Rommeltastic, you make my brain hurt. I suggest you go to a concentration camp and see how long your Nazi chic worldview lasts.

You're confusing pre-1939 with post 1942. Concentration camps like the ones they had were styled off of the ones in Cuba during the Spanish-Cuban war. Nothing genocidal about them yet.

You're confusing Nazis with Spaniards.

No, you're confusing the holocaust with concentration camps.

Rommel was a member of the party, trained the Hitler Youth, was a personal bodyguard for Adolf Hitler, and most importantly was a close friend of Goebbels, who made sure to inflate Rommel as much as he could in the German media so Nazi apologists like you would worship the man as some kind of Aryan hero.

Anyway Rommel was overrated as a general and as soon as he faced hardship in North Africa he went cowering to his master, Hitler, like a poodle, begging Hitler to allow him to evacuate. When Normandy was invaded and Rommel was put in charge of the Atlantic Wall, where was Rommel? Resting at home in Herrlingen. Rommel was only fit for being in charge of small units. He was poor with logistics and strategy. His strategy in France was to concentrate German defenses on preventing a landing. That strategy failed miserably. His strategic failures are even apparent in North Africa as Rommel failed to take advantage of an opportunity to take Malta.

The only reason there were any differences between the two was because of tactics (namely Hitler never wanting to retreat and Rommel wanting to retreat all the time), otherwise Hitler regarded Rommel as his favorite general and Rommel did everything he could to impress his master. If you read Rommel's diary it is full of glowing tributes to Hitler.

You're confusing x with y!

"Duhhh...let's see...you get an offer to join a prestigious group which TO DATE has done nothing wrong....barring some other career goal, you would be an idiot not to join."

So spreading terror among innocents is "nothing wrong"? stifling and eliminating dissent is "nothing wrong"? Enforcing discriminatory laws and administering extra legal beatings and killings is nothing wrong?

idiots

@ Putin - don't go Rommel on me.

"Rommel was a member of the party..." As all generals in the army were required to do. Might I point out that such figures as Von Stauffenberg were also in the party?

"he went cowering to his master" He asked permission for a tactical retreat that was characteristic of the North African war once supply lines were too extended to allow for a sustained battle. His supplies were arriving from Tripoli while the allies were getting them in Cairo. He couldn't fight at El Alamein.

"Where was Rommel? resting at home" I do believe he was at his wife's birthday during a period of extreme weather which he was told was unsuitable for an invasion (the attack was almost delayed by two weeks, if not for a lul in the bad weather).

"His strategy failed miserably" Two things. Omaha beach, and the fact that Hitler didn't allow his tanks to move. 1/3 of the tanks were forced to stay behind under Hitler's orders, and 1/3 were not allowed to attack without his consent (and Hitler was not awaken until after the beaches were taken.)

"opportunity to take Malta". Rommel needed air superiority to take Malta, and guess where most German planes were? either in France during 1940, or Russia and France in 1941 and 42. He was only given 17% of the planes available.

Yup. Full of glowing tributes because he was, like so many people, sucked into the illusion. Then in 1942 Rommel struggles with depression and comments to his wife and son that Hitler is not the man he thought he was. He also is involved in a plot to kill Hitler, although his involvement was only in agreeing to take high government offices should it be successful.

Seriously, don't go Rommel on me.

"@ Jack_Klein - No, I'm saying that up until 1939 it was the same type of "concentration camp" that anyone would have seen in Cuba, or any other prison of the time. That's what they were, large prisons. The point of me pointing that out was because they were (with a few exceptions) NORMAL for the time period."

You mean the humane cuban concentration camps that earned the Spanish General the sobriquet "the butcher"

@ Santa - this is my point. Would you be smart enough to notice that, or not? Thank you for getting the whole point - That is something that they ACTUALLY DID pre-1939.

Actually, not those. Those ones were basically the result of yellow journalism by the Americans.

I would notice them beating Jews in the street, yes. The question is would I care. Unfortunately, as an Aryan in 1939, probably not.

Okay, so that's a fair answer.

"Actually, not those. Those ones were basically the result of yellow journalism by the Americans. "

They were decried worldwide, the difference was yellow journalists suggested the solution was intervention

I was under the impression that they were made up to be places of genocide, when in reality they were just like any normal large prison at the time, with a few rounds of disease due to unsanitary conditions.

