@Tom I don't really believe any single action (short of something like being doc saved like demon that's a guarantee) will clear someone all the way through the game. I'm surprised you've held onto the "Bald wouldn't bus" thing this long, even though I'm pretty sure I said it's not beyond me to bus early like that. Either way, your play this game is pretty thorough, so I can't imagine you wouldn't take a second look at me, regardless.

As for Vash vs RD, the reason I chose RD, is right in that quote you used. Because there had been cases in the past on him, I figured there must be something scummy about him, whereas I believed Vash didn't really have any scum-indicative actions, and judging by the lack of pressure on him, no one else did either.

Bald:

"@Prado I didn't fight it? Unless you mean why didn't I end? There wasn't any hype for the night phase like there was D2, so I probably just defaulted to being passive and letting it go."

You did fight the end vote D4:

Balduran
Day-4 29:09
page 158
"In serious matters, I'm inclined to not hammer, as this IS a decent opportunity to do some rereading, especially for those who might not have read so well in the first place (*cough* Cerrynity *cough*)
For now though, %%vote Peter"

I'm surprised I've held onto that belief as well, but I think I know your "mafia personality". You hedge a lot, don't tend to drive lynches, are content following people you believe are town.

I'm translating what I've seen of town Balduan's personality into scum Balduran's potential personality, and it doesn't translate to someone who would bus a scum PR D1 especially without being able to talk to his scumbuddies first.

I'm waning in that belief some considering the circumstances though. Yoyo burnt me bad in our last discord game with a 'townslip' I bought until lylo.

But unless something changes, I feel better voting Prado.

Tom:

"Also, @Prado, if you think I am scum - explain, if I were scum, why I would have lynched y2k D5."

A lot of the case come from a combination of process of elimination and that a lot of your behavior could've been to hide behind a towny facade.

Also, just a heads up - I've got my mom's 60th bday dinner tonight, so I'll be heading out around 5pm EST (one hour before EOD). I can probably stall some, but most likely won't be on right at EOD - so we may want to plan on having come to a conclusion by 5pm if you want my full input.

It's flimsy. That's why I didn't want to play my hand until I had 3 town reads D8, and I was already sure of both Vash and rd. When you first asked about the push on Rivera, it started to crash.

I also don't think a single bus is worth giving Bald a clear.

Oh, maybe I should reread myself. That said, what you've quoted isn't much of a fight, I'd imagine it's there to explain my own lack of an end vote rather than convince others not to end.

In response to Prado's question, I imagine I didn't end for the reasons I stated in that post, then? D2 no one was as far gone as Cerry, and it was much more hyped than D4 was.

I'm not giving him a clear. I did earlier because there were much scummier people - obviously now I don't feel quite so strongly since both of you I was quite confident were town.

Myself and others treating Bald as a softclear has let him coast the whole game - which makes rereading him very difficult since he faced no pressure. There's only so much to reread with him.

Bald:

Why did the same logic not apply for you on both days?

Did you read my post three minutes ago?

D2 I was actually somewhat interested in what was happening that night phase, and no one had come to my intention as being really far behind in reading.

Why were you not interested in D4?

When you voted to hammer D2 there was over 16 hours left. Are you saying that time couldn't have been spent rereading?

I was pretty disengaged then, and had other things I was interested in. Also, while every day has the hope of getting scum, that's nothing new. Ending D2 was interesting because I wanted to get to the N2 results sooner. N4 offered nothing of particular interest (no PR actions really)

@TrPrado It certainly could have been, but given that only one other day had passed, it didn't seem nearly as necessary, and no one seemed obviously behind (or I wasn't paying attention)

But that wasn't the logic you used.

Which logic are you referring to? When I cast the vote? If you're upset that I didn't explain myself then, there's not much I can say. I didn't think that why I voted end would ever be such a sticking point, so I didn't bother to explain it.

The problem with your present argument is that the logic you used to keep D4 going applied just as well to D2, and any day. It's an ideological argument. That it was disposable to you is what's upsetting.

Do you not recognize a need for more time to reread more pages? Also, can you explain "That it was disposable to you is what's upsetting."? Are you referring to the day phase being disposable or something else?

Also vig was still alive D4

In addition to trying to explain this to Prado, I realize sitting around being questioned all day isn't a very good way to convince Tom that Prado is scum, so I'm going to try to put together a bit better of a demonstration of the issue I raised earlier with Prado's play with greater evidence.

@TrPrado so was the hooker, Prado, it seemed obvious he wasn't going to be getting any shots off.

I guess it's possible Peter could have been hooker, but the way he played didn't really seem like scum PR play

Could you explain again why as RECENTLY as D7, you said Vash would be most likely scum if both Jeff and snowy flipped town, then pushed rdrivera instead of Vash when they did?

Official Mafia 29 Vote Count 9.04

Balduran (1) TrPrado
TrPrado (1) Tom Bombadil

Not voted: Balduran

If Balduran ends the day without voting, Modkill will occur.

Currently No One is set to be lynched.
This day will finish in around 3 hours and 47 minutes

Was it because I said you would?

Did you not believe yourself? Why should we believe you if you can't believe yourself?

Just remembered rdrivera had a case on you. Did that play a role in wanting him lynched?