" (Are we...or is this just me?)
16 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
Lowes pulls advertising from TLC's All-American Muslim
Good to know Lowes thinks a show about people merely living as families in the United States is a political lightning rod. Home Depot it is.
6 replies
Open
solo1805 (111 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
Question about World Diplomacy.
How can a FLEET in Poland move to Ukraine?
10 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
A Conspiracy I Can Get Behind
Was Russia the one behind Stuxnet?
http://the-diplomat.com/2011/12/10/was-russia-behind-stuxnet/2/?all=true
7 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
08 Dec 11 UTC
NFL Week 14 Pick'Em
This is a bit late. Damn Thursday games
20 replies
Open
OttoBismarck (0 DX)
12 Dec 11 UTC
Please Ready in live gunboats
It's so annoying when you don't, especially on build phases. I'm going into civil disorder just because the game I'm in now is so frustrating
2 replies
Open
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
07 Dec 11 UTC
MadMarx ABI-50 EoG's
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69938
31 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
11 Dec 11 UTC
Webdipmods
I have a little story


140 replies
Open
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
19 Nov 11 UTC
Cut-Throat "Hosted" GR Challenge Game
Details within... but give me 5 minutes!
487 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
10 Dec 11 UTC
Top 5 albums of your lifetime
By your lifetime, I mean music that you listened to when it came out. I'm born in '87 but I'm not going to list Nevermind. Kapeesh?
70 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
To my Hungarian friends
Anybody know where you can find Szalon Cukor? Every place I look is out of stock.
6 replies
Open
korben (153 D)
12 Dec 11 UTC
live game 273
looking for 2 more players...
1 reply
Open
santosh (335 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
Errors
The map isn't displaying, and I get:
29 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
10 Dec 11 UTC
XBOX 360 of PS3??
OK...I am a *PC Gamer* at my core...but with the family, there is are certain advantages and positives to owning a Console as well.

57 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
It's been a while
Who wants to play Ankara Crescent?
56 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
11 Dec 11 UTC
I NEED A NEW FRIEND ASAP!
gameID=74265

The mods banned one of my friends : (
9 replies
Open
EmperorMaximus (551 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
Need one more player
gameID=74293
WTA
36 hour
Password: winter
1 reply
Open
taos (281 D)
07 Dec 11 UTC
what do you think about fat women?
i am looking for an advice
i have this girlfriend who is really but really fat(120 kilo or more)
she is a really good women works,cleans,smart and other stuff you may be looking in a wife
151 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
06 Dec 11 UTC
Favorites thread
We will introduce and attempt to justify our favorite things. See inside
108 replies
Open
santosh (335 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
Aargh
I can't mark as read the unread messages in my gunboat game, one of the players got banned. I'm OCD about removing notifications from the top bar, and this is killing me. Help!
3 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Dec 11 UTC
better nuclear power?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16085385

there's a good talk by bill about this on TED, if anyone is interested...
5 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
08 Dec 11 UTC
Exposing Obama's Bald-Faced Lies
Listening to Obama's spewing of the standard socialist rhetoric demands they face the light of day for what they are, bald-faced lies.
8 replies
Open
velocity (570 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
What to do about a multi player in my game?
Hello all. I'm seriously concerned about a multi-player situation in one of my current games. Who do I contact to look into it?
2 replies
Open
Argento (5723 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
New game "For the old times..."
0 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
11 Dec 11 UTC
"I want a good gunboat"
good game everyone
2 replies
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
08 Dec 11 UTC
Gun Control
So two more people were shot (and killed) on my university campus today. Fucking coward Americans and their retardedly lax gun control legislation ruining our Reading Day. More than 80 gun deaths a day, are you kidding me?
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Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
That's not correct.

http://www.potowmack.org/emerappa.html

In the context of the times, bear arms means military service. It was always used in that manner.

