JaimeR, welcome, i meant nothing by it

Not a problem friend. Soon you won't just know the name, you'll fear it.

; )

if you want to game, start one in the forum and I'll join---WTA only and 24-36 hour phases(prefer 24)

Whose SNypase

EAte the RIche

Hey! King Atom is back y'all

Thanks ssorenn! Game info here: http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=1183496#1183496

"Hey, they killed Krellin"

It's always good to start with a philosophy. The problem is and I have seen this happen a few times recently, the Mods read the forum, see a little bit of smoke, go get some petrol and chuck it straight on, then once the thread is ablaze feel they have to take some action. The best analogy I can give is if you are doing nothing wrong and get stopped by the police, you get annoyed because they are a little heavy-handed, you ask them to back off, they object to being told what to do and the situation escalates from nothing to something in a very short time.
Jumbo used to get himself worked up in this way but thankfully he has learned to control that rage within him, only to be replaced by Zultar.
If you have seen or read the Stanford experiment you will know what I mean.
Zultar philosophy and intentions are noble things, you just need to back that up with calm and measured actions, there was no need to ban Putin, you've got yourself all excited because he didn't bow to your demands in a PM, we are all on a learning curve here, the grown up thing to do would be to e-mail him, apologise and explain that further transgression may lead to silencing, not banning.
You know I am right but I bet you ain't got the balls to do it. it is the interpretation and application of your own rules that is failing you, not the rules themselves.
However I applaud your pro-active approach since you got involved, with Kestas it did feel a little like it was something he had lost a bit of interest in or no longer had time for. Now you have set out your stall and explained your philosophy maybe it is time to chill a bit; as always in recent times the Mods are doing a great job, shouldn't mean we can't rip the piss out of them because we are friends and this is the internet and we are adults and that is the kind of shit that goes down between consenting adults, whether in person or on a forum.
If I am wrong I am sure I'll get one of those PMs from you warning me about my behaviour, don't you just love them....
Time to grow up and move on guys, I think we all get what is happening, the new Mgmt team have made their changes and stamped their authority on the site and you have the Krellin seal of approval, surely no more is needed.
Now just invite back all of the fun guys like Putin, Draug, Maple, Synapse, Blankflag, Bolshoi, MeepMeep and we can all be one happy family again. If they step out of line just silence them, a good forum is an inclusive, not an exclusive one.
Of course Zultar you will become the old senile grandfather who sits in the corner in your rocking chair that nobody likes and people will occasionally chuck peanuts at you to stop you snoring, Kestas will be the Uncle that everyone talks about and you tell us he is travelling the world but we secretly believe he is in a Bolivian prison for smuggling narcotics. Jumbo is the nasty head prefect who comes from private education and so likes to exact cruel punishments for no apparent reason.
Enough with the philosophy .... it's boring already!

@zultar & the mods (good band name btw): what i still don't understand: isn't an indefinite silence enough of a punishment if one doesn't behave in the forum?

I echo kasimax's concern. Was it really necessary to permanently ban Putin33 from the site?

Bump for visibility of Nigee's post, because I agree with it.

I completely missed Nigee's post. Well done Nigee.

Some of these bans recently (not all) should be reviewed. Putin, maybe Draug (I forget what he was banned for), Fasces, mainly. SYnapse's ban was deserved and maple is not banned atm.

"If they step out of line just silence them"

Why didn't we think of that?

*facepalm*

Personal foul, roughing the poster, five silence penalty, first down

zultar: "When krellin went over the line, he was silenced. We had our disagreements but since then he saw that we were trying to maintain the integrity of the site, that we are being consistent and has said so in the forum. When Putin attacked krellin and his family in a thread where krellin was celebrating a new job, I told Putin that was not acceptable and asked him to change that, but he believed that I was singling him out, then he went from thread to thread to complain that special rules were being applied to him despite being asked to discuss his issues and concerns in the mod emails. When ssorenn attacked members, I PMed him to ask him to stop or dial it back, and he knows that I am willing to silence him if he doesn’t stop when he’s asked."

I fully agree with the rest of your post, but these sentences make me concerned. It sounds like you're taking a bunch of quarrelling children and arbitrarily punishing the one (Putin33) who is the victim of bullying instead of the bullies (many of which have gotten off scotch free) based on a formula of who says yes ma'am more or less often. Now, you're not a schoolmaster or a parent and have no moral obligation to take the time out of your day to identify the real troublemakers, but it will take longer for you and your team to tame the forum with such a blunt axe. And in the process, you may kick a valued member of the community like Putin33 off the website. Let me be perfectly honest with you: I was shocked anyone reacted positively to news of krellin's professional career. Rivaled only by Tettleton's Chew, krellin has been the vilest, most disgusting contributor to the Forum – and a consistent one to boot. Anyone who posts something negative about krellin is bound to get some +1's. There is a good reason for that. Yet even krellin was stunned that Putin33 had been banned: "Whhooooaaa......I outlasted Putin? WTF!??!!!? Now I know the world has gone to hell." I respect the dedication you have to this website and welcome the most recent wave of site development. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the Forum had gotten unpleasant to read and appreciate the need for a change in moderation. But with the information I currently have I must insist that you've made a mistake by banning Putin33 for confrontationalism. However absurd and over-the-top his protests and accusations may have been, he's not the type of guy you're looking for.

