https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/white_extremist_murders_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html

That's three attacks just in the last five months

Heather Heyer sure didn't provoke anyone or retaliate

Just how many corpses do you need to see James before you admit that white supremacists are violent and people have damn good reason to take precautions when white supremacists gather?

That is who you are defending when you claim there is no evidence of violence. No evidence of you willfully ignore it maybe.

And why might you do that?

@Ogion

yes. the neonazis were guilty of this. i am agreeing with you. i am making this VERY clear so you can't straw man me later. the neonazis who were beating the shit out of people who did little more than scream at them are pure human filth

the antifa crowd also attacked the white supremacists, unprovoked by anything more than screaming. stop pretending that this was just neonazis attacking antifa and protestors who were only protecting themselves. the engagement of violence by aggressors happened on each side.

the chief of police of charlottesville:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2iBQVffAyQ

at 10:25 in that video, the police chief is asked a question

"do you believe they're (alt right) the ones who instigated the rally, er the fighting"

"we did have mutually combative individuals on, in the crowd..."

@Ogion

"Just how many corpses do you need to see James before you admit that white supremacists are violent and people have damn good reason to take precautions when white supremacists gather? "

yes, this is fine, but the police need to be responsible for this. the correct answer to the question

"there is a potentially violent rally forming, what should we do to keep people safe"

is NOT

"let's make sure that the protestors also have violent and armed people in their ranks"

if you're a member of antifa and you want to bring your gun along to feel safe, go right ahead, but you better have the mindset 'only in self defense, and i'm not looking for a fight'








"That is who you are defending when you claim there is no evidence of violence. No evidence of you willfully ignore it maybe. "

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JamesYanik, everyone.

One of the voorganziers of the protestbefore the rally
"A lot more people are going to die before we're done here"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/why-people-are-furious-with-trump-charlottesville-white-supremacist-vice-video-2017-8

@ghug

he has NOTHING and I'm calling him on his bullshit.

he said:

"That is who you are defending when you claim there is no evidence of violence. o evidence of you willfully ignore it maybe."

i mean holy fuck. that is 100% the opposite of the truth. i've on multiple times talked about the right wing violence being terrible and disgusting, and he's practically defaming me here

maybe i held onto Command V for a few too lines though...

@Ogion

DONT IGNORE THE QUESTION

YOU SAID:

"That is who you are defending when you claim there is no evidence of violence. o evidence of you willfully ignore it maybe."

WHEN DID I SAY THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF VIOLENCE?

I'm willing to have a discussion, but you can't throw blatant lies out there, and then turn away and pretend you didn't say them

"These people want violence, and the right is just meeting a market demand."

Same guy

I've already quoted you twice at the head of my messages. You blathering is filled with you're one sided defenses of the Nazis. Cutting and pasting shouting doesn't change that.

Finally when confronted with the clear evidence you begin to realize what bullshit you've been spewing

I have repeatedly criticized the antifa and the black bloc people. But there weren't the only ones there and represent a small minority of the counteprotestora many of whom were attacked, yes, without provocation and without retaliation. You denied thisin your efforts to make the neonazis look nice right up until I provided video

I'm done, because I don't respond to gosh gallop from Nazi sympathizers

EVIDENCE:


Page 2, 13th post down:

“And if the Antifa had been protesting their peacefully, and the white supremacists were the ones who incited the violence then I'd be backing the peaceful protestors. The problem is the videos coming out of Charlottesville show two belligerent groups colliding with one another, and I've seen some where the antifa crowd clearly starts throwing things first and where on guy throws something on fire at the white supremacists, and I saw one where the white supremacists started hitting people with clubs

I can agree however that the white supremacists were the ones with the murderer which is a whole other level of wrong”


Page 2. 25th post down:

“i can't tell whether or not you said never or ever... so i can't really respond to this. violence can be justified in self defense. some of the antifa probably were acting in self defense. some of the alt right probably were acting in self defense. but a WHOLE LOT on each side were willfully entering into violence.”

“the alt-right aren't the ONLY ones STARTING violence.”

Page 3, 5 posts down:

“PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: i never sympathized with the neonazis. i ask ANYONE HERE to find a quote of me doing so. seriously. it hasn't happened.”

