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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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jgurstein (0 DX)
25 Oct 12 UTC
Morality
Here's a situation I ran across a few days ago and I wanted to know your guys opinions on whether it was immoral or not. remember, the question is not whether it's moral, but rather if it's immoral or neutral. And please explain why or why not. Read further:
38 replies
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y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
25 Oct 12 UTC
Prove Yourself in World Gunboat
Hey guys, I'm loving the world diplomacy gunboat games I've been playing recently, and I'd like to get a good solid game going with high stakes for those interested. I started a game named same as this thread, and wanted to advertise the game here. I'm really hoping that the bannings that have happened recently in a few of the games I'm in have gotten rid of the cheaters, so that we can have a true anonymous gunboat game without any metagamers joining.
2 replies
Open
Rakin (515 D)
25 Oct 12 UTC
EoG XTREME!
Let's Guess the personalities!
2 replies
Open
Bob Genghiskhan (1238 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
The Bob Genghiskhan Invitational
gameID=102614

I've sent out some invites, and hopefully some of those players will respond. A list of entered players will appear in this thread.
39 replies
Open
smcbride1983 (517 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
My shame.
Other than occasionally laughing at a fortress door joke. At pub trivia tonight I missed the first diplomacy question I've ever heard at a trivia night.
28 replies
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Zmaj (215 D(B))
24 Oct 12 UTC
EoG: The QWERTZ Empire
Well done, Bonaparte!
4 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
An elected European President
In another thread, I argued that the role of President of the European Council and the role of President of the European Commission (the EU's "government") should be merged and that this person should be elected by an EU-wide election.
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redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Orathaic argued that although the European Union in this respect is not a democracy, it is still a collection of democracies. Indirectly, we can still send the people who run this place home.
The same goes for the United States. If their President would be appointed by some other body that is elected, it would still be a democracy. However, the beauty of a nation-wide election is that people are forced to give up regionalism (or at least stretch the concept up). Whenever I vote for parliament, or even for the European Parliament, I am a regionalist. I simply choose those who best defend the interest of my country. In a 27 member federation with each country in the federation having a very strong national identity, and being very attached to that, that is bound to go wrong.
Somebody should at least be able to set an agenda for this process to go better in the future. And that shouldn't just be a puppet of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, but someone who has a mandate of its own to stand up against them.
It will probably be a quadriennal reminder that Europe is more than one's country's interest in it and invigorate people. You'd have to step over your own shadow to be able to elect this person. To spice up the debate:
Left-wing ticket: President: G. Schröder (D) / Vice-President: T. Blair (UK)
Right-wing: ticket: President: J.M. Aznar (E) / Vice-President: A.F. Rasmussen (DK)
AlexNesta (239 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Not Merkel vs Hollande?
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Where are you from AlexNesta?
Octavious (2701 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Hang on a sec... You mean to say the European Parliament isn't just something you elect crazy people to if you want them out of the country???
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Ow I thought that was a Dutch tradition but I guess we all do that, then?
AlexNesta (239 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
EU citizen (Romania), now living in the US of A (New Jersey).
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Anyways I guess I selected people who had left office for some time and were available, Hollande was just yesterday elected President of France, we don't know how well he'll be doing (although I can't say I'm pouring over with optimism).
AlexNesta (239 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
I see. Anyway, the EU parliament is a joke, just look at some of the representatives Romania has sent there: former shepherd turned football club owner Gigi Becali, the president's not-so-bright daughter Elena Basescu, crazy communist turned nationalist poet Corneliu Vadim Tudor, Norica Nicolai - best known for bringing her niece into parliament and letting her vote while she was busy or Adrian Severin, who accepted a 100000 euro bribe from under-cover journalists in exchange for amending some EU law(s)...
AlexNesta (239 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Oh and I forgot to mention Daciana Sarbu and Adina Valean, the wives of the heads of the two parties that are in power right now (social-democrat and liberal)...
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Lol whenever I talk to Rumanians about politics they give me a list of corrupt officials.

