And I'm sure everyone was really glad that Anders Behring Breivik had no guns on July 22nd 2011 and that the 69 people who died in Utøya, Norway, weren't actually shot because the guns used were illegal.

No, we should leave guns only in the hands of trained professionals employed by the government, like the brave Law Enforcers who valiantly gunned down this maniacal 83-year old gun-wielding crime victim in her back yard:

http://libertycrier.com/government/83-yr-old-woman-uses-gun-to-scare-off-burglar-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-her-backyard/

Thanks for derailing such a sad and obviously personal story guys. You ever think 2ndWhiteLine might know some of those people who were killed? Its a small town.

I hope all your family and friends are alright 2ndWhiteLine

Goldfinger brings up a good point, one that none of us stopped to consider.

It is always a sad situation when anyone is killed or injured as a victim of senseless violence ans I'm sure if any of us could have done anything to stop this we would have including 2WL, I was merely thinking ahead that maybe everyone above the age of say 18 in the USA should be issued with a handgun to stop this kind of thing happening again.

But Nigee this is why Goldfinger had a problem with your post, I, along with him, doesn't think that you actually believe that. (forgive me if I am wrong).

"the answer must be to train all people at barbers shops and car washes to use guns"
I don't think anyone is seriously considering this as a real solution.

@Fasces - if you have a better suggestion why not share it with us, I'm quite open-minded.

so you weren't joking??

That depends on your IQ .....

so 4 people were killed at a barbershop? nigeebaby typically doesnt know what hes talking about, but in switzerland everyone has a gun and it works for them. and the biggest crime cesspools are ones where they have heavily restricted guns. like detroit or something. the data on how relaxing gun laws decreases violent crimes and homicides, like the temperature data, is unfortunately manipulable by the elites. but there is less crime where more people have guns. if you have a rapist 300lb man and a 100lb woman do you think a crime will happen when they both have guns or when neither has one?

@ blankmind:Nigee, like me, comes from the UK where there are significant restrictions on gun ownership. The UK has much less gun crime than the USA. I for one would be terrified if gun ownership laws were relaxed in the UK, it would certainly *not* make me feel safer - and I'm a reasonable shot.

@Fasces: ""the answer must be to train all people at barbers shops and car washes to use guns"
"I don't think anyone is seriously considering this as a real solution."

Is'nt that pretty much a verbatim summary of the NRA's view, which is supported by many Americans?

gun crimes? what kind of a statistic is that? ok well i live in a place where we have no squash courts, and the incidents of tendonitis is lower, therefore squash courts should be banned. if you go by your logic then exercise should be banned because without exercise you have fewer exercise-related injury.
obviously to have a rational debate we need to look at total homicides or even better total violent crimes. im sorry but the uk is kind of cesspool in that regard.

Without wanting to complicate things I want to get the debate simple
If you think guns are good get more of them
If you think guns are bad have less of them
If you surround yourself with good things and good people there is a better chance you'll have a good life ..... why make it harder than that.
If you truly believe that surrounding yourself with guns and gun-lovers will improve your quality of life then do it and have a good life.
This is not a one size fits all solution, if you love guns buy yourself a huge MF gun and stick it on your coffee table in the front room and clean it regular, just don't kill anyone with it and everyone is happy

anyway whatever your opinion on guns is you have to realize that the corporate/banking/media/political/academic complex is throwing everything at this right now for two reasons. 1. they expect a massive economic collapse in america like greece and want to maintain their control over society 2. practically speaking since the bailouts the bankers and these conspirators have far more power than they ever had, so it is just easier for them to do it now.

if any of you think all the media is pushing all this now just out of coincidence or the editors were all just so shocked by sandy hook then you are deluded.

note that dhs bought enough hollow point rounds (that are illegal in war, specifically designed to give max damage to the human body) to shoot every american citizen (or conversely wage a 10 year civil war) and all these agencies are buying military equipment including armored tanks to be used in america itself. why do you think they would do that?

Don't let my fellow Brits mislead you. I live in a small town in the UK with lots of private gun ownership. There are well over 30 guns in private hands I know about within walking distance, and that doesn't include the local gun shop. It will come as no great surprise to Americans in the pro-gun lobby that our gun crime is nil and crime in general is low.