Rommel neglects to point out that 30,000 Jews were rounded up in 1938, during the Night of the Long Knives, and of course communists and social democrats were rounded up, but they don't count. So-called "anti-socials" began to be rounded up with gusto beginning in 1936, and the camps were guarded by the notorious SS deathheads. Himmler wanted his SS thugs to guard the camps (and set up an SS training facility in Dachau) because he believed it made them better men.

Not night of the long knives, but night of the broken glass. Night of the long knives was the SS's purge and murder of the Sturmarbeitung.

and concentrating a non-combatant population in camps and not adequately providing them with food, water, etc. Was it Genocide, no, was it mass murder, most definitely.

If I am correct, Putin, that was instigated by the SA more than the SS. Also, that's a fair point to be made about the Communists. If all this is to say you wouldn't have, fine. I'm not tying to force anything on you.

@ Santa - Alright, I withdraw my comparison then. If you'll check, starvation was not a chronic problem in these camps.

Rommel was writing glowing tributes as late as 1944, when the other generals recognized that Hitler was a shell of his former self. Rommel's mood changed whenever Hitler started praising him. So when Rommel was put in charge of the Atlantic Wall his diary is full of glowing praise for Hitler because Hitler was saying nice things about him again.

"
"Rommel was a member of the party..." As all generals in the army were required to do. Might I point out that such figures as Von Stauffenberg were also in the party?"

Were all generals good friends with the Minister of Propaganda? Anyway Fedor von Bock was one example of a general who was not a Nazi.

"He asked permission for a tactical retreat that was characteristic of the North African war once supply lines were too extended to allow for a sustained battle. His supplies were arriving from Tripoli while the allies were getting them in Cairo. He couldn't fight at El Alamein. "

Rommel decided to pursue the British in Cairo and was handily defeated by an enemy in disorder. He didn't bother waiting for supplies and he marched his troops to the point of exhaustion. He was overconfident and believed his momentum would carry him through to Cairo. Had Malta would have drastically improved the logistics for the Germans in North Africa, and freed up a lot of German aircraft. The Axis had been successful at Crete, so this obviously could have been done. Rommel would have had 1300 aircraft for the invasion, which was more than enough. He also had divisions of seasoned veterans like the Italian Folgore division. The British had trouble resupplying Malta and its defenses had been taking a pounding. The plan for Operation Hercules was put in place (troops were transfered to Sicily to prepare for the invasion), but Rommel unilaterally changed the plan to attacking Cairo, falsely believing that it would be easy to route the remaining British forces. It was a colossal error and only someone completely in the tank for Rommel would gloss over it.

I think someone here is a Nazi and just trying to hide it. We should spend the rest of this debate hunting down that Nazi and finding out where he lives, so we can kill him in his sleep.

Sorry that was in response to the Malta point.

Half this forum is full of Nazi wannabes.

Incidentally, Waffen SS were shitty fighters and had astronomical casualty rates due to their shittiness.

People, it's not cool to be a Nazi. Trust me, I've been there. It seems cool and all with the leather jackets and the Hitler and all, but in the end you're just plain evil.
Not even evil, more chaotic evil.

This is why Nazis are bad! You should strive for what I do, chaotic good!

Heh, actually, most soldiers in the regular army would comment that "The SS wasn't elite, they were just better equipped." It's a pattern that repeated itself. They spent their time learning proper salutes and how to intimidate civilians instead of how to fight. By all accounts the SS were not good front line soldiers, but bullies.

Also, Putin, Crete was a disaster. They took the island, but it was such a phyrric victory that Hitler wouldn't allow it again at Malta. Rommel also had to remember that in the war of the desert, taking ground was useless unless he could get to the supply centre of the other power - Cairo. It was unfortunate, but Rommel knew the bell was tolling the longer he waited. He took a risk that COULD have payed off if only Montgomery hadn't been able to break through his minefields.

I think that no one can say that Rommel was bad general. Rommel, Manstain, Guderian were brilliant generals and i read tons of books about them. Problem is that they fought for the wrong side. Nazi ideology is probably worst thing that ever appeared on the face of the Earth and we should all pray that nothing similar will ever emerge. My county had less then 20 million people before the ww2, and 2 million died in that war (10%). In my home city there were 2 synagogs, and large Jewish population, and only handful of them survived the war (one synagog is now christian church, and on the place of the second one is bank).