I don't know, Eden, it still seems so ODD to me...

I mean, there's what, about 8 billion people on Earth?

What makes them think God not only too a special interest in them, but a special interest in something so mundane as their getting an A on a test or theri team winning the college playoffs or their getting the job they applied for...or sometimes just thanking him, and then when I ask why, they just give a bunch of rhetorical reasons, ie, "He's always with me..."



Now, I can understand thanking God or a higher power if, say, a loved one just pulled through a medical crisis--I've been there, and yeah, if it's THAT tense, even if it's not logical and even if you're not sure you really believe it, it's sometimes nice to ahve the diea someone might be watching out and can help you, so when the good news comes, you want to give thanks, even if out of relief.

Or if a miracle occurs, something really spectacular, like finding a twin you were seperated from 20 years ago.

THEN I can see it a bit more...

But for normall, every day things?

Why 1. don't they think they can/did do it alone and 2. what makes them think, frankly, that God CARES that they passed Biology 101?

I think sometimes it isn't about God specifically having a role, but rather them thanking God for creating them, and endowing them with the traits that have led them to the successes they've had.

Six billion, but once you pass a couple billion it's a number. ;P

Thing is, their God is supposedly so powerful and loving he can actually manage to give a shit about six billion human beings. (In my opinion, if this is so, he has a funny way of showing it.)

I guess...though I'd still ask why they're tahnking God and not their moms and dads...

Though if god made Adam and Eve--allegedly--then I guess he indirectly made everyone.

That's the point.

"I mean, there's what, about 8 billion people on Earth?

What makes them think God not only too a special interest in them, but a special interest in something so mundane as their getting an A on a test "

i think it's about being humble, by attributing their results to God.

The christian idea of doing 'all for the glory of god' is based in the notion of humbleness. However i believe you'll find that the 'God is one my side' aspect of things is the very opposite of humbleness.

On the other hand, acknowledging that everything is part of the one interconnected whole, and thus nothing which happens is as a result of 'free will' merely that the Universe is, seems to be a meaningful statement. Though thanks are not required by an interconnected whole, and i believe those who thank God believe in a separate entity which is not part of this interconnected whole... at least that is the impression i get from talking to atheists (cause they know their enemy! so they must be the ones to talk to about this stuff...)

Hey Obiwan,
Well, I guess I'll bite (though if this turns controversial, be warned I don't have time over the next few days to come defend anything, so it's not because I'm backing down. :-P).
Anyway, to your question. Some of this will be repetition of what went before. Let's say I do well on a test. It's true that I probably worked hard and studied, and have natural abilities. But it's also true that I believe God works in every detail of history, including my own birth and attributes, my ability and focus to work hard and study for the test, my being at school to take the test, the fact that I got into that course and not another (where maybe the test would have been unreasonable), the things that didn't go wrong that would have distracted me from studying for the test, etc., etc., etc. He ultimately decided that I would do well on the test (in the context, obviously, of a vast web of historical, present, and future events that I cannot fathom).
As for why He would care: well, omniscient beings can care about a lot of things all at once, and He has explicitly said that He cares about the small, and about details of our lives, so that is why I would think that. As Eden implied, albeit sarcastically, our normal scales of mundane and important don't make much sense to Someone who can hold it all in His mind at once. Of course some things might be more important than others -- they clearly are -- but they're all important at some level, and it's not like He has to prioritize.

I hope this helped. I've thought about this stuff a great deal myself.

Firstly I need to state that this is a matter of faith, but then again so is unalloyed atheism (!)

Moving on, very briefly my take on it is that we (humanity/Man) are engaged in a cooperative effort with both one another and God to bring about a better world. It is true that God encompasses the ''all'' word, being both omnipresent and omnipotent, and yet He chooses to engage with us in this task. It is in this context that the hypothesis of free will becomes vitally crucial. Therefore, as much as some people might describe the issue as ''Man in search of God'', I would turn it around and say that it is just as much a case of ''God in search of Man''. What a fantastic potential for the fulfillment of our own individual lives this idea carries with it.

Religion, Is a very touchy subject worldwide. Almost, which kind of means not everyone, has some kind of religious beliefs. Rather it is the belief that Christ is the son of God and is the Saviour. That gave his life to show his father that only a perfect being could not sin. While dying he still asked his father to forgive all of those that do sin here on earth. At that moment and for as long as God allows the earth to survive. That through his blood that was spilled that day. That all of mankind could be forgiving if they choose to repent and ask for forgiveness.

The other religions are a little more strange to me. However, many do have similarities. For example, don't hold me to this because some of it could be wrong, Catholic religion has to do with Mary, the birth mother of Jesus Christ. Not 100% sure of all the details but the fact she was chosen to carry the son of God makes her the one you should ask for forgiveness.