"Explicit Military Definitions of "Bear Arms" Contained in Militia Acts. "Bear arms" in militia statutes and official reports represents a very broad context of military obligation and compulsory military service. On the other hand, the term was rarely used in acts for raising voluntary provincial forces and then only to describe the manpower pool from which to draw. Therefore, "bear arms" represented the broadest conception of military (mostly militia) service. Some of the militia acts and other documents contained explanatory language defining at least in part what they meant by "bear arms." All refer to some aspect of military service. For example:

• 1665: "to bear Armes or wage war by sea or Land."(111)

• 1669: "to bear arms, and serve as soldiers."(112)

• 1676: "to beare armes in martiall or millitary manner."(113)

• 1730: "to bear Arms, or learn or exercise himself in the Art of War."(114)

• 1731: "bearing arms or attending musters and training."(115)

• 1755: "the bearing of arms or Military Service."(116)

• 1775: "bear Arms, nor be concerned in warlike Preparations."(117)

• 1775: "bearing arms in the militia."(118)

• 1780: "Bairing Arms or Doing Duty" in the militia.(119)

• 1787: "principled against fighting or bearing arms."(120)

Sometimes the definition was more explicit. For example, in August 1744 Rhode Island exempted Quakers from all requirements for military duty, going into considerable detail that also clearly and unambiguously displays the military meaning of "bear arms."

"That any Person inhabiting in said Colony, and of a sober Life and Conversation, who can and shall Frankly and Freely, upon his solemn Affirmation … declare … that his Opinion and Religious Sentiments are, that in Matters relating to War, he ought to be Passive; and that the Practice of War, or the Art thereof, and the Use of Arms, and the Exercise thereof in War, are inconsistent with his Belief as a Christian, and that he declineth the Customary Use of Arms in War, and would be excused from the Law relating to Military Discipline for Conscience-Sake and out of Principle, and for no other End or Purpose whatever: In this Case such Person shall be exempted from bearing Arms as a Soldier, and from the Law of said Colony relating [to] Military Discipline or Equipment."(121)

Three other pieces of evidence are significant. As quoted above in the section on the right to bear arms,(122) the requirement for military service as a prerequisite for voting ("every man that bore arms in defense of his country had a right to vote") and the theoretical reverse (if men "were allowed no vote they had no right to bear arms") clearly demonstrate that "bear arms" represented military service. Similarly, during debate in the House of Representatives on the Bill of Rights in mid August 1789, Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts argued against a constitutional exemption for pacifists from militia duty because this "would give an opportunity to the people in power to destroy the Constitution itself. They can declare who are those religiously scrupulous and prevent them from bearing arms."(123) Clearly, Gerry was using "bear arms" to refer to military service, not to hunting or self-defense. Also, during debate over the first national militia bill in December 1790, Roger Sherman of Connecticut "asked, if gentlemen imagined, that the state governments had given out of their hands the command of the militia, or the right of declaring who should bear arms."(124) Consistently, such references are to militia duty, not to private use of weapons."
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
nice cut and paste job. but whether you're right or wrong is irrelevant, you and you gun grabbing cohorts aren't protecting yourselves or anyone else, you're keeping ONLY the criminals and the government armed and history is replete with examples of both of those groups being a serious threat to the people.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Gun and paste job? You wanted evidence and I provided it. That the evidence is inconvenient to your bs 2nd amendment narrative is why you want to ignore it.

"you're keeping ONLY the criminals and the government armed and history is replete with examples of both of those groups being a serious threat to the people."

Except that states with gun control have far less gun crime, and it's the very fact that we have lax laws regarding legal gun use that gun violence is so widespread. And I already provided several counterexamples to your nonsense about tyrannical government & gun control. Nazi Germany weakened Weimar gun laws. Weimar gun laws were put into place to begin with because of Nazi paramilitaries running around intimidating and killing people. Because of Weimar gun laws, Nazi paramilitaries couldn't take power by force of arms.

