Yes, but in those cases you have a Head Coach wich is chosen in a given way, and you need to take more things into account than each player's personal skills and results.

I don't think they are comparable things.

and the only concious decision i would make that wasnt subjective is not letting you play Xapi

"@Xapi i will keep saying it until you admit its not on this site, so if your being technical "we need to take into account only what happens in this site" then as no where on this site does it say ghost ratings or tournament results you cant use them"

The G-R rating is calculated based on the results of this site, and the tournament is played on this site.

"and the only concious decision i would make that wasnt subjective is not letting you play Xapi"

Don't you mean objective? I think you're confusing the terms, last time too.

head coach is normally picked by the owner if we are just talking about normal sports teams (im basing this on football/rugby) so let Kestas pick someone

come on yall, you're both being a bit silly. can you please stop arguing and try to find where you can agree.

so far, i see that you both agree that G-rating is an important factor.
@trim - why do you think performance in a tournament based on this site should not be considered?
@Xapi - why do you feel that it's important for someone to be judged only on their performance on this site?

i always confuse those terms espically when im not really paying attention, you got what i meant anyway

This is not a normal sports team.

I think it's more like Tennis in a way, where, even when there is a head coach, his arguments for choosing are usually best ranked and results in the last few tournaments (Go figure, the same things I'm proposing...)

I mean Davis Cup tennis, not regular tournaments.

@trim - you said you wanted to take into account win and draw %s - how would you value them? wouldn't that be basically duplicating the efforts of the G-rating on some level?

@Xapi - if one concern is that people have high G-rating because of playing PPSC, then perhaps another factor to look at is the percentage of their games that are WTA?

@Djbent for a number of reasons, people might not have wanted to play in the tournaments- they can go on for a while, people might have joined after they started or weren't sure what they were so they didnt join. MY worry is it can exclude people and there is meta gaming espically in the leagues,( which i know will go on in this site cup thing unless its anoymous) which again can skew things.And finally someone could have had an amazing couple of games but been really bad since/before the tournament

"@Xapi - why do you feel that it's important for someone to be judged only on their performance on this site?"

1 - Because we'd be making a team to represent this site, this community, and ourselves as players.
2 - Because things from outside this site are uncheckable, unmeasurable, and subjective, where as the data from this site is all the contrary.

@djbent if someone has for example played a fair few games and their win % is very high i would put them automatically in unless there was an overwelming reason not to

you do realise this is all bollocks anyway i bet if say 50 people said they wanted to go for the team and me and Xapi applied our own methods to pick a team, they would be pretty much identical

@trim - ok, those are fair points. but is that an argument against including them as factors, or simply being careful about how heavy you weigh them? would there be a way, in your mind, to include them as factors while mitigating some of the problems you have noted?

@Xapi - #1 is fair enough, but #2 is not necessarily correct. there are many many tournaments which have checkable, measurable, and objective rankings. just like we have the GFDT and the Leagues here, there are things like WDC etc that also rank players. i would agree that people's performance on other sites should not be included, since this is about our site, but maybe there is a way to allow the FtF rankings of a player to play a role, even if small, in helping us select?

"@Xapi - if one concern is that people have high G-rating because of playing PPSC, then perhaps another factor to look at is the percentage of their games that are WTA?"

Probably, but my main concern with G-R (although it's better than the "trim chooses" concept) is that you can reach a rather high G-R playing against lesser players, and in this tournament, there will be no lesser player.

This also goes against taking Win % Draw % as an objective value, it's even worst than G-R (Because G-R is weighted taking who you play against into account).

That is why I think the tournament is a great way to decide, because the winner of the Premier League will have risen above 6 great players (no one got there by chance, look at their records or G-R rating or even "trim chooses" method, and you'll see they are really good.)

that was my argument to exclude tournament results

Xapi stop calling it trim chooses call it someone chooses

"@Xapi - #1 is fair enough, but #2 is not necessarily correct. there are many many tournaments which have checkable, measurable, and objective rankings. just like we have the GFDT and the Leagues here, there are things like WDC etc that also rank players. i would agree that people's performance on other sites should not be included, since this is about our site, but maybe there is a way to allow the FtF rankings of a player to play a role, even if small, in helping us select?"

While I don't completely disagree with that, I see two problems:

1 - How small is it? I think we need something really mesurable that tells us how to choose, because subjectivity will lead to people being dissapointed, frustrated or angry. If we have something mesurable, the 8th guy will say "too bad, I didn't make the cut", if "trim chooses", he'll say "That damn trim screw me over, my G-R is higher than X's and he got in".

2 - Do most players on this site participate at events like those you described? I think they're a very small minority, most who play here do it because they can't do it live elsewhere.

@Xapi we are not looking for 1 person are we?And your showing my problem with the leagues people missed the first one so they are stuck down in low leagues,so thy dont look as good as someone in the premier league but they could be better. Im not saying the people who win leagues aren't good but you cant just look at that, in my eyes it should be not counted or at the most the deciding factor if all else is equal

"Xapi stop calling it trim chooses call it someone chooses"

I will keep calling it "trim chooses" because that was the idea you put forth as something that you thought was valid, and that makes me laugh.

it is valid and like i said before i bet if you used your methods and i used mine the team would probably be exactly the same

"@Xapi we are not looking for 1 person are we?And your showing my problem with the leagues people missed the first one so they are stuck down in low leagues,so thy dont look as good as someone in the premier league but they could be better. Im not saying the people who win leagues aren't good but you cant just look at that, in my eyes it should be not counted or at the most the deciding factor if all else is equal"

I made a clear proposal that we take two winners from the two leagues (there are two per year), two from the Masters and GFDT (that doesn't depend on results from the past season) and three from the G-R.

It is a first proposal to be discussed, but it takes into account what you said, and it was posted two pages ago.

let us speclate that the top 8 ranked G-rating players asked to join the team:

1 TheMasterGamer
2 MadMarx
3 Silver Wolf
4 Rait
5 Ivo_ivanov
6 Akroma
7 ag7433
8 Jacob

How would you pick the five?
TheMasterGamer currently is in the top spot of the top league. But he's not in the GFDT.
Akroma is at the #1 spot in the GFDT right now. But she doesn't play in the leagues.
Silver Wolf is in neither. But he also plays a lot of PPSC games, and is not active in the forums (is that another factor to consider?)
MadMarx is in both the Leagues and the GFDT, but not at the top of either. Should that matter?

and so on.

The team would be of Seven people, not five.

not for me i wouldnt look at leagues

So why don't you each apply your method, spell out what it is for us, and tell us which of these 8 playerse would qualify? then we can see the advantages and disadvantages of each.

sorry, yes that was a typo. of course it's a team of seven. =)

ahhh man that means i have to search for all those people to look at their stats