It encourages you to at least visit the land, make pilgrimage, like a Christian would to the Vatican or Jerusalem or a Muslim would make pilgrimage to Mecca, THAT's the encouragement; of course, it also encourages staying in the Jewish State (what's the point, after all, of having a Jewish State if no Jews go to live in it?) but it's not madatory.

And Zionism..... well I suppose anyone can be a Zionist, but I think it's really a Jewish thing at its core, since the whole thing is not only having A Jewish State but THE Jewish State- the land Moses led us out of Egypt for, the Land of David and Solomon- if you believe in that sort of thing (which, again, I do.)

Just a few thoughts.

The long road to a lasting peace in Northern Ireland did not come from the British Government launching airstrikes against Irish towns and cities.

Describing Hamas as a solely terrorist organisation begs the question are the ANC in South Africa a terrorist organisation, was Nelson Mandela himself not imprisoned for terrorism.

There is little that is not controversial in this sphere of discussion, but I would point to the example of the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, established by Daniel Barenboim and Edward Said.

This orchestra features musicians from Israel, Palestine, Libya, Egypt and other Middle Eastern nations, and provides a shining example of how acceptance of our shared humanity is the only route to peace.

It is worth considering that there has only been one time when Christians, Jews and Muslims have lived along side each other in peace. It was in Andalusia, for the last 700 years.

War is not inevitable, but difficult to avoid as long as people of all nationalities are prepared to pick up the gun.

Followers of the three Abrahamic faiths should be ashamed of themselves for the ignominy they bring upon their God. Why can you not heed the words of your prophets before you kill a man in their name?

This conflict will never end. Neutrality is the best option in an infinite conflict.

The only thing that will see this bloodshed cease is the demise of Islam or of Israel. Neither are likely.

"Followers of the three Abrahamic faiths should be ashamed of themselves for the ignominy they bring upon their God. Why can you not heed the words of your prophets before you kill a man in their name?"

That's the problem, Major. Two of the three religious books do not advocate violence towards one of the other groups. The third one does.

I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

I'm afraid I feel compelled to correct you. All three contain passages which can be, and have been, construed to incite violence towards followers of the others.

Perversely, they also all contain eloquent and moving passages devoted to spreading a message of peace and acceptance.

I forget who I quote here, pwrhaps someone could illuminate us, but it has been said that...

"Without Religion their would simply be good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for a good man to do an evil thing generally takes faith in the will of God."

That in the 21st century lives are still being taken in the name of God is the greatest sorrow of our age. We are experiencing the unenlightenment friends.

@ obiwanobiwan:

I can't read this any more! Why have you started a discussion if you think you are 100% right in anything you say?

lol....not a word of objectiveness to be found other than Edi B, Chrispminis and Major M....

It is undoubtedly true that England was responsible for the root cause of the "60 year occupation" but if it hadn't been for her (and many other nations') sacrificed during the previous decade then the World may have gone an entirely different route...

obiwan -

What is the "Kol Nidre"?

Is Israel supposed to say " come on Hamas, send rockets at our civilians and we won't shoot you"?

I think people would be ok with Israel randomly shooting small rockets back. That would be ok. LOL.

Hey now withnail160... I'm pretty my position was about as objective as it gets...

Kol Nidre is the prayer that is chanted on the night of Yom Kippur. It is so beautiful, like the Catholic Ave Maria in a way. It is a solemn rememberence-type of song that reminds us of all the harm that has been, and can be done to one another in this world.

FYI - I am a Zionist that prays for peace first, and territory after. Happy, Healthy New Year to all of the Diplomats - may we beat our swords into plowshares, etc.

"It encourages you to at least visit the land, make pilgrimage, like a Christian would to the Vatican "

I believe this is only Catholics, no, not all Christians.

Been to the Vatican. Awesome place. Truly inspiring.

On behalf of my ancesters and fellow English country men & women, could I hereby formally apologise for any problems we may have caused some time ago in the middle east. Now if you could all stop firing rockets and bombing one another that would be awfully nice.

Edi and others have pointed out (correctly) that sometimes the only way to resolve things is to be mightier than your foe and that the horror of what your enemy can do should prevent you from attacking him. This might is right argument can be very persusive, but those who follow it should remember that relative might changes over time and the other side may one day follow the 'might is right' argument and distroy you.

Yeah...

It's like a church..but it has it's own army. I think more community buildings should have armies.

Imagine if Library's had armies, no more late fees, just cold steel.

Well, it would certainly be effective in curbing lates... that is until the neraby Blockbuster invades it and imposes charges on books.

Yeah...

It's like a church..but it has it's own army. I think more community buildings should have armies.
=============================================
The Vatican has Guardsmen( armed men who take part in ceremonies more than fighting), not an army. Not even enough men for a division.

Well, nowadays anyway. It previously had its own troops, who had no problems killing people.

dont want to get involved in this disscussion

just poked in to give you this link. has lots of israel/palestine news

http://news.infoshop.org/

Croatian newspaper today brought a story about a Gaza family that lost 5 daughters and got one injured when Israeli bomb hit their house. They were aged 4 to 18. They have 2 more daughters left uninjured. Mother started praying to Allah for revenge. Father is sorry he has no sons that could take up arms and strike back when Israeli land troops start moving in, but he is going to. They were native Gaza people, their family living there for the past 100 years.
Their crime was that they build their house next to the mosque. IDF targeted the mosque because there were supposed to be some Hamas members there. They missed the mosque.

So much for the precision weapons, "not trying to kill civilians", and fueling Palestinian hatred towards Israel....

Here's the story, from the reliable source:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/12/30/israelhamas-civilians-must-not-be-targets

I repeat, I am aware that Hamas firing rockets in Israel is an act of terror and war. So is this.

The reason that I posted it, is that I don't believe US media would ever publish this story. Please, prove to me that I was wrong?

I did see something hilarious in an american newspaper

"Defiant hamas pound israel with deadly rockets"

and below was a picture of some building blown completely to shit. except the picture was of gaza and the damage was done by israelian military

Typical of propaganda. Or ignorance. I don't know which one is worse...

I dont really think you can have one without the other

Propagandists must know, but they must rely on ignorance of the masses ;)

As Goebbels said, take a small lie, repeat it a 100 times, and it will become a truth. Nobody will bother to check.

all writers are propagandists

I recommend the book, 'House on Garibaldi Street'
you might learn something

The story that Denzel posted from Human Rights Watch is quite interesting actually. Says that both sides are in violation, blah blah blah. And this quote:

"At the same time, Israel should not target individuals and institutions in Gaza solely because they are part of the Hamas-run political authority, including ordinary police. Only attacks on military targets are permissible, and only in a manner that minimizes civilian casualties."

And this:"Israel must not make a blanket decision that all police and police stations are by definition legitimate military targets," Stork said. "It depends upon whether those police play a role in fighting against Israel, or whether a particular police station is used to store weapons or for some other military purpose."

In Gaza, since there is no actually military, no army, navy, etc, who is fighting the Israelis? Is there a difference between a policeman and a militiaman? I don't have the answer to that.

Also according to the article, militiamen can gather and plan attacks inside a mosque, but Israel can't attack a mosque unless there are weapons inside.