Keep on repeating yourself while ignoring any counterarguments. That seems to be the trend these days.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"Which is it? Legal guns are neither cheap nor easy to get and cheap and easy to get guns are what we call te blackmarket which gun control won't stop."

Blackmarket guns are so widespread because legal guns are so easy to get. The illegal gun trade would cease if the legal gun trade would be shut down.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"Except that states with gun control have far less gun crime, and it's the very fact that we have lax laws regarding legal gun use that gun violence is so widespread."

Lie. Chicago's Cook County has some of the most strict gun laws and has the highest murder rates in the nation.

You cannot legislate protection of people. People need guns for self-defense just as they need locks and alarms.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Criminal don't obey the laws anyway, why would passing stricter gun laws stop criminal from getting guns?!? It doesn't, all it does is disarm law abiding citizens who want a gun for sport and/or personal self-defense.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
The state of illinois has lenient gun laws, and the Chicago suburbs aren't regulated by Chicago gun laws.

But anyway I had meant nation-states, and it's clear that most of the world has stricter gun laws than the US and lower gun violence. Finland is a rich country that nonetheless manages to have high rates gun violence because of lax laws. Ditto Switzerland.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
'Legal guns are neither cheap nor easy to get and cheap and easy to get guns are what we call te blackmarket which gun control won't stop.'

actually with guns in walmart, it's pretty easy to get one, and i'd say they are within the budget of most working people. I don't know what your definition of 'cheap and easy' is, but compared to where i live, this is fairly accurate.

Second, in case you didn't note the actual statistics, lower homicide rates AND lower gun related deaths occur in Western Europe. That said, it is fair to point out that there is about as much in violent crime in the US as there is in Europe, some parts of the US appear to be as violent as Russia, while others as peaceful as france/UK. (though the average is higher, especially if you exclude Russia from the statistics, and specifically talk about the EU rather than Europe, i don't know what gun ownership is like in Russia)

That siad, gun control varies within the US, so i think it's pretty easy to just look at the data for the different states. However i don't know who has the most liberal or most draconian gun laws, so it's harder for me to compare/contrast.

How about you actually inform yourself rather than spouting the same lines over and over.

'you and you gun grabbing cohorts aren't protecting yourselves or anyone else'

the data seems to disagree.

And did i get an answer? Did the seige in Wacco texas indicate to anyone that guns laws will prevent the Tyranny of your government? Does anyone think that having their own gun will prevent law enforcement officers from killing them?

As for criminals, again, looks at the data for other countries, and even within the states. Tell me what you see.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
If the price of having an armed population is "gun violence" so be it. It is the governments of the world that want the people disarmed, and it also the governments of the world that are historically the greatest threat to the people. Armed people can defend themselves from tyranny, disarmed people cannot. Simple.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"You cannot legislate protection of people"

Really if you can't legislate this then you can't legislate much of anything. Legislation is mostly about "protection of people". Regulations about lead in toys, regulations about safety regarding automobiles, regulations about how teddy bears are made. Regulations about the safety of nuclear power plants. It's all about protecting people.

"Criminal don't obey the laws anyway, why would passing stricter gun laws stop criminal from getting guns?!?"

Is that all you guys can produce, these slogans? Shut down the legal gun trade and access to illegal guns will disappear. The legal gun market is saturated. And someone already provided the stat about how 60% of criminals in jail for use of guns used *legally obtained* guns!

"all it does is disarm law abiding citizens who want a gun for sport and/or personal self-defense."

Except guns used for "personal self defense" are rare and guns use for crime, suicide, and accidents is far more common.

orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
'Criminal don't obey the laws anyway'

yes, but if they can't buy a gun in walmart it is much harder for them to be armed in the first place AND anyone found in possession of an unlicensed firearm would be arrested... making it much easier for law enforcement to prevent gun crime.

I'm glad you want to be able to defend yourself, but the result is more homicides by gun than any other developed nation in the world.

I know economics has a major impact on violence, but the US is supposed to be an economic super-power, yet the homicide rates make it look like a second/third world country.

