@Hellenic Good luck with your Brexit! EU would probably not notice much, but I think you would. Some I think are over-exaggerating the importance for the union of the UK staying within the union. But in the end I am quite confident that there will be a yes in your referendum. Why would you risk of loosing lots of money by risking London's position as an important financial centre of the union?

With even the FMI critizicing the droconian measures of the Troika, and with Panama Papers adding mud to the fascist ukranian gov. I don't understand why anyone would vote 'yes'.

^my comment was for the OP

and by FMI I meant IFM

IMF

@Peter

You mean the EU that is consistently trying to clamp down on London's financial centre status and add more restrictions? I'm no fan of bankers (or that argument for leaving), but you've got it completely the wrong way around there.

I don't know what you mean by a yes in our referendum. Yes to staying, or yes to leaving?

And I'm pretty sure the EU would notice the second largest economy and third most important member (behind Germany; and behind Germany & France, respectively) leaving. Sure, we annoy the shit out of them with our incessant whining and special status; but there's no way the EU is better off without us. Personally I think the EU will be dead within a decade anyway though - and if the FN win & take France out of the EU then it ends right there.

Funny that I here from Sweden need to inform you @hellenic that "yes" means staying in EU and that "no" means leaving. :)

EU will probably be lots easier to govern without Cameron by the decision table. UK has about 12% of the population but probably less than that of innovation and the industrial production. Brexit is not a big deal for me sorry! If you are smart you stay in for your own sake.

It's not a yes/no referendum, peter.

And I'd rather Britain left and then torpedo'd the EU from the outside, because the entire thing is a bureaucratic monstrosity implementing German policies. Except on the refugee crisis; where it can't even manage that.

The EU won't be easier or harder to govern without Britain. But it will be weaker, and if Britain leaves, others will follow. And we'd encourage them to do so.

Ok I see now that the question has been changed.

But sorry. We do not need you to stay. It is rather you that need the rest of us. It will not be so fun out in the cold as you seem to think.

Typical Russophobic Swede denies the campaign of genocide being carried out on the people of donbass by the Kiev authorities. Keep searching for those submarines truth police.

But yeah you guys believe in democeacyt which is why you overthrew the government and installed a bunch of right sector fascists who bomb trade union and communist party buildings.

Which countries were the first to tear up Schengen, oh that's right those supposedly European Scandinavians who are now denouncing the Dutch. No solidarity whatsoever what a surprise.

@putin33 It is Russia and your dictator the real Putin that has occupied Crimea with Russian soldiers and now you are also occupying the Donbass part of Ukraine also this time with Russian soldiers. For you I can only see two possible explanations 1. Either you are so stupid that you actually believe in your dictatorship's propaganda or 2. You are paid money to spread the regime's desinformation and propaganda on the Internet.

It does not matter so much which of the alternatives that is the correct one, I will probably soon do the same as many here already have done and mute you. The only sensible thing to do to not have spend time reading lies, bullshit and propaganda.

@peter

"We don't need you to stay"

I didn't say you did. I said the EU would be weaker without us; but whether we stay or leave, the EU is dying regardless. If we left now we'd speed that up; and the sooner we tear the entire thing down, the sooner we can start it again 10 years later without all the bullshit that's tarnished this one so much. Immigration isn't even the issue that makes me want to leave the EU (I intensely dislike UKIP), but sadly the Labour eurosceptic left is pretty small so they don't put my point of view across all that often. The fact is the Labour left now control the party and have reigned in their eurosceptic members because there are more important things (like winning in 2020) to focus on and starting a civil war over Europe isn't going to help us there - we'll leave that to the Tories.

@peterlund

"The only sensible thing to do to not have spend time reading lies, bullshit and propaganda."
You could then start by not spending so much time consuming the NATO bullshit and propaganda.

I'll repeat what I said somewhere else: I think Russia is a rather dirty capitalist country, but

1.Crimean referendum was as democratic as any european referendum (and the participation was waaay bigger than the laughable 32% ducth one).
2. There's no more proof of Russian soldiers in Donbass than NATO soldiers in Maidan.

