magic?* I can't type tonight.

I'll chime in on the believing side, if needed/wanted.

And Star Wars all the way.

I think he does some... I'll need to look that up to be 100% sure. In the LotR mythos Gandalk is a demi-god. Darth I don't believe is.

In the Theist.Atheist debate?

Sure...though which side would you be on, being Jewish and agnostic (hey, Jewish and atheist here, shabbat shalom, mein chaver!) :)

In the Sci-Fi debate that...has cropped up above...

I think that's open to everyone...though it seems those followers of the Book of Firefly are upset a couple of us haven't come to become believers (what's it about, I just never saw it, and then it was gone, and never had an inkling or care to seek it out?)

^@H.H that last remark, sorry

@Obi I think you can watch it on Hulu and I know you can on Netflix.

Obi, it's best described as "wild west meets sci-fi," but no words really do it justice. Watch an episode or fourteen and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Ok upon further review.. Gandalf says some incantations (Like sending Bill the pony home, or the phrase that opened the gates of Moria), but for the most part LotR focuses on non-verbal spell casting.

I'm not a good debater--in middle school I lost a debate on slavery. And I was on the "against slavery" side!

@jwalters -- Wait...God, All-Powerful being, chooses the written word, instead of a daily Holy Message broadcast via His Powers through the ether so that all will here and know the truth...but YOU can't get your point across with words??? lol Too funny...Guess you aren't all that confident of God's Word, huh, because a debating Christian should primarily spend his time first pointing to scripture, and then (secondarily) supporting it with words. Unless, of course, you plan to go through life proclaiming God's truth through...uh...dance?

Gandalf was Istari while Vader was just a human Sith. Now Elrond versus Vader would be interesting, but Gandalf would have had no problem taking Vader out. Hell, he beat the Balrog.

As far as LorR and incantations.Words have power, great power, in LotR. Speak 'Friend' and Open. One ring to rule them all... Yes, Gandalf oft used his staff, but he whispered to butterflies and to Shadowfax and he encouraged the use of traveling songs amongst the fellowship because *he* knew words had power.

Of course my favorite use of words in LotR is from Fellowship when Gandlaf faces down the Balrog and each time he says "You shall not pass!" his spell grows stronger and stronger eventually sending the Balrog tumbling down the chasm.

Firefly is awesome, babylon 5 fantastic but why has no-one mentioned farscape?

I mean i can understand there being no x-file or star gate fanatics; but farscape has to be in the top 5 sci-fi stories of all time.

Meanwhile, just befoe gandalf stops the balrog on the bridge he is very tired from casting another spell, something to lock a door behind them, but i don't recall whether he uses words or hand movement...

The question of darth vader's light saber versus gandalf's sword is a tough one... But also pointpess debating.

And what side of the 'God' debate does a pantheist sit?

I refuse to discuss any sci-fi brawl that does noy include BSG.

Also, which callingthe one side "atheist" is silly -- all Christians are atheist in 99.99% the same way as "atheists". They just won't cross the last name off the list :)

Hrm do we have any hindus on this site?

I'd be interested in a philosophical/religious debate, but the OP's terms are so lacking in specificity that I literally have no idea what we're discussing. Sorry obi, but "Christian" and "atheist" aren't exclusive in all cases.

@Ora - Firefly, B5, and Farscape are my three favs for TV.

Gandalf needs no sword and rarely uses Glamdring.

Adn should be theist (or monotheist) versus athiest. Like Judaism, Christianity has become a group identity as much as a religion. It's a way of life more than a belief system.

I agree with PE about the vagueness.

An interesting twist might be debates among groups. Do we have anti-gay marriage and pro-gay marriage Christians on the site? Atheists who believe in ghosts or psychic powers? Vegetarians vs. vegans?

Also, if instead of Gandalf, Ian McKellen had been playing Magneto in the world of the Lord of the Rings, would that have given the good guys a stronger or weaker position? Could Magneto control the metal of a magic ring, and if so, what relationship would that have to the powers of the ring?

@ckroberts - Has anyone ever told you that the Lord of the Rings was around in book form long before Peter Jackson made the movies? ;-)

And no, Magneto could not control the One ring. It was made of gold - a special gold, but still gold and magneto can only control metals with magnetic properties to them. Gold is not magentic.

So why the need to be against one another anyway? A more productive and interesting conversation might be what can we agree on?

also I doubt either SC or N-Baby are Christians, but I could be mistaken. They're not automatically Christian if they disagree with you obi ;-)

Draug, not only did I know that, but I have even read them!

Also: Magneto's powers, especially movie Magneto, are every bit as magical as Gandalf or Harry Potter. He can move metals because it's a power granted by comic book writers, not the scientific community.

"He can move metals because it's a power granted by comic book writers, not the scientific community..." REALLY? Huh...I thought it was more, like, a documentary. Damn..

None the less, he is MAGNETO ---not METALICO....ie. he has MAGNETIC power.

That's OK, I did a little digging and discovered his powers would allow him to control gold as well. He is called Magneto, but would better be called Electromagento. Evidently he funded his organization by literally lifting Nazi gold - lifting it up up and away as it were.

And yes, I know I just scarfed Superman (DC) to use in X-Men (Marvel).

Does DC version apply to Marvel?

Yeah, if Magneto were more scientifically accurate, to the extent that a comic book supervillain could be, that would raise all sorts of problems. Couldn't he use his electromagnetic powers to shoot lasers or lightning bolts at people? Somebody more scientifically educated than me could probably shed more light (also: could Magneto shed light?).

Superman raises a similar problem. Stopping muggers and helping earthquake victims is nice, but shouldn't you be solving the world's energy problems, mining rare metals in deep space asteroids, and raising new continents in the middle of the Pacific Ocean to eliminate habitat destruction and overcrowding?

Uh....Superman is also super enough to recognize bullshit liberal agendas when he sees them, too...hence recognizes the *lack* of need to waste his powers on such stupid endeavors...