And don't quote me a single county and tell me is has the highest gun crime rate. Show me a graph - as i've said, you can pick individual examples all you want, of the best or worst, it is more useful to show trends which apply everywhere, otherwise you're ignoring data which doesn't suit your point. That is only required if the data doesn't support your position.

i posted links to a breakdown 50+ US states and districts, i don't however have any idea of the economic or gun law differences within the US, so i'm not able to easily analyse the data.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
The data is very clear: remove guns from the population, and you open the door for genocide. Ask the peoples of Cambodia, Burma, Armenia, Russia, Uganda, etc.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
yes MichiganMan, simple, and wrong.

Have you even thought about any of my questions?
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"If the price of having an armed population is "gun violence" so be it. It is the governments of the world that want the people disarmed, and it also the governments of the world that are historically the greatest threat to the people. Armed people can defend themselves from tyranny, disarmed people cannot. Simple."

Blah, blah, blah continue to ignore any evidence to the contrary. You're just going to continue to regurgitate NRA bumper stickers. I guess you quit because the facts are not on your side.

"Ask the peoples of Cambodia, Burma, Armenia, Russia, Uganda, etc."

Uh I guarantee you the people of Uganda would say the problem in their country is too much access to guns. If Uganda had gun control there wouldn't be a Lord's Army. And the Armenians were heavily armed, I don't know what you're talking about. There were plenty of Armenian militia fighting alongside the Russians and British.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
I have thought about them. Waco is exactly what I am talking about. We're told that all these horrible things were going on inside there, but the people in there said different. The government massacred those people. They'd probably be alive today if they weren't so armed, but then again, maybe not. They would likely be in prison. What's the difference?
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
I am not an NRA member, I just think you're liberal desire to save everyone from themselves and others is playing right into the hands of the Powers-That-Be that want a placated and disarmed population.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
No difference between being burned alive and getting 3 square meals and a bed in prison? Is no argument too ridiculous for you?
Invictus (240 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"The state of illinois has lenient gun laws, and the Chicago suburbs aren't regulated by Chicago gun laws."

I live in Illinois up by Chicago, and that's completely false. Illinois is the only state without any form of legalized concealed carry policy. Municipalities can also have harsher laws than anything the state passes. So while you're right that the suburbs aren't covered by Chicago ordinances, they can (and some have) passed restrictive gun ordinances of their own. Cook County, where Chicago and many of the suburbs are located, also has restrictive gun laws independent of what Chicago and the various municipalities might pass.

Chicago is the prime example of how banning guns does nothing to limit gun crime. There was a shooting on Michigan Avenue this summer for goodness sakes!

And this whole conversation, like all the gun rants here, misses the big point entirely. You need to AMEND the Constitution to ban guns. If you feel strongly about the issue and want to really succeed then work for that goal. Anything else is a waste of everyone's time.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
@ Invictus, EXACTLY!

Liberal "save the world" politics is a joke. Our Republic was founded on the notion of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. In such a Republic, you cannot ban things, thoughts, nor actions that are not malum in se. Not pot, not cocaine, not prostitution, not guns, nothing. A gun by itself is not harming another. Without harm to another, there is supposed to be no charge. But we're not that Republic any longer.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
'They'd probably be alive today if they weren't so armed, but then again, maybe not. They would likely be in prison. What's the difference? '

some of them might be in prison, it's highly likely that the children would not be dead.

But the point is, they wouldn't have gone to prison without a trial. Now if you are infact advocating a system where people have the right to reject the decisions of their local court be force of arms, then you will be SURE to have systems where people take up arms to defend themselves, AND get killed by their government like in Wacco.

If you take this position then you are not advocating living in a civilised nation, you're talking about something akin to the wild west.
Invictus (240 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Well, I don't want to get that philosophical. The simple fact is that the Supreme Court has ruled what the Second Amendment means. If you want to change that you need to amend the Constitution or overturn the precedent, which is not an easy thing to do and would also happen to be the wrong thing to do if the ruling was proper, as there is every indication it was.