Page 3, 18 posts down:

“i only ever said that both sides instigated violence against one another, at some point or another. i never said "one side NEVER attacked the others." or anything of the sort

GIVE ME ONE QUOTE OGION ONE QUOTE”

“and the neonazis and alt right and antifa and blm both engaged in violence, and one neonazi killed a protestor.”

“no the neonazis were not in the right. no violence was not good. and no the violence was not necessary at some rally were nothing the white nationalists said had any direct legal or economic effect on the antifa/blm/other protestors!”

“our analogy to old Britain fell apart and you know it, but i KNOW the KKK is bad, but being violent towards them makes it WORSE.”

Page 3, 20 posts down:

“o, also not true. i fully admitted they came armed and i even addressed the fact that they started some of the fights.

i even gave you a specific video earlier back with raw footage of the fights, and mentioned how a guy with a confederate flag was an aggressor”

James Yanik: ptretend white supremacists aren't dangerous:

"some white guy in a street yelling f*** the blacks, while offensive, is less dangerous than laws, that if tyrannical in nature, could end up in armed men with guns, knocking down your door and dragging you to prison."

Yeah the white supremacist could fucking murder you and your whole family

Oh and here is James Yanik claiming there is no basis for thinking white supremacists are dangerous, because of course they're such sweet people

"you have no basis to say that the supremacists would act violently if not faced with non violent protestors. you have no evidence of this. you have not sourced this. you have not quoted a member of the white nationalists saying this.""

Yeah. Anyone paying any attention knows damn well they came prepared to do violence and that's exactly what they did. Of course James is parroting what he read on Daily stormer in saying that the poor little Nazis just were defending themselves

I don't have time to pull any of your other quotes minimizing how violent and vicious these people are. Nor do I care.

And of course he quotes the cops saying "people fought with each other" and interprets that to means "antifa attacked Nazis" which isn't what is said at all

And of course these are the folks who themselves like to shoot black people and stood aside and watched those the neo Nazis attacked

Folks like these guys:

http://abc7news.com/news/sf-cops-under-investigation-for-racist-homophobic-texts/558846/

Or my personal favorite, the cop who posted video of counter protestors getting murdered and run over saying "hahahaha! I love this!"
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/15/massachusetts-police-officer-under-investigation-after-defending-charlottesville-white-supremacist-rally/23078401/

It hasn't occurred to you that given how often cops lie, that's not exactly a credible source?

Yeah. Cops don't have any credibility issues at all. Nope

Here is a clue

Racist shit isn't funny. It isn't a joke. And no one is getting a free pass anymore. Come even close to defending racist and we will stupid those words right back down your throat. Your plausible deniability is being shredded

(And you sure did advocate violence. You said that violence was ok to keep people fro taking away guns. Protecting people of color from being castrated, disemboweled, hanged and burned alive not so much. But yeah, in response to taxes or taking guns? Totally justified.

Having said that the revolution was justified, you now have to explain why non lethal violence against members of organizations that commit terrorism and atrocities is somehow beyond the pale

I think the only way you can is to play down racists violence. Well, playing down racist violence the way so many Americans do is why people took up the chant "black lives matter" because so damn white Americans act as if they don't understand or believe that.

Make excuses, and yeah I'm calling you out. You ain't going to be able to hide, boy.

@Ogion

"James Yanik: ptretend white supremacists aren't dangerous:

"some white guy in a street yelling f*** the blacks, while offensive, is less dangerous than laws, that if tyrannical in nature, could end up in armed men with guns, knocking down your door and dragging you to prison."

Yeah the white supremacist could fucking murder you and your whole family"




no, i was referring to the SPEECH. the actual action of hi talking is not dangerous. you are adding in things i have not said. the individual person could be VERY dangerous.






"Oh and here is James Yanik claiming there is no basis for thinking white supremacists are dangerous, because of course they're such sweet people

"you have no basis to say that the supremacists would act violently if not faced with non violent protestors. you have no evidence of this. you have not sourced this. you have not quoted a member of the white nationalists saying this."""




this is also false, I never said they weren't dangerous, I simply said you have no evidence that they'd act violently if unprovoked AT THIS ONE SPECIFIC RALLY. when I saw "the supremacists" I was talking about only in charlottesville, but you've cropped what i said out of context.

in fact, the only evidence you offered to the contrary was one of the guys saying that (paraphrase) 'there was a market for violence and they were meeting it.' sorry, but that sounds like the alt-right were expecting violence






