<3

,d88b.d88b,
88888888888
`Y8888888Y'
`Y888Y'
`Y'

Well that didn't work very well.

..,d88b.d88b,
88888888888
`Y8888888Y'
...`Y888Y'
......`Y'

That'll do. Anyway, Balki, I agree with your message.

Ghug: Stop being nasty to everyone. You're upsetting me and my friend Balki.

Vashta's posts thus far:

P3: Ghug and semck were pretty good in M3 IIRC. Forget what M9 was. Oh and &&votesnowy because snwoy sucks
P5: Oh wow, ghug makes jokes, what surprise.... (quote ghug)"Is whining that my contributions are the wrong kind supposed to constitute a contribution itself?" I mean...yes?
P8: (quote snowy) "I mean I'm not going to get lynched. " Why so sure?
P9: Me thinks this starting the same time as the Survivor Final Tribal was a bad idea...
P10: Sh....sneaky....shush...quiet

so he's subtly thrown shade at two of the loudest players with early suspicion while not actually qualifying said shade with anything constructive at all, and quips about survivor as an implicit excuse for not contributing. That's cryptic and appearing to contribute without actually doing so.

@Jamiet - Vashta contribution to the game have been so low that I don't have any read on him so far, but he have played this way last two games that I remember and were town on both, so I have trouble scum reading him just for this.

@y2jkjbk - I liked your explanation a lot more then Jamiet's pressure vote.

@y2k, you think Vashta is "appearing to contribute without actually doing so"?

This is a buzzword frequently thrown around as meaning "MAFIA! WE GOT'M!" To me, it means an actual effort to blend in. It means taking time appear town by doing things that conventional wisdom considers town indicative. Good examples are vacuous reads lists, lots of questions without direction or thoughtfulness, walls of text that don't advance the game.

Vashta has not done that. If anything is clear about Vashta's contributions so far, it is that Vashta is not trying to blend in. I wouldn't place much weight on it, but it seems more town indicative than scum indicative, and it certainly is not accurately characterized as "appearing to contribute without actually doing so."

Well he's certainly not trying to express any opinions or thoughts clearly, just prodding at the loud players with early suspicion so that he's implicitly excused from explaining his own reasons for suspecting because others have done it for him. It's not a matter of blending in, it's a matter of being open with personal thoughts, something town should want to do and scum is wary of doing.

I think the rudeness phase has very cleanly come and gone, and lectures against it is empty platitudes at this point.

As to Vash, if I thought he had done anything marking him as scum I wouldn't have called for a policy on him, but rather a scum lynch. Of the players who I consider to be outright detrimental to town, I would say he is among the few who has the ego to stand such blows. Pick on someone (in the close ballmark of) your own size, etc.

As to how serious I am about it, I don't know myself. Frankly, I'm having trouble identifying any given player as being outright scummy, which is rather unusual given my propensity to tunnel. And though it is possible and even arguably probable that I have missed someone among the handful of people who have weighed in a goodly amount, it is why I nonetheless turn to the lurkers to see if my investigations will yield more promising results.

Also, something seems off about rivera. Let's have a chat about life when you find some time, my dearest Portuguese friend.

Fuck you snowy. I'll be rude as long as I damn well please.

Y2k is scum by the way. ##VOTE y2k Everyone aboard.

I think Vash would play detached and lazily D1 regardless of alignment for better or worse. So if I get some strong townreads, his chances of being scum increase, but I don't expect him to actually give a fuck about D1.

I'd like to hear more from MoscowFleet - having played a couple of discord games with him recently, I feel like I have a more info to compare his play to and form a read.

##vote Moscow Fleet. Come and share your thoughts.

I swear Vash always does this. We should at least give him a prod.

##VOTE Vashtaneurotic

Ikaneko, have you been scum before?

ghug - why do you think y2k is scum? You think his rationale for voting Vash is insincere?

What a leading question

Nah it was this:

"Wow cross post with jamiet on vash voting :o"

The Vash vote ain't great either though. Seems like picking an easy target. The rest of those votes seem more pressurey.

While we're waiting for the lurkers to awake, let's talk about some fringe cases. What do you guys think about Jamiet and ND?

@ghug Surely you remember M21 where I blew up D1 and was lynched.

I wasn't in M21, Ika. Was that your first game? Have you been scum since?

You think Jamie is a lurker, Snowy? I think that's very wrong. ND I could see, but I'm also a big fan of his not being here.

@ghug I suggest you look through the past games archive to pursue this pointless line of questioning.

I thought my sentence makes clear that I don't think Jamiet and ND are lurkers, but I shall clarify this point nonetheless.

Well, I think the case ND brought up was odd. Basically he said it was either a scum slip or bad town play - when most people here know (and I would think that includes ND) that Oztra is not a strong player.

That being said, I think scum would try to plop a vote on a wagon more likely to take off. It actually seems like a ploy to get a newer player talking more, which is a positive for town.

Nothing Jamie has done has struck me one way or the other - and I have pretty limited experience playing with him. Only the Westworld game where he was godfather, and I don't remember how he behaved D1.

You know, Ika, I tried that earlier but then I realised it is extraordinarily difficult to determine whether a player was town or scum in games which I haven't played. Which in turn makes meta reads a nightmare.

If someone has a convenient list of solutions I'd like to see it.

@snowy There are links to god threads at the end of each game.

The things that pings me about Jamiet is that while the manner in which he speaks marks him as towny, it is equally evident that he makes no efforts in trying to solve the game.

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?user=jamiet99uk*

It's a strange dichotomy which certainly has benign explanations, but I would nonetheless consider it further.

well, i was genuinely surprised to cross-post with someone casting the same vote. not sure how Vash is an easy target. if anything, Vash voting snowy in his first post was the epitome of picking an easy target.

@Snowy - I am Brasilian not Portuguese. And I can chat, probably not live as I am at work, but I am looking the messages on Peterlund tool and answering on the phone.