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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Jacob (2466 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
On the Proper Usage of Fleets
A question came up in another thread about how fleets should best be deployed. Should they always stay in the ocean? Are they useful in coastal territories? How many fleets should one have? Etc.. Share your thoughts within.
60 replies
Open
Nell (100 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
sitter needed
I'll be off the grid Friday - Tuesday, can anyone help me out? I'm in two games, both as Turkey. I'm not stomping in either of them but I still have a role to play in the game arc.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69323
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=69867
Thanks!
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
So now that the colonel is dead
Let's all rejoice in how NATO layed the foundations for another islamist country. Or not?
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
i believe the phrase you are looking for is democracy.

if one part of the world happens to have a majority of muslims that means they will be islamic whether that is part of national policy or not.

If you have a problem with them being muslims then you can go ahead and try to convert them... the only thing NATO can do about it is blow them up - thus making them hate NATO/western powers - or they can support them thus making them question the 'anti-american' elements in these regions of the world.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
No I would've found that word if I'd been looking for it :) islamist I believe is derived from islamism, which is the political ideology distilled from the islamic religion.
Anyway, I wonder what the future of the Arab spring is: religious extremism, modern democracy, or something in between?
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
it probably depends on your perspective.

If you want to demonize them so you can later have an easy excuse to re-invade, then i'm sure you will call it religious extremism... but then people are allowed to elected religious leaders, it's not like the US has ever been lead by an atheist.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
I don't want to demonize or invade anything. Except you, if we're in an anon game together =) I just ask if we didn't lay the foundations for sonething worse than Qadafi or better.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
i didn't say you wanted to. I meant to say, people who want to will claim that this action has created another blah blah blah... regardless of what the facts on the ground are.

If you really want to know go to Libya.
redhouse1938 (429 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Nah I'll read the papers on it. I'm pretty open: this whole Arab spring thing could turn out for the best. I /predict/ it'll be an Arab nightmare.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
why, pray tell.
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Well, a populist leader in Egypt will be a lot more likely to break the peace treaty with Israel if there's another crisis in Gaza. That's a nightmare. If the TNC can't control all of Libya effectively we could see Somalia on the Meditereanean. That's a nightmare. If the government of Bahrain is overthrown by the Shia majority Iran may intervene, which would almost inevitably cause a war between it and Saudi Arabia and the United States. That's a nightmare.

I'm less pessimistic than most that the Arab Spring will turn out OK, but there are PLENTY of realistic and plausible ways that it can all go horribly, horribly wrong.
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Yeah man, raping and torturing a guy with a knife and shooting him in the head is a sign of 'progress'. All these human rights warriors love that shit.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
so Putin who made the Libyans kill Gaddafi?

I mean, yeah, NATO planes made it possible by blowing up a significant proportion of the Colonel's military, but they didn't make a single Libyan take up arms against him, did they?
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Gaddafi was a vaguely left-wing dictator, so Putin33 will support him unconditionally. You're wasting your time trying to have an intelligent conversation with him about this.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
Gaddafi certainly portrayed himself as an anti-imperislist, fighting colonial forces world-wide, and supporting 'terrorist' freedom fighters who opposed the status quo anywhere in the western world...

Of course Putin celebrates him, but what he did internationally doesn't really affect why his people rose up against him.
Octavious (2701 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
I'm quite positive about the Libya situation to be honest. No doubt there will be plenty of unpleasentness and problems to come, but on a much smaller scale than what they've been coping with in recent months. Yes, a Libian people with a free voice may cause us some problems, but I'd much rather face these problems than have to deal with what used to exist there. These are exciting times. Best of luck to them!


I would also like to say how disappointed I was that the Colonel escaped the magnificent sword of international justice that that is the Hague holiday camp... but I'd be lying...
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Yeah, he did things like order the bombing of a Berlin disco, Lockerbie, the mining of the Red Sea, giving money and weapons to the IRA, launching a war of territorial aggression against Chad, trying to annex Tunisia by taking advantage of its senile president, and sending his military to support Idi Amin, of all people!
orathaic (1009 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
@Invictus, yeah, but if you don't listen to any western media outlet - because they are all biased - you will have to come to your own conclusions about his importance.