"Yeah. Anyone paying any attention knows damn well they came prepared to do violence and that's exactly what they did. Of course James is parroting what he read on Daily stormer in saying that the poor little Nazis just were defending themselves "



they came with weapons yes, but whether or not they'd use them is dependent on
1. number of police
2. the amount of violence in the protesting group
3. the different areas they were allowed to go to

and many other things. my primary point here is that having antifa present DID NOT HELP





"I don't have time to pull any of your other quotes minimizing how violent and vicious these people are. Nor do I care."




you obviously don't care since you're misrepresenting me





"And of course he quotes the cops saying "people fought with each other" and interprets that to means "antifa attacked Nazis" which isn't what is said at all"




I NEVER said that, it simply means that it wasn't ONLY the neonazis aggressing on antifa. there were many reports on antifa being the aggressors as well. I am saying BOTH SIDES FOUGHT ONE ANOTHER





"And of course these are the folks who themselves like to shoot black people and stood aside and watched those the neo Nazis attacked

Folks like these guys:

http://abc7news.com/news/sf-cops-under-investigation-for-racist-homophobic-texts/558846/"



a few cops in california from 5 years ago? HOW RELEVANT IS THIS????





"Or my personal favorite, the cop who posted video of counter protestors getting murdered and run over saying "hahahaha! I love this!"
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/15/massachusetts-police-officer-under-investigation-after-defending-charlottesville-white-supremacist-rally/23078401/

It hasn't occurred to you that given how often cops lie, that's not exactly a credible source?

Yeah. Cops don't have any credibility issues at all. Nope"





so once second you're using the cops' quote to prove me wrong... but now NONE of the cops are trustworthy because of one guy? that makes no sense




"Here is a clue

Racist shit isn't funny. It isn't a joke. And no one is getting a free pass anymore. Come even close to defending racist and we will stupid those words right back down your throat. Your plausible deniability is being shredded"




zero substance to this comment. skip.






"(And you sure did advocate violence. You said that violence was ok to keep people fro taking away guns. Protecting people of color from being castrated, disemboweled, hanged and burned alive not so much. But yeah, in response to taxes or taking guns? Totally justified. "



THIS IS A LIE. I have massive problems with those things happening, except NONE OF THAT HAPPENED HERE. i react to specific individual perpetuating certain acts of violence. so does the law. none of that happened at charlottesville. one guy ran over protestors with his car. meanwhile the other two sides were engaging in violence, both attacking one another. i am not trying to draw a moral equivalency here, i'mm simply stating the truth





"Having said that the revolution was justified, you now have to explain why non lethal violence against members of organizations that commit terrorism and atrocities is somehow beyond the pale"



1. because one is being perpetuated by a government, and the other are individuals not a part of government


2. if THAT is terrorism, then BLM is a terrorist organization. the Dallas sniper openly support BLM, many BLM supporters supported Micah Johnson, and the official leaders of the BLM denounced him.

the same has happened here, the heads of the alt right denounced the guy, but some of their supporters support him, and he supported the alt right






"I think the only way you can is to play down racists violence. Well, playing down racist violence the way so many Americans do is why people took up the chant "black lives matter" because so damn white Americans act as if they don't understand or believe that.

Make excuses, and yeah I'm calling you out. You ain't going to be able to hide, boy."






And I'm reporting you to the mods for continued lies about me. This started back on sunday and i have 3 separate accounts of character defamation. this has gone far enough

I don't like reporting people to the mods, but lies and slander to this extent cross a line

oh and by the way on cops being racist, in 2016, 963 people were killed by cops, only 4% of that was white cops killing unarmed blacks, and "unarmed" doesn't even take into account escalation of violence, whether the person was shot accidentally, whether the person had a weapon immediately prior to an altercation with the officer, whether the officer was physically assaulted, or whether or not the person grabbed for the officer's gun

with all of that MISSING you get 4%. so no, there isn't some epidemic of cops racially killing unarmed black people

"i have 3 separate accounts"

Someone ban this guy!

thanks ghug... but i'm seriously tired of all this.

Ogion's 3 quotes condemning me:



1.
"some white guy in a street yelling f*** the blacks, while offensive, is less dangerous than laws, that if tyrannical in nature, could end up in armed men with guns, knocking down your door and dragging you to prison."

speech, if not inciting violence, is less worrisome than tyrannical law. i never said the individuals couldn't be horrible or couldn't commit atrocities.