How about my plan AlexNesta? You're derailing this thread ;-)
stranger (525 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Like Tony Blair is left-winged...
stranger (525 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
But to stay in the topic, I agree on the necesarity of improving the democracy of the EU.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
By voting for EU President?
stranger (525 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Yes, that would be a good idea. Even though, especially the regionalists and ultranationalists might be against that.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
You're British?
Partysane (10754 D(B))
23 Oct 12 UTC
I am all for a integrated European Union. Same tax system, same health care, same retirement age, a proper fiscal transfer system and same laws for everyone. Not this half assed coalition where everyone is still trying to get the best out of a fucked up system for his or her national entity.
Sadly, i don't see that coming. No national state in the EU is willing to pass up that kind of rights to a european gouverment. Of course it is hard to speak for everyone but when i look at our glorious german leaders .... i give this whole thing a snowballs chance in hell.
Partysane (10754 D(B))
23 Oct 12 UTC
Now when i think about it the snowball might have an even better chance. At least there is just one snowball and one hell... he might be able to stike a deal with the devil.
In case of the EU it is infinitly more likely that we carry one like we did the last few years until there is neither a way forward nor backward. At which point we ride the whole thing down in flames.

There was recently (2 weeks ago) a very nice ex post analysis about what will happen if we really come to a point where some states like Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy are forced to leave the EU. While the loss of Greece and Portugal could still be handled with only moderate consequences for the whole EU we are well and truly fucked if Spain / Italy goes down.
The best estimate for that is more then just horrible. France alone would suffer a minus of several hundered % on their yearly bip and even the USA would experience a minus of 25% bip in the first year alone.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
^I didn't get a lot of that, but the gist of what you're saying is that you want more European integration. Personally, I believe that the functions of Council and Commission president should be merged into one and democratically elected. As for the power of such a person, I believe it should actually stay the same. :-) It would be no different than before in any way, except for the election. We could do it on the internet! Hell, we could do it on webdip!
AlexNesta (239 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
I also think that having a EU president that can be directly elected by the people is the only way forward for Europe. Hopefully, a strong and charismatic leader will step up and drag the good old world out of the mess it's in.
Octavious (2701 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
If there's one thing India and the USA have taught us is that democracies with populations in the 100s of millions just don't work too good. Why we should try to force countries that enjoy differing, yet valid, ways of doing things to abandon those ways and force themselves into unnecessary compromises I have no idea. The EU's powers should be strictly limited, and it's Parliament and President abolished. Every remaining European decision could be decided by a simple council made up of a single representative from each nation's government, with the voting powers of said reps given weightings relating to the population sizes they represent.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
If there's one thing India and the USA have taught us is that democracies with populations in the 100s of millions just don't work too good.
-India lived onder British rule until 1948 right? Give them some time. As for the USA, that works just fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita + they haven't been invaded for a couple of hundred years right?

"Why we should try to force countries that enjoy differing, yet valid, ways of doing things to abandon those ways and force themselves into unnecessary compromises I have no idea."
Neither do I.

"The EU's powers should be strictly limited, and it's Parliament and President abolished. Every remaining European decision could be decided by a simple council made up of a single representative from each nation's government, with the voting powers of said reps given weightings relating to the population sizes they represent."
-I would have no problem with that, except they're never going to do that. I think in the real world, it's gonna be pretty much this or get the hell out. I don't see Holland getting out, better to organize this one, EU-wide election.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
*"If there's...too good."
Octavious (2701 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
The US works well, but not as well as it should. The larger your nation, the less the connection between the people and their government. I'd love to go into this in depth but I'm on my phone and don't have the patience. It'd be rather dull anyway :p.

As far as EU powers go, I don't think a major slimming down is that far fetched. There is a big push for greater integration at the moment that will lead to an ever growing counter-argument. It may not be the most likely outcome at the moment, but it's far more likely than, say, the UK being part of a much more tightly bound EU
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
That's all nice and good Octavious, but you forgot the magic word here: "Euro."