He was clearly quite popular in africa: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7588033.stm
N.N. (100 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Libya cannot turn into another fallen state like Somalia - too close to Europe, too much oil.
Libyans will probably do some experiments with democracy - the problem is that, while most of Muslim societies are not well adapted to European-style democracy (which is rather good for them, I think - and bad for us), 50 years of dictature and violent civil war as the "Grande Finale" create additional handicaps for democratisation
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
I bet he's not so popular in Uganda or Chad. It's easy to get the destitute to like you when you're simply throwing state money around.

Gaddafi was a menace. Good riddance.
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
The Somali Civil War began after the overthrow of a ruler who was in office for decades. Both countries have strong tribal loyalties and not much of a history of effective government (look into what nonsense a jamahiriya was). I don't think it's the most likely scenario for Libya at all, but it's totally possible.
N.N. (100 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
But still there is a little difference in Libyan case - that someone actually cares.
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Surely you know how these things work by now. The rebels were well funded before this uprising ever began. CIA talks with rebels had been going on throughout the 2000s, with the stated aim of organizing active opposition to Libya. They had shiny new tanks and shiny new machine guns. They were funded and supplied by these very same NATO powers bombing the sovereign state of Libya in a brazen act of aggression and violation of the UN charter.

The Libyan rebels were organizing out of London since 2005, through a series of conferences via NCLO (" Organizing Committee for the National Conference of the Libyan Opposition"). Several groups were involved, including Libyan monarchists which is why they use the old pro-British monarchist flag as their new flag. Also involved were the CIA-backed National Front for the Salvation of Libya. The NFSL openly operates in the United State and has for a long time. The leader of the NFSL has been trained by the US and British military. In October of 2010 Libyan opposition leaders in France lobbied France heavily for support of their scheme for 'regime change' in Libya. In December of 2010 the Tunisian uprising begins, with US trained social media activists operating out of Freedom House and similar groups "organizing" it. Similar "facebook protests" organized by Freedom House operatives are launched in Egypt (in January) and in Libya (In February). Bush admin officials *admitted* that they have been working behind the scenes to prepare for this "Arab Spring" for a long time.

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/01/almost-invisible-hand-of-us-in-tunisias.html

Beginning in January 2011, western weapons find their way to Libyan ports and in the hands of the soon to be rebels. In February of 2011, a violent protest breaks out before the scheduled facebook event in which scores of security officials are injured, but no loss of life occurs. During this violent protest outside a police station, there is a completely unconfirmed rumor of police supposedly "firing gun shots". This claim is later reported to be fake, but is reported all over social media. Which is a prelude to the violence to follow, and the excuse for an armed rebellion.

NCLO takes credit for organizing "day of rage" in Libya on Feb 17, waving the pro-British monarchy flag. More fake reports of 'government violence' are reported, including the rumor by racist asshole Ali al Isawi that black African "mercenaries" were being hired to crush the "protests". There was absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever, but it did the trick. The western media reported it as fact and the rebels used this as an excuse to lynch blacks in many cities. The idiot Al Qaeda thugs even posted these lynchings on the internet. What boggles my mind is you human rights heroes can see these brutal videos online and yet you still parrot anti-Gaddafi bullshit day in and day out and say Gaddafi deserved his rape, torture and murder and that rebels are simply "undisciplined" but have their heart in the right place.

Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
"Gaddafi was a menace. Good riddance."

Yeah, you're the same troll who cries crocodile tears when an opposition figure is precluded from holding office, but you have no problem with brutally sodomizing someone with a knife and murdering him. You're a thug.
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
"I bet he's not so popular in Uganda or Chad. I"

Uganda? Our wonderful client state? Gee I wonder why. We've been propping up Uganda for decades to do our bidding in the Congo, Sudan, and everywhere else, pouring money into the country and making it a center of destabilization for the rest of the region.

Gaddafi supported anti-colonial movements while the US and your other buddies backed the colonial forces to the last. No skin off your back, though, right?
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
"I would also like to say how disappointed I was that the Colonel escaped the magnificent sword of international justice that that is the Hague holiday camp... but I'd be lying..."

Yeah, when has a Tory ever blushed at the idea of sodomizing an opponent of British oil interests with a knife and shooting him in the head, or murdering his children and bombing orphanages.
N.N. (100 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Well, even if I cannot fully support Putin's point of view it is hard to call the whole thing "a good riddance". Although I can understand the motivations of people lynching a dictator, they could really show a little more style.
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
It's wrong to prevent your political opponents from running for office, Putin33. That's not a crazy position to hold.