2.
"And of course he quotes the cops saying "people fought with each other" and interprets that to means "antifa attacked Nazis" which isn't what is said at all"

no, i said that it means both sides fought one another. this combined with raw footage i linked earlier shows both sides being aggressive against one another. the unbridled violence was not all on one side


3.
"you have no basis to say that the supremacists would act violently if not faced with non violent protestors. you have no evidence of this. you have not sourced this. you have not quoted a member of the white nationalists saying this."

this i said in the exact context of the charlottesville rally. if nobody from antifa showed up, if nobody in the protest had cans or aerosol spray then turned into a small flamethrower, if none of the protestors were ready for violent conflict: then violent conflict might not have occurred.

it comes down to this, was antifa's presence more or less likely to create violence? i say more.


i need to keep repeating this, sadly, because if i don't, Ogion can continue his campaign of character assassination on me

after Ogion posted "I'm done, because I don't respond to gosh gallop from Nazi sympathizers" i thought to myself FINE, i'm going to copy and paste my quotes showing i addressed violence on the right, and if he can see that he's wrong and take even ONE step back, i don't need to email the mods. but nope.

and earlier on cops: this is NOT NOT NOT to defend all cops. we need a MASSIVE reworking of our criminal justice system, cops especially

http://reason.com/blog/2017/08/15/newly-released-video-shows-texas-cops-11

Wow, I thought this was going to be a moral philosophy discussion and it quickly spiraled into a social justice trial. So I'm going to be the insensible person and jump on this crazy train.

First of all, being a constitutional scholar (for all you Yanks in America) I feel it is my duty to notify everyone here that we have this darn First Amendment Freedom of Speech, which entails that everyone can say whatever they want so long as it dosen't: 1. Incite crime or violence (ex: yelling "fire" in a movie theater so everyone stampedes) 2. slander someone's reputation (ex: saying someone is evil when they ain't) 3. Time, Place, and Manner restrictions (this just means you can't go running down your street screaming into a megaphone at 3 am).

Therefore, legally, the Nazis and White supremacists in Charlottesville had every right to tell as many people to F--- off as they wanted. The AntiFa also had every right to yell back "STFU" as much as they wanted as well.

But it is important to remember that there is are "moral laws" in any society, and in America one of our "laws" is that racism, bigotry, and fascism are not acceptable in this country anymore. We literally had two wars and several movements over this. But the issue where this moral law comes into question is that most of us condemn the use of violence, but would it be acceptable if this violence were in the name of protecting one of our societal "moral laws"?

On the one hand, accepting violence could lead to the use of it in the name of intimidation. Shooting down dissidents to new policies (like when the Dixie Chicks questioned the need for the Iraq war and got their career destroyed by some other singer). On the other hand, we can use it to show that certain viewpoints, like Nazism, are never ok and will be met with retaliation.
Thoughts?

@TheBritishGent

isn't the slander one a part of defamation and libel laws in regards to Press freedom, not free speech?

Nah, it can apply to free speech as well.
Generally, though, people are only taken to court on this if it results in personal damage. The best example I have off the top of my head is the Dallas couple who had to pay their wedding photographer a million dollar settlement because they falsely accused her of being shady, resulting in a loss of business for the photographer who eventually had to close up shop.

the essential reason why freedom of speech covers hate speech, is because we don't want to have an arbitrary system for deciding what is and what is not hate speech.

i know some kids at my own college who consider micro-aggressions to be hate speech.

what's morally acceptable and what's not, really comes down to

"this person said a bad thing, so we should use government threat of force to send from armed men to drag him to jail."

the precedent is worrying, especially with how volatile society's ideas about morality can be. hell, slavery used to be morally acceptable. there's the phrase "politics is downstream of culture" which i believe in: government changes as the electorate does.

thus letting the government enshrine social law, would actually make it much more resistant to social change


there's also the final problem of effectiveness. censoring ideas doesn't always have the greatest track record of making an idea unpopular unless backed by extreme force. censorship is more likely to create a belligerent counter culture, and also spawn sympathy for that counter culture (no matter how disgusting their ideas are)

the sympathy is with the basic consistency of applying rights, so that no person should feel threatened to speak. it is not with the actual ideology behind it

@TheBritishGent

wow... how did they "falsely" accuse her of being shady? isn't that... kind of an opinion?

ot her camera work was shady?? haha