My statement was in refence to the concept that if you work for a corporation, you should just quit when you learn they are corrupt. The statement was not specific to Murdoch's tabloid rag, but to the world in general which includes the US. And when you consider the state of afairs the world over, having a job is having a job. Want to be unemployed in Greece or Portugal or Spain or the US right now? I sure as hell don't.

Is Draugnar seriously arguing we're obligated to support any and all media companies because otherwise we'd be "harming innocents"? So am I "harming innocents" if I don't watch Fox News? What about if I don't read American Renaissance? Give me a break.

No, Putin. I'm not. I'm just saying we shouldn't sya there are no innocents. Collateral damage happens and sometimes it must happen. Change can be violent and ugly, but change must happen and innocents will get hurt. Just remember to not lay the blame for corporate greed on everyone in the corporation as you bring the corporation to its knees.

If only you cared as much about public sector workers as you care about the supposed mail clerks who work for the worst tabloid newspaper on earth.

I think its annoying but I also think its smart. Hacker journalists are the future, might as well get an advantage before everyone's doing it. Plus its a job I wouldn't mind doing. Love to write, love to code, why not? Seems like it would be fun.

Actually, I do. I just feel the unions have *too much* power. But I'm a firm believer in worker's rights and protectinging the non-decision makers from the deciison of TPTB no matter what sector they are in.

Yeah it's fun to delete voicemails of a murder victim and make the family believe the girl is alive. What a great hoot. Who cares who gets hurt, so long as you have a good time.

This is the essence of the libertarian ethos. Anything goes so long as you're having "fun".

and sometimes it is good to cause this collateral damage and force these people to find better employment (or for them to make that choice) where they have some level of personal responsibility for their actions, and then the non-existence of corporate responsibility WILL come right down to the people, they will choose to be corrupt themselves or not.

This is like Col. Gadaffi putting 'innocent' civilians in buildings to stop them from being bombed, yes collateral damage sometimes happens. In this case the people are going to be forced to find other work, rely on charity, or social welfare.

and in fairness, yes, it is harder in the US, but fortunately in Europe most people get this freedom to change their job, which is a civil freedom which isn't available in the US. Pity you don't protect your citizens... but largely not a problem i will ever face.

"Actually, I do. "

Anybody who believes this flimflam can go back and read Draugnar's long record of attacking workers in this forum.

"This is like Col. Gadaffi putting 'innocent' civilians in buildings to stop them from being bombed, yes collateral damage sometimes happens."

Yeah, like his home. How dare he be in his home with his family. Seriously, you liberals annoy the shit out of me sometimes. Anytime somebody is in their own home it's declared a "compound". NATO bombed a fucking orphanage and the liberals want us to believe the orphans who deliberately put there so as to invoke collateral damage. No, sorry, sir. NATO deliberately targets civilians.

To be fair, I wasn't speaking on that one case, I hadn't even read much about it. I was mostly talking about it in general. Finding information via unsecure electronic means and getting paid/protected for it. I'm talking finding out about bribes, insider trading, and other scandals. Maybe even finding out who killed someone by tapping the victim's phone.

If the girl had access to her phone, she wouldn't just have been deleting messages. The notion that anyone but the parents had hope the girl was alive because of this is absurd. If the news organisation had done this and found out who the suspect was, they'd be applauded. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't.

Putin, Col. Gadaffi used figther planes on protesters.

In my mind this makes him a war criminal. Leaving him in power is thus a mistake. Turkey and the Arab league supported this move. The people of his country will celebrate NATO's bombings as a vital part of the liberation if they achieve that. Whether NATO bombed orphanages, or Gadaffi put civilians in harms way as human shields is rather irrelevant to the comparison i was making to THIS conversation...

Yonni, Thank you for the link.
Now Murdoch will get credit for doing the "right thing?"

So you haven't read much on it but feel free to comment that the hacking was justified and that's "absurd" that the parents and friends thought Milly Dowler was alive because her voicemails had been cleared? The police say that abductors frequently call in and leave voice mails as a misdirection effort and possible leads were deleted. But I guess that's all just fine because nobody's privacy is as valuable as your hacker tabloid friends getting their "story". Sometimes you win. Sometimes you don't. If "not winning" = undermining an investigation into abduction-murders. Oh well.

http://rt.com/news/airstrikes-libya-russian-military/

No, they did not. But like the rape/viagra story, the media latched onto this story as if it were true.

@Putin - Nevermind. For once I get to sya this on this forum and mean it.

*PLONK*

Putin, calm the fuck down. I never justified their hacking, but you're blowing it way off the rocker.

As a blanket statement: Hacker journalism is the future. It's only going to get bigger from here. Sure there are going to be some idiot acts like deleting a dead girl's voicemails but there are also going to be some justified acts that the public agrees with. There's already plenty of PI work out there. (Think GWtDT stuff) And yes, I think its fun. (From a programming aspect challenge==fun)

"The Conservative-led government had already backed a deal for News Corp to buy out the 61% of BSkyB it does not already own, and says the two cases are not linked." (so says the National Post article)

Really? Murdoch drops a newspaper and gets a broadcast network... Doesn't sound like that bad a deal, to me. ...especially in this age of the decline of newspapers.

People love surveillance so long as it's done by tabloid goons instead of the government, apparently.

Bravo for Murdoch. He recognized that he lost control of his publication and did something about it. How many people will be out of work on Monday? How many people face prosecution. Shutting down the publication sure puts a damper on lawsuits for damages.

Of course he's been doing this for a while but yeah he's a profile in courage, here.

And these events took place a while ago. He only shut it down after there was a big hue and cry about it.

now putin, don't go calling webdip users 'people' when they haven't yet passed the turing test :p

I'm smart enough to protect my data and electronic affairs and I'm appalled that more people don't take time out of their daily lives to do so. Don't want your voicemails hacked? Turn off unregistered remote voicemail checking and don't use 0000 as your password. Cmon folks, don't sit there and complain about unknown people having access to your data if you're not willing to protect that data.

You lock your doors and your windows eh? You have a car alarm? Maybe even a home security system. But you won't take the time to make sure you're secure online? Oh well, you get whatever comes to you.

In relation to hacker journalism, if a political figure isn't going to do the above, they deserve having their emails read and published, their voicemails heard and published, and any of the damages that comes from either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/world/africa/05nations.html?_r=1&ref=world

i see Russia news and the NY times are divided along cold war lines... i guess whatever 'the west' says is wrong if you want russia to look good by comparison... i don't know about what other allegiance Russia and Libya hold... not that i know which one is true, largely because i don't have access to the russian spy satelite network (yet).

The western media admitted lying about the rape/viagra story, or at least propagating it without verifying whether it was true. Russia Today doesn't exactly have a reputation of lying in order to encourage military interventions around the world. The Russian military doesn't have a reputation of being outspoken in contradicting western media reports about X or Y happening.

"In relation to hacker journalism, if a political figure isn't going to do the above, they deserve having their emails read and published, their voicemails heard and published, and any of the damages that comes from either."

And you hackers deserve to rot in jail. Personal responsibility's a bitch.

I don't appreciate the pointed comments Putin. You know nothing about me.

No one is rotting in jail and the smart one's that actually get things done with their hacking definitely don't rot in jail.

NATO deliberately targets orphanages LMAO.