You're not in it, we are. "A couple of guys with weightings related to their populations" isn't gonna make it for those of us isolated on the continent. ;-)
Octavious (2701 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Aye, you've buggered things up for yourselves good and proper with that Euro idea. still, it's not irreversible if you don't want it to be. It just makes life a bit more awkward for whichever path is eventually chosen.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
:-) Yeah. We're going to need a President...
Invictus (240 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
As much as I'm sympathetic to the idea of a truly united and genuinely democratic Europe, I don'tthink it will ever happen. Finns and Spaniards have very little in common, for example. Jamming them into a single federal system is almost certainly a pipe dream.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Erm, granted it's not my...well, continent...

But how would that even work with respect to national sovereignty?

I EU Council I can see, everyone gets a seat or two and meets, I could see a way that might work...

But a president a relatively-strong political entity in democratic politics, stronger than a PM, generally (or at least so I'd argue) and that's one person...

How are all those EU states going to submit to one president (leaving aside the difficulty of how ANYONE could possibly be elected to such a post, I mean, wouldn't you then have a dozen-plus candidates all splitting the votes between the various countries, how could anyone possibly get a majority needed for legitimized power?) in any sense and still retain national sovereignty?

It's not like here in America, where Gov. Jerry Brown of my home state of California..."runs" California with the State Legislature, but ultimately is superseded by Obama in the grand scheme of things generally as Obama's the President (and besides, there are rights reserved to the states)...

That's a system with a state and federal level.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EU isn't a federalized body, is it?

What's more, I somehow doubt member states will appreciate or accede to the idea of being reduced to "states" in a larger EU "nation," as it were...and again, how is anyone going to be elected to this post at all?

It's not as if Alabama only votes for Alabaman candidates and New York for only New Yorkers due to the party system (for good and for bad) it's essentially a two-party system with fringe third candidates that, however good their ideas might be, won't have their voices heard no matter how many Gary Johnson or Ron Paul supporters sound off, they just get shut out, but that's another thread altogether.

The point is, states here have generally voted in regional blocs (the South used to be all-Democrat in the Electoral College, now it's all-Republican, with the possible exception of Florida, which is a swing state, while the Pacific Coast and Northeast are generally Democrat states now where the latter used to vote Republican once upon a time) with a few swing states...

But with the exception of a few (ie, Texas) and for a VERY brief period of time, none of OUR states have ever been sovereign, independent states, they began as those famous 13 little colonies-turned-states as one nation and expanded from there.

European nations generally have hundreds if not thousands of years of sovereign history to them, yes?

How is THAT going to at all be superseded by a continental leader?

To play an old stereotype--true still or not--how would the UK vote for/support a President from France?

And that's just one example...and again, even if somehow someone was so charismatic as to be elected (HOW are they being elected, anyway, popular vote via the people--if so, again, how is anyone ever going to get even close to a majority needed for legitimate rule--council vote--if so, that seems to place an inordinate amount of power in that council and put the fate of hundreds of millions in the hands of a few, which seems rather unfair--or electoral college--and you just need look here to see how much fun THAT is) how would that even begin to work with respect to national sovereignty?



Granted, again, not my continent...but that doesn't sound like a good or feasible idea.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
obiwan^2,
Note that in my proposal, this new "President" gets *zero* extra power with respect to the two functions of which I believe his office should be composed. The only thing I want to change is the way in which he is appointed: currently he is appointed after a steamy night of Franco-German lovemaking, and that only worked last time because Angela and Nicolas were of the same party. The rest of Europe had to stand by and watch as a *nobody* chairs *our* leaders. This guy (Herman van Rompuy) is so feather-light they have to physically tie him to his chair to prevent him from floating off.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
@Invictus, the only real thing the Finnish and Spanish have in common is the Euro. That's what this is all about...