My sympathies to 2WL. Hope you weren't directly affected.

uk crime in general is not low, gun crime is lower than the us, or maybe switzerland, but general crime is not low at all.

'Our' in the context of my above post meant 'our town'. I am convinced it also has low crime compared to the rest of the world too, on the basis that neither myself nor neighbours have experienced any in the time I was there (15 years or so)

@ blankmind: Care to back up your claims with some evidence?

oh i see... violent crime is pretty high in the uk and places like london where nobody has a gun. but talking about pro-gun lobbyists is like the discussion about climate with the coal lobby or big oil lobby or whatever. it makes people think that the money is on the other side of the debate from the media. but people who are dumping the most money own the media. you want to know where the money is just look to what the media is pushing for. that is where the big money is.

the ones seeking to restrict peoples right to own weapons should be the ones coming up with the statistics, not me. but here is one, what are the chances you will be the victim of a crime?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims

if you have a country where everyone has a gun, then the average person is not the victim of a crime, because she can protect herself. you may have more criminals killing each other, so the total crimes could maybe be higher, but to be honest if one gang member shoots another that is probably if anything good.

as much as i hate any traditional corporate news source, apparently forbes is not bad. they had that article questioning this global warming nonsense and now there is an article questioning those 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition bought by *homeland security*. so maybe forbes is not as bad as the others, for some reason.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

they are having the *solution* be that obama get more power. with their theory that dhs is somehow doing this against the wishes of the whitehouse. so that is all bs...

maybe the conspirators know that the smart people know that its all bs, and they want to try to keep them from abandoning all respect for their media. so they slowly let these indy media stories that they deny existing let into their news. probably has the reverse effect though. because anyone who remembers the corporate media denying these rounds were ever purchased sees just another example of how they lied to us.

Again with the derailing...

It's not really derailing as 2WL hasn't set it on any rails that I can see. It is entirely possible that he intended it to start a gun control debate.

The most funny paradox of American right hailing Swiss as an example is that their guns are mandatorily army-issued and they can't store any ammo at home. O the heroic freedom fighters, challenging the government tyranny with guns forcefully lended to them by the government, forcefully trained to use them properly and without anything to shoot with unless they break into local armories. Once a Swiss finishes his militia service, he has to apply for a license if he wants to keep his gun, which is a standard in most of Europe.

Apart from the artificially inflated gun numbers (and correspondingly artificially lower gun crime per gun, after all guns without ammo are useless) because of mandatory militia service, the gun politics of Switzerland are not extraordinary in the European context. Americans like Gunfighter, who admits he is for big government in defense issues, can learn a thing or two from the Swiss example but the principled anti-governmentalists hailing Switzerland are either uninformed or massive HYPO... wait for it... CRITES.

Lets play a game, spot the difference between Tettleton's Chew and Blankflag. Are we sure they're not the same person?
"Is'nt that pretty much a verbatim summary of the NRA's view, which is supported by many Americans?"
No, the NRA proposed having arm guards in public schools, this is what a majority of private schools do in the US (including the one Obama's kids are sent too). That is entirely different then giving everyone a gun and a mandatory class on how to shoot one.

"That is entirely different then giving everyone a gun and a mandatory class on how to shoot one. "

Which is what happens to young men in Switzerland with massive cheering from across the pond.

@ blankflag: "http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims"

That data is from 2002 - in other words it's 13 years old. That's not very useful evidence. Try again.

I don't know the full details on gun ownership in Switzerland and what in entails, but america has, per capita, twice as many guns as Switzerland, so I know the claim that everyone has a gun there is false, but I haven't care enough to look into this discrepancy

It must be tough in the USA to get really down or concerned about every murder that happens in the country, you would be constantly depressed. I expect if it happens down your street you're interested but if you live with that culture I expect it's quite acceptable for people to get shot every now and again.
I've heard a rumour that if there were no guns there would be a lot more people getting shot and raped and murdered and burgled, so guns are good right !!!
How many 9/11s have there been since 9/11 and how many more are the good well armed citizens of America planning.
Somebody wise once said 'if you do what you always did you'll get what you always got", no-one seems to be listening to the wise people.