pe, one question: why did you 180 on your opinions about pj and uclabb in contrast to the obs qt number two?

uclabb: because i was an idiot, RIP. that "case" on him was bad and i feel bad

pj: i wasn't looking very carefully at his posts initially, further reflection made him look p. bad, see p105 for details

I think the mafia may well have won this if DC hadn't been modkilled. It was that that started PE on his mafia finding spree (which Damian followed, although he was planning to kill Krellin before changing to Gtl, so would have gotten a mafia member whatever that phase), which came just in time for the town. It's a real shame that that happened, but it did bring about some very good deductions.

My choices of MVPs:

DISCLAIMER: Obviously this list is biased towards players who survived to the endgame, as the earlier ones did not have as long a time to make an impact and were not around when the 'last chance' decisions came around. However, the list does still reflect the early game to some extent - both Krellin and Damian were my phase one MVPs, and that's part of the reason they're here.

1) President Eden

It's hard to argue with this. It was PE's arguments which lead to the killings of two mafia men (Gtlblx and Pjmansfield99) and he came up with them remarkably quickly after seeing DC's alignment. Without the actions of a number of townies the town would not have won, but without PE it would never have even gotten close to winning.

2=) Guak

The reasoning that lead to the death of Krellin was a major factor in the town's win, as Krellin was not in the spotlight at this point, and if neither Damian nor Krellin had been lynched that phase, there would be very little chance of the town coming back from it (they could only win if there was only one nightkill the next night, followed by a successful day kill, and another successful day kill). His defence in the endgame also lead to Damian's death, which is significant, but could be attributed to PE's thoughts also. The reason he is on the MVP list is because of the Krellin lynch.

2=) Damian

Damian's early game was magnificent, becoming almost universally trusted right at the beginning of turn one, and continuing to have very little suspicion cast upon him while at the same time managing to evade the Cop scan. He acted like the perfect townie - which made him not only avoid any lynch, but also made him the mafia's cover, meaning that they never went to kill him either.
His lack of contribution later, and his kill on SD instead of President Eden or Guak on the last phase, which lowered his win chances considerably, are why he is joint second and not above PE.

3) Krellin

Krellin's performance in this game, especially early, was incredibly similar to last game. Somehow, he became one of the least suspected players by acting the most suspiciously. He managed to stay in character extremely well, perhaps going over the top at times but not acting too differently to usual to arouse suspicion. He also managed to alienate himself from the other mafia much more effectively than the others did, hence why he survived longer than them.


These were my MVPs, but well done to everyone who didn't go inactive :) This game was very interesting to GM and would not have been so without all of you.

I was so mad at you PE

That last hour that phase was beyond ridiculous.

Congratulations to the town. especially PE, sorry for suspecting you for the breif time we were both in the game.
Yeah, I just have one question. I know that ghug killed me for being suspicious, but why did damian kill me? I assume he found me suspicious as well.
Also, krellin, I was wondering how my name became "VashtaNeurotica" on the doc. Very nice play.

I think the VashtaNeurotica thing was actually damian's typo when he first made the doc. It was like that when I first started adding to it.

@ghug: At one point I bothered to correct the name, and then all of them became "VashtaNeurotica" again. It could have just been damian though.

Thanks for the game. Writing walls of text is not something I do well, I guess f2f Mafia would come more naturally to me. Though I managed to avoid suspicion pretty well until DC was modkilled.

Town MVP was PE, overall MVP damian or PE.

The SD kill was a last minute choice. I regretted it almost as soon as I did it. I sent it in with 1 minute to go before the deadline. Didn't have much time to reconsider then.
My original plan had been to kill Guak.

Anyway, I'm extremely glad that the game is over. It was taking up way to much of my time and thought space. Thanks to everyone who thought I played well, I certainly tried, sorry I couldn't be around to contribute as much as I would have liked, it might have been a different game if I had.

I'll definitely be sitting out the next round though.

@damian: Did you kill me because I was suspicious, or for some other reason I can't think of?

I killed you because I thought I had a good job of distancing myself from my suspcions of you. (In retrospect I hadn't). I really wish I'd killed Krellin that night instead.

Furthermore I wish I'd been around to defend myself for the last day. But whatever.

@meme, Sorry for using the no night pause argument. That wasn't the most sporting behaviour on my part.

