Papist does carry an awful lot of baggage. The very dictionary definition says it's disparaging. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/papist

There's a long history of prejudice and violence against Roman Catholics, especially in my part of the world. Until the 60s or so, my state had the largest Ku Klux Klan organization North of the Mason-Dixon line, and their activities specifically targeted the local Irish and French Catholic communities. Use the word "Papist" in Maine only with great caution.

hecks, yes, you are 100% correct. There was some people on here, who are no longer here, that called me a Klansman once, which I had to laugh at their ignorance, since I am Catholic...lol

@krellin - Incorrect. Every Chrisiian churck is part of the holy catholic (lowercase c) and apostolic church. They are not part of the Catholic (upper case C) church. That is the distinction. One is a word, the other is a name.

Naw, Draug, krellin is right. Every Christian church is part of the catholic church. It's true that if you capitalize that and say Catholic church, then everybody will realize that you mean the Church of Rome, but since it's not the actual name as recognized by Christians outside it, you'll be technically mistaken. A lot of Protestant churches, especially historically but still today, have resisted using the term "Catholic church" precisely because they consider themselves part of that church (but not of the Church of Rome, or Roman Catholic Church).

I think the Draug puts it very well--that the "catholic" church in the creeds is lower-case and means "universal," or something like that. And I think everybody uses "the Catholic Church" to refer to the Roman Catholic church.

Big C, Little C....do you rape little boys...
If you do, my friend, then you can play with the "Catholic" church...

The rest of us worship God.

@semck - Are you a Christian theologian? I asl because the thelogians I have talked to (with Doctorates of Divinity from.places like Wittenberg) all have explained it exactly the way I explained it. Krellin said all Christians were part of the Catholic Church (with the capital C that implies the term coopted by the church in Rome) and that was incorrect. We are part of the universal, or catholic, church (lowercase c) so you can argue it is semantics and pedantic all you like, but as stated by Krellin, he was wrong

Draug,

No, but I do read Christian theologians.

I hadn't noticed krell's capitalization, sorry. I agree that with the capitalization, krellin's words would refer to the RCC.

There are theologians though who don't like to use that term, simply because it's a coopting (and capitalization) of a term that does not properly refer to the RCC.

Bah...screw your Dr. of Divinity argument about the capitalisation of my C. I'll give you a "c", bitch....and it will be loose and sloppy :P

Let's be real...*fuck* the "Catholic" church and their **false** and bogus claim on God.

God never declared a Church to be rule by a Pope. Big C...Litlle C...the Devil LAUGHS HIS ASS OFF as stupid arguments like this.

He also laughs his ass of at the "Catholic Church" and their Pedo-protecting Pope, and their worship of Mary, and their worship of saints...and their worship of a thousand other things APART from Christ.

Satan laughs at this entire fucking discussion, because the fucking *human* Catholic church is a God-Damned joke.

Krellin, give it a rest. I've explained that the use of the word in the creed as being a word. It would be like saying everyone who believes in Jesus Christ must be members of the Chirch of Christ or everyone who believes in one baptism.for the remission of sins mist be a Baptist. Please, let it go. You have told.me.things in confidence and I am keeping them.there. But if you meant them, please stop using a misappropriated term for a name to somehow.imply that everyone whose various statements of faith use the word properly are affiliated with an organization that has been rife with corruption for centuries.

Back on topic, it's irrelevant who I or any other Catholic want to be pope. To the faithful, the Holy Spirit decides, to the non-believer the cardinals alone do. What I hope happens is a that a man is chosen who is both a more or less traditionalist theologically and at the same time is an outsider to the poorly run Curia. The Church needs a leader who can both radically reform the way business gets done in Rome and also not let things get all Episcopalian-y when it comes to matters of faith. But ultimately what I think is of no consequence whatsoever, and the same goes with all of you.

The Roman Catholic Church is not a democracy. While most of us are cafeteria Catholics to some extent (I've used some condoms in my day), the teachings of the Church and the basic structure of the Church are believed to come from God and not up to revision simply because they're popular or unpopular.


And krellin, as usual, proves himself a complete boor.