I like how you totally gloss over Gaddafi's decades of terrorism and the oppression of his own people. Nope, it must have been 100% a plot from outside to overthrow him. The Libyans never had it so good as under a lunatic strongman who ruled for 42 years and would rather tear the state down than democratize, as he was given a chance to early on.

As for his killing, it's far from ideal. I would rather the Libyans had tried him in their own system so that there was some national catharsis. But feeling sorry for Gaddafi being killed by the people he brutalized fro decades is like feeling sorry for Jeffry Dalhmer being killed in prison.
Invictus (240 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
So Putin33 supports Idi Amin. Not exactly surprising, but still a bit shocking.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
26 Oct 11 UTC
The Colonel is a typical example of US foreign policy gone wrong.

They out a dictator in a country and he gets replaced by someone worse then him.

Also the way they killed him was a war crime and he the rebels should be persecuted for the same reasons that the tamels were in sir lanka for the same reasons.
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
"It's wrong to prevent your political opponents from running for office, Putin33. That's not a crazy position to hold."

Yeah if you actually held it. You're fine with raping and murdering political opponents as long as those opponents are also the opponents of US grand strategy. Kissinger would be proud.

"I like how you totally gloss over Gaddafi's decades of terrorism and the oppression of his own people."

Yeah the "oppression" of free healthcare, education, and subsidized housing. The "oppression" of a secular constitution with female equality in a region completely hostile to such things. Gee, what wouldn't I give, especially if I was a destitute person living in a third world country, for such "oppression".

But to you "oppression" is anything that hurts US oil companies or that doesn't involve shiny corporate made campaign placards. Actual living standards be damned.

" Nope, it must have been 100% a plot from outside to overthrow him. "

When have you ever actually considered the evidence for anything? All you do is parrot the standard state department and big media line on every single issue.

"would rather tear the state down than democratize, as he was given a chance to early on."

Yeah like the 5 times he asked the rebels for a cease fire and save removal from the country. But your Al Qaeda heroes who were so keen on "democracy" turned him now. Now they're being creating a sharia law state and releasing jihadist fighters from prison. Congratulations.
Putin33 (111 D)
26 Oct 11 UTC
now - down; save - safe, being = busy.
Fasces349 (0 DX)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Wait, do me and Putin actually agree on something for once. LOL

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63 replies
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
American War of Independence: A Patriotic Myth?
See below:
16 replies
Open
sirKristof (15 DX)
25 Oct 11 UTC
admin: game check please
Hi, could you please check this game for me?
http://95.211.128.12/webdiplomacy/board.php?gameID=68347&nocache=85
some of the moves of the other 3 guys look a bit suspicious considering its a gunboat!
11 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
25 Oct 11 UTC
Mods: it is vitally important I get the answers to these questions
What server is this?
What is this site about?
How do I play?
What are those green circles next to peoples names?
16 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 Oct 11 UTC
lalalala
https://sites.google.com/site/webdiplomacylinks/

