This begs the question "Why can't an intelligent person with strong opinions make an articulate or entertaining argument that doesn't belittle others and castigate them?"

In the same sense, "Why can't an intelligent person with strong, well articulated, and often entertaining arguments avoid being belittled or castigated by those that disagree?"

Well that's easy, everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but if you want to air them publicly and they are extreme, then you open yourself up to direct criticism and ridicule. If you don't want these things, keep it to yourself.

I agree trip, but that becomes the responsibility of those that disagree not that of the original poster.

I disagree with that ssorenn, and that might be the crux of the issue. I don't think that anyone needs to fear ridicule for opening their mouth. If you put your opinions up in a public debate, they will be challenged and in that challenge you'll find their weaknesses. That doesn't mean you should be ridiculed or criticized for having them.

Most of us here are just bits on a screen to the others. When we share personal information about our real lives here to provide context for our perspectives, that does *not* mean that those details are automatically fodder for attack by those with a different perspective.

When anyone here stops arguing the point at hand and starts using ugly ad hominem attacks, it's time for that person to go.

@Jeff Kuta

A. Glad to have newcomers on board!
B. There were ad-hominems directed at Putin33 that were *way, way* over the top a few months before you got here. I mean foaming at the mouth crazy and horrible. There's a long history behind it, and the weird thing is, it was still creeping up once in a while but dying down. The latest stuff was pretty tame, not sure why the harshest punishments are reserved for now.

Basic opinions yes even moderately right or left. Fine. But of you are completely off the reservation, someone needs to speek up. I am happy to be that person. I could care less if you agree. These were problems in history and they continue in sole societies today. But you are entitled to your opinion so there it is.

"When anyone here stops arguing the point at hand and starts using ugly ad hominem attacks, it's time for that person to go."

And yet, this is only the case some of the time.

Lets be extremely clear here, Putin did not get banned to the best of my knowledge for his political or personal ideologies. He can banned for lack of respect to the people who own and run this site. He chose his path.

@ssorenn: the problem is ssorenn, that both you and krellin and whoever else attacked him rarely "spoke up". what you did was calling him a rapist (krellin) and ignoring every single of his posts loudly (yes, one can loudly ignore, see ssorenns posts towards putin for a brilliant example) whenever he said something even if it had nothing to do with the subject at hand.

ssorenn: the problem is that when you do what you mention above, you don't say anything that can be agreed or disagreed with. You just curse and call them names.

Looks like we're going to get into an entirely insupportable "He started it" scenario. Putin33 was here for six years or so. He had indulged in ad hominems. It was pretty common. When the rules for the site changed; he refused to change with them.

Putin received far worse than he doled out. He is banned while ssorren continues on being a dimwitted ass on the forum. It makes no sense.

Maple forced away and Putin banned makes me really question things. It seems things are out of control and going downhill. The mods hopefully regret their recent actions, the respect that jmo and zultar have earned from me over the last couple of years is fading fast.

I don't always agree with Lando.

I do here.

Again, the forum is whatever it's is. I'm here to play diplomacy. I don't care what any of you think. Not one little bit. If this was a school yard, all would have been handled different. This is a school yard with anonymity, defend that shithead if you want. I don't care. I won't lose sleep over any of you. If would want to beat me, play a game and let's see what you got.

Most of you know so little of life. Sad. But time tends to cure that. When your older and more wise about the world you will see different. Engaging people like Putin serves no purpose. By the time you all actually get it. I'll be long gone.

@ssorenn: so you annoy him instead?

Why his idiocy annoyed me. So?

but it serves no purpose, you said. why do you pretend not to care if it is so important to you to dismiss him as idiotic?

I have zero respect for people like Putin and maple, and there's one more that will remain nameless. And so I will put whatever my two cents is when I want. I actually don't need any of your permission. The rest, I have found some wonderfully talented players here who it is always fun to game with. On a personal level you are all blips on a screen, so don't think I owe you anything. Respect is a 2 way street and 3 have none of mine. Please mute me if you don't like it. No worries. I mute no one , I want to hear all your rambling. I have respect for quite a few here, and am ambivalent towards a lot. But if you want to game I'm in

i'd really like a game with you sometime ssorenn, even if i'm sure you're a lot better than me, but that is not the point i'm trying to make.

I can't help but feel that this forum would have been a better place with ssorenn banned and not putin, and that would probably have been more justifiable too. In most fora, Putin's behaviour would have been cause for a banning, true, but here he was a long way from the most egregious violator of decency, so for him to be banned and leave others around seems totally ridiculous.

I would like that. My point, and it comes from being a Jew and knowing what's. It like to have people hate, just because of religious beliefs. So you will have to forgive me, as I see no place in life to deal with people like Putin or maple. So instead of engaging their idiocy I will berate. I am not going to change their viewpoint and I won't waste my time trying. Those are the types of people I would put down like a lame horse.

ssorenn, wouldn't it be better in this case if you just leave them be? would that be more justifiable with your beliefs?

Mendax, you seem to be under the belief that Putin was banned for his ideology. I'm not thinking so. Tenure means nothing. Respect means quite a bit more.

Why are you referring to tenure? I can't see why that is in any sense relevant.

People who spew hate, In my opinion should have it back on them 10 fold. People who just turn a blind eye are almost as bad. All you who like to quote history should know this.

ssorenn, why should i spew your hate back to you 10fold? is it too much to simply ask you to be quiet?

Mendax just mute me dude. I have no desire to even talk to you. Also I miss read what you said at first. Whatever.