On a slightly funny note. I had trouble not jumping in when everyone was talking about my reads being wrong all game, since I had krellin in my sights twice and killed the other two mafia. I tried not to appear convinced by any of the arguments people made for suspects in the hopes I'd be able to defend myself by saying that if I were the SK my reads were terrible, and the SK was way more on the ball.

I was surprised I made it through the whole game without being Roleblocked, or targeted by the mafia.

@damian: Okay. Thanks for sharing. It didn't matter too much, I was dead anyway.

@damian, why'd you kill SD?

I had hoped it would throw things into disarray. Since I clearly had no reason to kill him.
I thought it would look like Guak was trying to frame me. But thinking about it if Guak was the SK his ideal kill would have been PE.

Suffice to say, that kill it was a mistake. If I hadn't done it I think I could have won

Wow, we won! Good game.

@Damian, at first you were such a town favourite that I suggested you'd likely be protected by the Doctor. Overall you didn't make as much specific cases as some others, and in the midgame you were less active. Not getting roleblocked was kind of lucky though.

If you didn't get it from the Mafia QT at least I chose my targets by going for active players who were making actual cases against players. Since I had trouble looking active shooting the active players, worked to level the playing field and make me stand out less.
Who the target was or wasn't accusing wasn't really a factor for me

Really good game all. I agree with Chaqa's MVP list, on target. Some thoughts;

1. PE Has definitely shown to be the best townie. I was really suspicious of how he entered the game, first going full on Chaqa, then pulling back. He made so many of those cases, first going all-in then going back. Perhaps I'm too cautious a plyer, but it seems so reckless to me. Would be interested to hear other views on how careful you should play as townie.

2. The QA role sucks. My question was the exact question uclabb posted, making a randomized list and asking whether the sum of scum would be higher than average. This question was optimal, no further changes needed. It only gave me a roleclaim that would survive me the game, in an incredibly boring way. I guess I didnt take maximum advantage of it, but I guess this relates to my playing style as mentioned in point 1. Still a lot to learn.

3. My biggest mistake was to suspect uclabb for so long. In retrospect I can see how he was finding a scan target by kicking up dirt. I was so focussed on getting scum that it didnt occur to me that power roles may also play differently from average townies.

4. I would also have voted for damian. The case guak made was quite good, better than damian's imho. One of the things that still stood out for me that damian - like guak said - was active early on, then faded away, while guak took a *lot* of risks early on, not likely to be done as SK. I felt PE also thought this, so took a risk by voting no-lynch. No-lynch would still be optimal imho, but again, since we seemed to be voting damian I was fine either way.

4. Really goo game by scum - most of them only came unders suspicious very VERY late. Not sure what would have happened if the mafia would have had that extra DC to count on. Town would be in much worse shape I reckon.

5. Damian: that kill of SD cost you the game!! Well played, either way.

Jeez! Cannot believe the town pulled it back... we were doing so well.

Congrats definitely to PE, Guak, Krellin - but I do think most of all Damian.

I think for us - it was the nightkill of Gtl that really threw us out of the game. I think if he hadn't been nightkill we could have saved him from one more day of lynching which might have just been enough. Also we were hooked on PE being SK (a lot of my fault) and wasted the RB on him.

i go all-in all the time as town, i find rational aggression to be the best way to play as town. will you lose some games for it? absolutely. will your teammates hate you for it when it happens? you bet! but the game isn't gonna solve itself. someone's gotta get down and dirty and press people, make aggressive cases, etc.

Yeah Minister, that's part of the reason why I think the QA should not be allowed to ask the question twice - make a new one every day.

I wasn't a massive fan of the QA either (looked at from either perspective) when calculated on a mathematical basis it appeared to be too much of a nuclear bomb effect (i.e. wiping out the whole scum team in one go) - I don't know just felt a little too much outside of the game info to me.

The QA is pretty op, yeah. I love the concept, and I tried to help meme balance it, but I didn't have an appreciation for how strong it could be until I played with it. At worst town gets an unkillable confirmed town out of it

I think the QA needs some limitations:

1. The same question may not be asked more than once (except when role-blocked, the previous question is re-used).

2. The question may not reference any out-of-game events (including the player list).

And I guess:

3. No math questions beside simple ones like "Are 3 of this group scum?"