Ok they are not only one but two paid megaphones of the Putin state propaganda in this forum. :/

Or is this just another case of illegal multi-accounting?

what part of "I think Russia is a rather dirty capitalist country" you didn't understand?

I'll add more to see whether you keep labeling people with no hint of back up.

I think Putin (th real one) is a homophobic, missogynian head of an imperialist state (looking at Chechenya and Osetia)...

It's just that you NATO pigs, are not better

Please do not make cheating accusations on the forum, peterlund.

- Hellenic Riot (webDiplomacy Administrator)

I am no fan of Putin, but the fact remains that the democratically elected government of Ukraine was overthrown by force by the current leadership of Ukraine and their extremely dubious allies, backed up by EU idealists.

We are hardly without blame on the Ukraine dodgy dealings front. Russia's position isn't exactly whiter than white either, but on balance I am more comfortable with their actions than ours.

@pricipians I understand from the way you argue that you have no experience at all of living in a free democratic country. Conspiracy theories and suspicion of everything since you cannot trust any media at all. That is bad for you and I only hope that you get a chance to try it out soon.

"I am no fan of Putin, but the fact remains that the democratically elected government of Ukraine was overthrown by force by the current leadership of Ukraine and their extremely dubious allies, backed up by EU idealists.

We are hardly without blame on the Ukraine dodgy dealings front. Russia's position isn't exactly whiter than white either, but on balance I am more comfortable with their actions than ours."

^said by someone far from pro-russian and that believes more to wetern media than wold be healthy, but still, at least, seems honest.

"I understand from the way you argue that you have no experience at all of living in a free democratic country"

Indeed, you're totally right there, I live in Mexico, far from democratic, and in some regards not pretty free :)

I hve not adressed any single conspiracy theory here. But indee, I don't trust media in some regards.

Have yo heard about escepticism? It might be healthy for you to stop eating everything you watch on your tv.

@hellenic Sorry, my bad. Will not be repeated.

"@putin33 It is Russia and your dictator the real Putin that has occupied Crimea with Russian soldiers"

This is a lie. Stop parroting NATO propaganda. Crimea asked to join Russia because it is historically Russian and felt threatened by the fascists in Kiev who openly talked about "killing all the Moskals". There was no invasion. The Russian troops who were present had the authority to be there due to a treaty already in place. I know it's hard for NATO puppets to grasp. Had Crimea stayed in Ukraine they would have been cluster bombed just like the people of Donbass to your thunderous applause. They would have had their electricity cut off in the dead of winter. Again, no outrage from those moral paragons - the Swedes. The Kiev authorities can commit any human outrage and the Europeans don't say a word about it.

"Donbass part of Ukraine also this time with Russian soldiers"

An absolute lie. The people of Donbass rose up themselves. I know it's hard to believe that people threatened with annihilation from the likes of the Praviy Sektor and their allies would not want to be part of an anti-constitutional state that ousted the legitimate authorities of Ukraine by force. I'm sure if something similar happened in Stockholm all those human rights heroes would be thrilled with the idea of living under a government that wanted to kill them.

"Either you are so stupid that you actually believe in your dictatorship's propaganda "

How much does Soros and NATO pay you to advocate genocide against the people of Donbass? Don't lecture anybody about human rights and democracy ever again, coup apologist.

"That is bad for you and I only hope that you get a chance to try it out soon."

Yes look at those Swedes setting fires to nurseries and schools for sport. They've always been the moral lodestar of Europe.

@principians I know that Latin America normally have had a very US sceptic stance. In Sweden it is more of the opposite case. I don't pretend to know too much about Mexican media but I believe it is versitiled and that many voices are allowed. It is not state controlled. But still individuals may choose to only listen to one side and develop very different opinions even if they have the same access. :)

Oh so nice! Muting putin33 worked perfectly. All his messages vanished in one blow! :D