Movies have been "message movies" since before Citizen Kane. That's the entire reason movies are made.

Oh and by the way, like every other Star Trek movie ever made, Into Darkness had about as much subtlety as a Klingon.

@abgemacht Sure movies have always been "message movies", but the original post specifically refers to the ones "with the subtlety of a sledgehammer." To that lack of subtlety I'd add trite, hypocritical, and insulting to the intelligence. I agree with the original poster that there really is a trend toward *that type* of message movie recently.

@abgemacht I don't think the 2009 "Star Trek" was this kind of "message movie" at all. The villain was just a dude out to punish some incompetence, albeit *way too severely.* He kind of had a legitimate axe to grind, but had to be stopped anyway. That's decent, non-topical, non-messagey plot craft.

As to subtlety, I think there are two issues:

1) Don't look to Action movies for subtlety. That has always been true.

2) Hollywood has systematically been dumbing down to appeal to a global audience, especially Chinese. This isn't to say that the Chinese are dumb, only that it's hard to make a sophisticated movie that appeals to both Americans and Chinese. Considering how much revenue Hollywood gets from China (don't remember, but it's a lot), you aren't going to see Hollywood blockbusters get sophisticated any time soon.

The good news is that with the Internet, there has been a resurgence of Indie movies. I've found these to be of excellent quality. A bit harder to find, but they're out there.

@ted

Into Darkness reeked of message. Remember the terrorists? And the counter-terrorists? And the counter-counter-terrorists?

"To that lack of subtlety I'd add trite, hypocritical, and insulting to the intelligence. I agree with the original poster that there really is a trend toward *that type* of message movie recently. "

OK...<Pouring a trail of fuel....striking the match...>...given that these "message" movies tend to be of a particular political bent...eh hemmm...what does this say about 1. What Hollywood thinks of you, true believers in all things Left? and 2. What does it say about all your true believing Lefties out there that you keep endorsing these sorts of movies with your money?

(The answer may be "nothing"...but I doubt it is...)

Have to agree with krellin. Hollywood exists to make money. If they can do that by making good movies, great, but it is not a requirement.

And what was Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home? Remember the whales? Trek has always had a message from the original series (Khan's first story, the episode with the half black and half white guys, etc.) to the first episode of TNG (Encounter at Farpoint where a wounded alien behemoth is being held prisoner to serve the needs of the people) and the existence of the Borg (the collective being very much a communist community). So the alternate universe Trek movies have messages... Nothing new there.

I thought the message STIV was making was that marine biologists don't wear bras under any circumstance.

I still say the 2009 "Star Trek" (NOT "Into Darkness", abgemacht!) actually *successfully avoided trying to "say something" about current political topics*. But given that almost every other "Star Trek" installment did get all preachy, it's a difficult point to make.

@abgemacht good point about having to sell these movies to Chinese audiences.

@krellin, to answer your questions...
1) It says Hollywood thinks some "true believers in all things Left" will pay $12 to see the movie.
2) It says that sometimes "true believing Lefties" will pay $12 to see the movie.

Most of that $12 is for the explosions though, wherever you are on the political spectrum. That shit sells. Or it used to, they need better ones these days. Nobody goes to see a movie for the morality of it's ideas. They should actually excise that from the movies altogether because it's annoying, and cast cheaper actors.

Listen, there is a message, and then thee is the *sledgehammer*. No one disputes that movies contain messages - it is the obviousness and stupidity of the message we are talking about.

Elysium opens with the oh-so-subtle statement on screen -The earth was poisoned, overcrowded and not enough food. The Rich *all* fled to Elsium, while the poor suffered on earth. It then proceeds to show 3 “Undocumented Space Shuttles” approach Elysium and get blown out of the sky by drones…errr…I mean rockets… and everyone on screen *except* Matt Damon is Hispanic. Good lord...and the hammering just goes downhill from there.

Again - as a sci-fi, ignoring the message, just for stupid ex-skeleton fighting fun it was an OK sci-fi...a little brain=hacking, some cool smart weapons, etc...it's the dent in my skull that is the problem.

Messages delivered intelligently, OK. The Klingon Empire as authoritarian Soviet Union was obvious...but how could it not be obvious, and Klingons were actually guys that You could root for on occasion, given their general bad-assery and code of honor and all that. So that’s a heavy message delivered with some class. Elysium…no class at all – not even an attempt. The evil bad rich people have not a single endearing quality at all…pure evil, which is ridiculous. Even Hitler liked puppy dogs, for crying out loud, so the pure evil villain (outside of comics) is just bad movie making.

holy shit i agree with krellin

Even Zod had *some* qualities that we could understand about him in Man of Steel. Sound like nothing redeeming in the Elysium folks at all.

"holy shit i agree with krellin "

Ever watch one of those movies where everyone thinks the main characer was dead, and you keep hearing, "Dang, I thought you was dead..."

I've noticed frequently lately a great number of people that love to say, "Dang, krellin, I agree with you.." with some sort of astoundedness to their implied tone.

Yes, I'm a reasonable person...but real question: since my sobreity, has my tone and ability to articulate in a comprehensible way changed/improved that significantly? Do I appear to have moderated in my philosophy, or do i just post wayyyy to much and occasionally get one right in the eyes of my fellow trollettes?

krellin.

You do great as long as it's not political :)

Even when it is political, there is usually a defensible argument hiding behind your general belligerence. But all people often see is the belligerence.

Seriously, I'm trying to be less beliggerent. Hecks hypnotized me and made me see the evil of my ways. And then I fell in love with you, YJ...it was odd, but whenever I see your name pop up I get shivers and quivers and just wanna hug something.

Krellin all you need to do is ply YJ with some unpretentious wine and he's all yours.

@Thucy Go for Virginia, since it'll insure you'll have a greater financial stability. As other people said you could always vacation or retire to NOLA.

Gah wrong thread somehow

Actually, YJ likes body paint and peanut butter...but that's private....

obi,

You are completely right. The movie totally sucked, and it was indeed a message movie. Worse, even the parts of the movie that weren't message were poorly written and unrealistic.

There were some good action scenes and the like, but as a piece of "literature" (if you think a film can be such), it was pretty bad.

Well I am hecks, didn't you know?

I am YJ and YJ is me.

OMG doppleganger.

DIE DOPPLEGANGER.

It's sci-fi...of course it's unrealistic. Seriously, if you want a "realistic sci-fi" you are wasting your time...Accept it for what it was - Matt Damon kicking ass...that's it, nothing more, nothing less...that all the previews showed you, because that's the draw to the movie...go in waiting to see him kill people in a powered suit and ignore the rest, and it's an OK movie. Stop trying to make it in to a move that is *supposed* to be something more...it's not inteneded to be anything more than an ass-kicker with a sledgehammer message. It accomplishes it purpose very well.

aww I like man-hugs krellin.

celticfox it's me who does the plying with UPW, I am not to be plied.

Though emailing me nudies would be a good way to start if you got the urge...

Ohhh! Nudies from CF??!?! I'm in!!!! Send away, m'lady!!!

"It's sci-fi...of course it's unrealistic"
Not all sci-fi has to be unrealistic, its just generally writers have a poor understanding of what is and isn't scientifically feasible, leader to lots of unrealistic works.

I haven't watched many sci-fi, but I'm sure there's lots that are relatively realistic.

There's a better chance of Krellin proclaiming and truly believing that Obama is the coming savior then me sending out nudies pics to anyone but my husband. Sorry fellows.