Draug - I disagree with you. I think the Catholic Church is corrupt, and is a diversion of true faith. YOU YOURSELF have suggested as much when you recite your history of Luther.
So whatever...I've told you things in confidence? And this has what to do with the Catholic Church ad their perversion of faith?

Krellin - I agreed withvthe corruption within the Catholic Chirch. I disagreed with your attempt to equate all Christiak churches who happen to use the word as it is intended as claiming affiliation with the RCC.

Invictus demonstrates that absolute pathetic state of the Catholic church. He tell us who he thinks should be Pope -- the voice of God -- without once mentioning the Bible. Yes....the Pope should be some guy that just says shit to make the world like the church....it should have anything to do with, you know...God....Principles....the Bible...Christ....

Kind of pathetic. Religion without God. You are *exactly* why atheists mock the Church. At least stand by some principle, for God's sake (literally...)

And a Catholic would think whatever teeny sect you belong to is heretical. But it's not 1600 so it's absolutely ridiculous to cling to prejudices like that. If you don't like Catholicism don;t be a Catholic. No one's forcing you, krellin.

Draug -- When did I equate ALL Christian churches with the corrupt, evil Catholic Church as ruled by the pedo-protectin Pope?

I think you have misinterpreted something I said, or I misspoke.

Invictus....give me BIBLE references that put a Pope in place...a Pope that hides sin...a Pope that creates rules that are not in the Bible...a Pope that pretty much can ignore the Bible as he see fit.

We Christians mock and anhor Catholic doctrine because it is perverse and evil in far too many instances. I forgive the Catholics for killing people hundreds of years ago....but protecting evil, wicked men TODAY....you are just perverse and disgusting.

"He tell us who he thinks should be Pope -- the voice of God -- without once mentioning the Bible."

First off, the Pope's not the voice of God.

Secondly, do you believe in the Trinity? That's not in the Bible. Do you have a stereotypical conception of hell? Not in the Bible. The list goes on. Church tradition has weight too, and Catholicism acknowledges that.

Invictus - I hope you see that any statements on my part are directed at the corrupt individuals who have held.positions of power throughout the centuries in the RCC. I, personally, have and had great respect for Pope John Paul II.

Invictus....the Pope DOES NOT exist in the Bible.

The trinity is NOT is the Bible? Moron....try reading the bible...then get back to me. I will not waste my time arguing about a book you have never read.

So...the POPE believes in the Trinity...but you do not? But you worship the Pope? Kind of makes you a fool...

Krellin - " *every* "christian" church is a part of the Catholic..." - When you used the capital C, you implied the RCC. Therefore the implication was thaty beloved Evangelical Lutheran Church of America was some.how part of the RCC.

Draug...I *literally* hate when you get so fucking uptight about a capital C or not when you know what I mean. Drop it, for God's sake. The fucking Roman Catholic Church is a perversion of the Bible, is a joke. This you agree with. Drop it.

I agree to the point of saying the managememt of the RCC is a joke. But the Chirch is the bride of Christ and that makes the members of the church, whether RCC, Lutheran, Baptist, UCC, Presbyterian, Episcopal, or community church are all part of the bride of Christ.

Krellin in that regards all religions are a joke.no?

As Isaid before i am not a devout Catholic. I was born of an Italian mother and a German father from Bavaria (same region as the last pope). I was raised and have lived in areas either heavily baptist or heavily catholic

God cares not what church Iattend and my relationship with him is my own.

Massive +1 StressedLines.

"Krellin in that regards all religions are a joke, no?"

Finally, somebody gets it :P

Friends, friends, friends. Let's all be civil.
Allow me to ask the broader question: what is the point of debating religion? The very nature of religion is that it calls for the exercise of faith, and that this faith may at times conflict with the seeming nature of the world. Religious people believe that there are things in this world that cannot be measured, quantified, observed, argued, or proven, because they transcend the human experience. Why then would one rail against their faith in a way that only strengthens and confirms their position? The more effective strategy is to ask questions, find common ground, and discuss in a civil and open-minded manner. If you do otherwise, they'll only perceive you as being as ideologically ignorant and rigidly dogmatic as you perceive them to be.

But I don't want to be civil :(