i hope to update this regularly, any contributions will be much appreciated - pm me if you want to contribute.
7 replies
Open
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
26 Oct 11 UTC
Russia 1902 builds
I have a scenario for everyone that I just want their opinions on. In general, I'm terrible as Russia and the 1902 builds always trick me up.
18 replies
Open
hwh2219 (0 DX)
25 Oct 11 UTC
sitter needed
See inside
2 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
25 Oct 11 UTC
Perry's new voluntary tax.
Sorry, Perry fans, but a voluntary tax seems to be a bad idea. Discuss it here.
16 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
The most aesthetically pleasing sight on a diplomacy board.
For me, its a 7 SC Austria controlling all the Balkans in the middle game. I don't know why, it just looks good. Share your own thoughts here.
23 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
06 Oct 11 UTC
Dear Occupy Wall Street Protestors:
Get a job or, failing that, get a LIFE.
Promotion of Power and Self-Interest are the motivating factors in human decision-making, and have been since we made the first fires and sharpened the first spears. Yo're not going to override human nature, you're just making asses of yourselves...set REALISTIC goals or set yourself to the task of misery (if its the latter, enjoy...I know I will.)
338 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
26 Oct 11 UTC
Gunboat 1-10-11 Debriefing gameID=69019
gameID=69019
Fun game, lucky ending. Hey, guak in Austria, it's like you were reading my mind. :-)
2 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
19 Oct 11 UTC
Make Your Bid for webDip F2F 2012!
The Boston F2F was so amazing, I really want it to happen again.
I think the best way is for interested people to make bids (like the Olympics, but less corruption) for Event Coordinator (EC) and Tournament Director (TD). Please take your bids seriously. As Crazyter and I can tell you, this is an immense undertaking. See inside for more details.
51 replies
Open
WhiteSammy (132 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Darwin Award In Training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bFBrwgB8Vw
1 reply
Open
ILN (100 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Live world diplo
If you wanna play world diplo live, leave a message below, game will probably be Friday(oct 28) or Saturday(oct 29)
0 replies
Open
KyleFC (917 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
Interested in a game?
So I just found out an old friend also plays Diplomacy and I've introduced him to the site. We've decided a live game on Thursday probably around 11am est would work best for his first game here, so I'm trying to find quality players who won't nmr. I haven't decided on specifics so far except for day and time so input is welcomed. If interested send me a pm or post below.
1 reply
Open
Believe I found a multi. Two games of possible evidence.
Where do I report it?
7 replies
Open
SacredDigits (102 D)
25 Oct 11 UTC
The most important clarification I could request
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Broncos-Tim-Tebow-Rookie-Game-Worn-Used-Pants-Team-COA-/260873933810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbd4c53f2

When they say, "Throughout the pants there are multiple hit marks, stains, and tears," do they mean tears like parts that were ripped or tears like crying? I prefer the latter explanation.
3 replies
Open
Pete U (293 D)
13 Oct 11 UTC
Who fancies a game then?
WTA, 2 days min phase, anon - if there's enough interest I'll set it up.
30 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
24 Oct 11 UTC
War on Terror
I had a professor today make the claim that the US let Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders flee into Pakistan from Afghanistan in order to enable the "War on Terror". Thoughts on that?
60 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
24 Oct 11 UTC
hilarity of the day
My little sister, 16, who I've always found to be a sharp young woman, mentioned today that she does not really know which months go in which order, something that to me seems should be a given part of any education. When I asked her, "Well, what the heck were they teaching you in 2nd grade?" she giggled and replied, "Jesus."

Good thing those private schools have their priorities straight, eh?
56 replies
Open
WhiteSammy (132 D)
24 Oct 11 UTC
Future of Gaming?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY
12 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
24 Oct 11 UTC
The Dubious Assertion thread
Bush personally ordered 9-11
The earth is 6000 years old
Poor people are lazy
Society owes me an above average lifestyle
20 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
22 Oct 11 UTC
For all you religious types out there...
Question: is it more sinful to get a gay divorce than it is to get gay married? I mean, say you get gay married, BAM! You're going to hell for sure, right? But then you realize the error of your ways, and decide you want a gay divorce to get back into God's graces... but divorce is a sin too!

So is it better at that point to just stay gay married? Or is the the flames no matter what? I'm so confused...
68 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 DX)
23 Oct 11 UTC
Russia-US Rail Link
The BBC have released this article/video ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15387714 ) detailing outlines for a Russian plan to link Russia with the US by an underground train tunnel link across the Bering Strait. Despite the cost, it sounds amazing! What do the rest of you think?
81 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
22 Oct 11 UTC
You're Welcome!
You need one of these in your head. More after the break.
11 replies
Open
ulytau (541 D)
23 Oct 11 UTC
Steven Pinker on A History Of Violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MfYlSBbp0k4

Since this forum seems to lack in optimism, trust in institutions like government control over violence, courts and modern society in general, this rather long video by professor Pinker seems like a good thing to post here. Anarchists, watch out!
9 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
24 Oct 11 UTC
An interesting little "bug" that could affect GR...
So, this game (gameID=64994) was drawn in the last half hour (around 9:45am), yet the time stamp says it ended at 5:30pm Eastern last night.

If this had been the first, instead of the 24th, this game could have been included in the previous month's GR. Something seems amiss there.
15 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
22 Oct 11 UTC
Leaving soon
Okay guys it will be maybe one or two more times that I get on till the beginning of December. Stratagos has volunteered to sit my two games, so thank you. I will not be a mod during this time, obviously. Good luck to everyone and have fun in the interim.
75 replies
Open
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