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51 replies
Yonni (136 D(S))
24 Oct 12 UTC
Can anyone in Michigan explain the opposition to the new bridge?
From a Hoser's point of view, it seems like a no-brainer. Wondering if there's actually a reasonable explanation for the opposition. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/23/greedy-u-s-billionaire-urges-michigan-voters-to-reject-free-bridge-to-canada/
34 replies
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President Eden (2750 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
Gangnam Style Halloween light show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6t7oowAsGs
3 replies
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Maniac (189 D(B))
23 Oct 12 UTC
Today's weather forecast
No comment
29 replies
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Bob Genghiskhan (1238 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
Frontline's running an episode about climate change deniers.
Wow.
99 replies
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joshildinho101 (128 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
Statistical Analysis of WebDiplomacy
Any ideas?
38 replies
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King Atom (100 D)
22 Oct 12 UTC
effective strategies at a jazz club
lol guys im so cool for talking to women. hey someone plus one me because i'm an atheist. does people listen to my desperate advice on how to get babes, cause y'all can tell i constantly get laid. ok so no? thanks for the talk igoota go. isthisaneffectivestrategy?
#SEX
5 replies
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
24 Oct 12 UTC
Dear webDip,
Stop keeping me awake.
5 replies
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Gunfighter06 (224 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
Suggestion
It's probably a dumb idea, but I'll propose it anyway. A "Repeat Last Turns' Orders" button would be useful when you have a lot of units, it is towards the end of the game, and you are simply support holding across the map for a couple of turns, waiting for a draw.
1 reply
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Godwin's Law
Setting a record by being a record Nazi.
4 replies
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
23 Oct 12 UTC
The Real Debate
Jill Stein v. Gary Johnson

In other words, good v. good. Thoughts?
24 replies
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smokeout (0 DX)
24 Oct 12 UTC
more maps
vdiplomacy.net has more more maps why dosnt webdiplomacy.net?
12 replies
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Gamma (570 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
World Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=102653

We need more players.
0 replies
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Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Oct 12 UTC
The accuracy Nazi said my other thread couldn't't set a record...
Well by virtue of the reference in the subject, this thread *does* set a Godwin's Law record.
11 replies
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Arial.VU (0 DX)
23 Oct 12 UTC
War & War Diplo Game Series
Welcome to the first "War & War" Diplo game series! The first game is slated to start in 2 days, so please join fast! The game is a WTA, 2 day phase, and Full Diplomacy channel. It's a 101 pt. game, so that should help the game be a bit more selective. See you in-game! >:)

gameID=102563
3 replies
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Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
23 Oct 12 UTC
Mentors
I know you aren't allowed discuss games in progress, but is there any program set up for mentor relationships besides limited to the one SoW game? I've got the basics down but I could really use help/advice from a real veteran on what to do in the mid to end games.
20 replies
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demmahom (100 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
Surrenders
So...from what I've seen, the only way to surrender is an auto-surrender, correct? Or am I mistaken and there's a surrender button?

5 replies
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Bob Genghiskhan (1238 D)
24 Oct 12 UTC
I have a game mechanics question.
I don't know how a situation would be resolved if I supported an opponent to a space that I was contesting.
21 replies
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Sbyvl36 (439 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Mitt Romney: The 45th President
Polls and common sense are now showing that Romney will win. From the states that Obama carried in 2008, Romney has three: Indiana, North Carolina, Florida; completely locked up. He is ahead in Virginia, Colorado, and New Hampshire, and within the margin of error in Iowa, Wisconsin, Nevada, Pennsylvania. Meanwhile, all the states that went for the GOP in 2008 are Solid Romney. With 2 weeks left, Romney is in an increasingly strong position to take the White House.
35 replies
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trip (696 D(B))
23 Oct 12 UTC
The Lusthog Squad Games
Someones being naughty.
10 replies
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
24 Oct 12 UTC
Is There Any Way to Mute Posts With Certain Words?
I don't know why the word "Nazi" became so popular but, uhh, I'm not amused…

I know, I'm becoming a meme now. I'm used to shit like that.
2 replies
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Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
14 Sep 12 UTC
Gobbledydook Challenge #2
Game 2 is in the books with a 4 way draw gameID=97352
85 replies
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Marx
Out of curiosity, who here has actually read any Marx (excluding the communist manifesto) properly, and then continued to disagree with him/think his ideas crazy etc?
88 replies
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demmahom (100 D)
23 Oct 12 UTC
Vote cancel
What does voting "cancel" mean?
4 replies
Open
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