You want to get rid of guns? Fine. Amend the Constitution. It's the only way.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
I am not advocating such a system. But, the rose-colored glasses through which you are gazing regarding our "legal system" are clouding your vision of what really goes on. The courts are corrupt and controlled by the same criminals that have usurped our Republic and turned into a Democracy.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"And this whole conversation, like all the gun rants here, misses the big point entirely. You need to AMEND the Constitution to ban guns. If you feel strongly about the issue and want to really succeed then work for that goal. Anything else is a waste of everyone's time."

No, actually, you don't. All you need is to replace one of the arch-conservatives on the court who ignored 200 years of precedent regarding gun laws. You repeat this line every time when we have this discussion in order to shut down the conversation. Not going to work.

"Liberal "save the world" politics is a joke. Our Republic was founded on the notion of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. In such a Republic, you cannot ban things, thoughts, nor actions that are not malum in se. Not pot, not cocaine, not prostitution, not guns, nothing. A gun by itself is not harming another. Without harm to another, there is supposed to be no charge. But we're not that Republic any longer."

The framers did not believe in this "you're not the boss of me" hyperindividualism". See: Alien & Sedition Acts, for details.

Public safety is a legitimate legislative aim. Sorry we don't live in the Wild West.

"Chicago is the prime example of how banning guns does nothing to limit gun crime. There was a shooting on Michigan Avenue this summer for goodness sakes!"

Chicago is a prime example of how gun laws can't exist in a vacuum. And if your neighbors make it easy to get guns and you're a huge big city it's going to be a hard slog.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
10 Dec 11 UTC
'You need to AMEND the Constitution to ban guns.'

exactly.

'If you feel strongly about the issue and want to really succeed then work for that goal. Anything else is a waste of everyone's time.'

Yes, but you have to convince people that this is the correct course of action, because you can't amend the constitution without doing so, and that is what having conversations like this to discuss the issue
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
"You want to get rid of guns? Fine. Amend the Constitution. It's the only way."

Wrong. A reversal of Heller would suffice. You're not going to be able to crush the debate. Stop.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
" If you want to change that you need to amend the Constitution or overturn the precedent, which is not an easy thing to do and would also happen to be the wrong thing to do if the ruling was proper, as there is every indication it was."

Every indication? The slew of court cases prior to it say otherwise. You, as usual, act as though because DC v Heller ruled in your favor that that's the final word on gun law.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Invictus always wants to shut down the debate, brag that his side won and say that's that. Funny, the people who advanced the DC v Heller case didn't think they didn't a constitutional amendment to overturn 200 years of precedent.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Really, the Alien & Sedition Acts?!? Really?!? Read Jefferson opinion of those acts. They were the first divergence from the true intent of the Republic. Those Acts tormented John Adams until his death.
Putin33 (111 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
George Washington was adamantly in favor of them, and believed in his heart that the Jeffersonians were insurrectionists.

Maybe Washington wasn't a founding father.

Where is the evidence that they "tormented" Adams? Nevermind, you don't believe in evidence.
MichiganMan (5121 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
What is one of those self-defense uses of a gun was you, your wife, your child or someone in your family. Would you trade their life and say they shouldn't have had a gun. It's not about statistics, its about freedom and personal responsibility.

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198 replies
Gazelle123 (127 D)
11 Dec 11 UTC
Live game
gameID=74485
10 min/phase , ancient med, starts at 4:30
:)
1 reply
Open
Gazelle123 (127 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
Live game
Simple live game, 5 mins/phase
5 D to join
URL: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=74484
0 replies
Open
The Czech (39951 D(S))
10 Dec 11 UTC
The knife show gameID=74451
Wish some people knew how to play.
2 replies
Open
dr. octagonapus (210 D)
10 Dec 11 UTC
How to resign?
^how do you resign from a game?
4 replies
Open
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