Personally I don't believe in the concept of great song ever written. My favourite songs and artists change all the time. (That said said there are some that I would label as truly great).

typo... I don't believe in the concept of *greatest song ever written

I just find it difficult to admire covers. I do like two, as stated above.

Glen Miller examples are a bit different because he was in an era where a lot of the music played was written before recording was the norm. Like Mozart in a way, the cover not only helped to preserve the music, it defined it in the minds of the public.

My position is extreme, I happily admit that. But then am I so wrong for being highly amused after the Band 8 concert in London when I heard someone say that they didn't think much of Pink Floyd's cover of the Scissor Sister's classic Comfortably Numb - both of which were performed live by the respective groups, FLoyd coming on some time after the Scissors.

I actually wrote an article under the title of The Greatest Song (about twenty years ago now!) and explored the various criteria being used then to identify the entity, 'Greatest Song'. There are contenders, but the answer is elusive.

I was strictly objective in that piece. On a more subjective level, I find it hard to stick even the label great onto anything copied. I mean, do we really have a greatest Karaoke singer of all time?

p.s. I have been reading about New Order since I opened this thread and have discovered why I have heard so very little of their music. A line about Balearic House / Acid Rhythms just about explained it. Not my cup of tea at all.

Flashman, in your article, which song did you pick as the greatest song?

... or rather which songs did you pick as contenders?

I think the problem lies mainly in our modern view of music and musicians. it is right to value composers, but we should value them as just that, not as the be all end all of their own music. It might not have anything to do with this, but I've been milling that thought around for a while.

20 years ago, Bing Crosby's "White Christmas" would have been the #1 best seller, I think. So that was probably on the list.

I didn't (personally), I went through the then contenders using recognised methods.

Two answers came up (after excluding Mozart):

a) Stairway to Heaven. This followed a long series of top listings in radio voting, as well as some remarkable early press about it needing to be played backwards to get the hidden message; and
b) Dark Side of The Moon (the Floyd one, not America). This was on the basis of, at that time, a 14 year unbroken run in the top 100 sales charts. The proviso here was that this was a collection of songs...

I did not use personal criteria and I did not endorse the choice even though I like the music.

Please note: this was pre-Internet, and hence pre-vote-rigging-in-the-extreme. I did not organise the radio competitions or compile the charts, I merely looked at the criteria.

It was also pre-most of Mr Jackson...

I am fully aware of the claims made for Thriller (sales). Those claims were not valid when I was writing.

Anyway, the theme here is Joy Division.

For those who like the song, 'Love will tear us apart', what is the key attraction, the music, the words, or are they balanced?

I would be very surprised to see White Christmas on a list from twenty years ago. Bands from the 1960s would have been very prominent on a list written twenty years ago.
Strawberry Fields For Ever - The Beatles
Like a Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan
Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys
Sympathy for the Devil - The Rolling Stones
Would all be songs I would expect to see on such a list.
Of course a list written twenty years ago would have included quite a bit of puk and post punk.
Love will Tear Us Apart - Joy Division
London Calling - The Clash
Those two songs would come to mind. The Smiths and the Cure would have been there somewhere.
I am forgetting a heap of American artist of course such as Bruce Springsteen would would have been on such a list too.

Flashman its a combination of the lyrics and the music. The songs is very angsty and atmosheric. And Ian Curtis has such a mournful desolat voice. Angst ridden teenagers used to love discecting Curtis's lyrics - so the lyrics were a big part of their attraction.

Thanks. That makes sense. The guy I was arguing with is still angst ridden at 30, and has, as his only claim to fame, a minor newspaper report of a concert he and his mates played in Wales (he was 14) where the reporter compared them to Joy Division. It was rather feint praise but he took that as the crowning moment of his life.

I think I was too old to appreciate the lyrics in that way.

White Christmas? It did come up on those radio lists, often, but Stairway usually came first or thereabouts.

I am not sure what is was like in the UK buttin Australia both Joy Division and New Order were considered underground bands. They stood out from the far more commerical 80s style of music at the time. For a teenager to listen to Joy Division was statement about who you were - you were saying I am rebel and I am deep. I think about things in a way that my peers don't. (I am saying that Joy Division were necessarily that deep - but rather explaining how a teenager would think about it).
The music was fresh, however. And the influence is still apparent today. I suspect if did not get into them at the time you would be less likely to now. The context might not be there for you.

typo ... (I am *not saying Joy Division were necessarily that deep..

Now why couldn't my fellow argumentor achieve the simple but fundamental insight that you have expressed? We all have music that means something to us (my belief) and that music is not a matter of simple choice, it comes as part of our experience of life. The music we grew up to is always going to have a big say in what we become and I, for one, never try to convert anyone to what I like. I will debate and argue but not try to convert.

Oh, and I wrote an article about that too... Long ago, different life.

@flashman: "White christmas" is the second-best selling song of all time (tied with "silent night" after "Candle in the Wind 1997"/"Something About the Way You Look Tonight" by Elton John. So says Wikipedia.

And spyman is right about Joy Division. They're a huge influence on modern music. I don't love them, but it's still really visible in a lot of music I like.

That is why I chose Candle... to rebut hellalt.

Well yeah but that wasn't out when you wrote your article.

@EmperorJake I realize that White Christmas is one of the biggest hits of all time. I am just surprised to see it on a list from 20 years ago. Such list tend to be voted for by young people and White Christmas dates from the 1940s. Not that there aren't some great songs from that era, but can't say that is one of my favourites.

Canle is the Wind dates from about 1973. Twenty years ago was 1989. The song was defnitely out when flashman wrote his list.

This list is best selling singles, nothing voted/rated. Nicely objective for flashman.

Oh, wikipedia says the single came out in 1997. I don't really know anything about Elton John.

That must have been a re-release for Princess Dianna's death.