The world awaits Zultars next words, I have heard a statement is being prepared and a press conference will be held later today, the paperazzi are gathering.....

Congrats Zultar, you've convinced me; and i always vehemently opposed your position.

@2nd: well i figured that you discussed this internally, i just wanted to know why you came to the conclusion that someone who doesn't behave on the forum isn't allowed to play diplomacy on this website anymore.

kasimax you make me laugh :-)
When they are banning people do you think they care about that, the Mods seem to be 'forum-obsessed' .... or am I being unkind, I'll throw that open to debate, I'm a democrat not an autocrat.

it's an honour to make you laugh nigee :)

I was going to step away for a few days and come back so that I could get a different perspective and I've informed the mod team of that last night, but I see there is a fairly strong demand for me to make a statement or a resolution of some kind. I'm willing to do so today if you folks would prefer that to waiting.
So I'll leave it up to you. Just let me know if you think I should step away for a few days and come back with hopefully a different perspective, or deal with this as soon as I can.

just the promise of a statement is fine. i just wasn't aware that you planned to address this.

I wasn't aware either kasimax, the Lord he moveth in mysterious ways....

When my name is mentioned three times in less than 12 hours on webdip, a five minute countdown appears on my computer every hour until I have addressed the issue on webdip. So yeah, I'll address the issue.

Did I miss something? To what issue are we awaiting a resolution?

Mostly kasimax's question, I think - which was:

" isn't an indefinite silence enough of a punishment if one doesn't behave in the forum? "

Good question Kasi .... getting to the heart of the issue, cutting through the bs.

I think it's interesting that everyone here, while entitled to their own opinion, thinks this might be a democracy. This is a private site. I won't speak for anyone, but this is an issue more about respect than an ideology posted in the forum, I think. In the same manner that Draug supposedly threatened to attack this site somehow. Whether he did or not is irrelevant, but shows a complete lack of respect for the site owners, workers and rest of community. I fail to see how this is any different.

Take a break Zultar, we're good here. Really what it comes down to as it relates to Putin is pretty simple. We both tried talking to him multiple times, he wasn't willing to have a conversation that included the possibility that some of his behavior was out of line, nor did he think he should have to tone down his behavior towards other members on the forum at all. It got to the point where he flat out stated his goal on the site was to demonstrate how unfair the site was to the exclusion of all else.

Myself and the other mods greatly appreciate all the time and effort Zultar is putting into the site, and to be frank, if someone is only going to come here to complain about Zultar or another mod or member, and not to use the site for it's intended purpose then there really isn't any common ground for us to meet on.

I do regret that a ban was needed, and it is my intent, as I've mentioned to a couple members already my intent is to reach out to Putin sometime next week to see if we can work something out. Something being a situation where he wants to use the site for something other then complaining about the site. If we can then I'll unban him as I do not believe he, unlike the other banned members mentioned in this thread, legitimately was trying to hurt the site at all. He ended up doing so, but I believe it was done in the interest of pointing out what he believed to be an injustice.

Anyways, to address a couple of points I noticed above.

"many of which have gotten off scotch free"

This is wrong, most of the people you are assuming this about have been warned or silenced for abusive posting. Putin was not singled out. It may appear that way because he very publicly vocalized his objection for being warned across multiple threads, but he was not the only person given a warning, nor was his warning even close to the most severe.

" shouldn't mean we can't rip the piss out of them because we are friends and this is the internet and we are adults and that is the kind of shit that goes down between consenting adults, whether in person or on a forum. "

I'm sorry you feel that way Nigee, and I'm sorry if you have friends who treat you like you treat myself and the mod team. Not saying you can't do that, just telling you not to expect any respect or acknowledgment from me while that is your attitude. Everyone on the team is willing to discuss any concerns you have with the team via email though, or if you could find it in you to not "rip the piss" out of us you might be happier with the reply you get. Mutual Respect "my friend".

"Was it really necessary to permanently ban Putin33 from the site?"
My intent is that it won't be permanent, but that does depend on if we can work something out that won't end up spamming the forum.

Part of the recent changes is a focus on making the forum more of a presentable place, so new members are encouraged by what they see here as it relates to the game diplomacy. While we still want an open and engaging forum, having flame wars between a member and a site owner on the type of moderation being employed is just hurting the site, showing a lack of respect for the site, and potentially driving away new members. We are *always* open to private discussions, and will always work with members to resolve concerns privately. The site offers a fun game for free, an entertaining forum for free, and we don't ask much in return, just the respect to approach us in a way that will help us keep the site fun for everyone when you have concerns. Hopefully this isn't too much to ask.