The Karan (not sure of the spelling) has to do with the fact that they believe that Ismail, the first son of Abraham, is the true blood line to the Messiah not Issac. Which then according to the same God, which is a jealous God, said not to worship any other God before him. Which means that the Christians are worshiping a false religion.

Israel, the land of God's chosen people, never did believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. So much so they asked the Romans to toucher him until he confessed that he wasn't. As you know it never happened. Their belief of this was so strong, and the fact they wanted to prove him wrong, they let him die.

Then you could add Atheist. A belief that there is no one and only God. Which Christians would call non believers. Wiccan (not sure how to spell that one either) which in some ways is more tied to what some call karma. Some have told me that they believe in the power of magic and witchcraft and even demons but not in angles. Peer hearsay on that one.

I was raise a Christan. Baptist and Pentecostal mostly. Which in itself is kind of two different religion of Christianity. So what I have said of the other religions I am sure I have some of it miscued. However, according to what I have learned about my religion. You prey to God. God answers prays. However, for him to do so you must believe that he will in his time and keep the faith that he will answer it.

About them thanking God for the A in Biology. They might have preyed for the grade for some reason. If they get the intended outcome it seem they feel it is only fitting to thank him for answering that prey. The outcome might have been all to do with the fact they felt a belief that everything was going to be OK. This might have made it possible to sleep better the night before, concentrate a little easier during the exam, or even gave them the confidence they needed for themselves. All of which is only possible because God created the Heavens and the Earth. Then made man and gave him life.

The football game or sporting event is a little bit tougher. I am sure in all most all sporting events there are those that prey for both sides. Of course half (the losing side) of their prayers are not answered so to say. Does that mean God doesn't like them or that they were more sinners or non believers. I personally don't think so. The outcome of the game seems to really always boil down to personal pressure. Either the ones the players put upon themselves, Coaches feel that alters their decisions, or even the self confidence that is effected by an outcome of a play or plays. I am confident that prays are answered during the game. One example would be the one of not getting hurt. Then there are those that prey that exact prayer and yet do get hurt. According to my religion this might have a higher purpose. Maybe changes your life in a whole new way. Might even be an answer to a pray that you preyed about when you first set off to college. Like rather or not they would decide to go pro and make that their life. The injury could and might lead you in another path for you to meet that special someone you preyed to meet when you were a teenager. Just some examples I am sure there are all kinds of other was to look at how an injury could change your life.

That seem to be the one issue most people have. They think it is a instant thing. Preying and the answering of prayers. God said he would answer your prayers but in his way and in his time. To question it is not believing and thus your prayers cannot be answered.

To finish I would like to add that, solely in my opinion, your suppose to thank (praise) God no matter what happens in your life. The good thing and even what seems to be the bad things. He is the reason you have life.

If I was to guess what the world would be like without religion or some kind of belief. I would have to say anarchy. I we all felt that there was no reason of consequence to what we do then there might never be any hope for any of us. To me people would do whatever they chose and only pay if they are caught by man. That would be a scary world to live in.

"If I was to guess what the world would be like without religion or some kind of belief. I would have to say anarchy. I we all felt that there was no reason of consequence to what we do then there might never be any hope for any of us. To me people would do whatever they chose and only pay if they are caught by man. That would be a scary world to live in."

I don't need an invisible man in the sky to tell me robbing, raping, ransacking, razing and repeatedly murdering is wrong. Furthermore my life has been far more fulfilling from an intellectual, emotional, and philosophical standpoint ever since I left religion... and it's not because I drowned myself in mindless pleasures like I'm sure the Baptist preachers would have you think. I grew up in there too.

The simple fact is that unless your sect of Baptism holds that human beings are controlled by something else distinctly not them, people *already* do whatever they choose, and if it's wrong, they only pay if they're caught by man. The fact that your God supposedly balances the books in heaven doesn't seem to be much deterrent to immorality today. And frankly, if I only know for sure I have one life to live, it's a sucker's game to swear that life over to something else on the inherently unverifiable promise that I get another one when the first one runs out. I've got one life, I'll live it according to the values I pick up throughout my life and try to do what's best for me and the people for whom I care.

@timdcoltsfan I'm afraid you have Catholics Wrong. In the Catholic Church, Jesus is the only way to salvation, everyone was saved through Jesus (even Mary "My soul proclaims the Glory of the Lord and my Spirit rejoices in God my SAVIOUR" (Luke)) Jesus is the atoning sacrifice. Jesus and only Jesus.

When I was growing up, our family was not very religious. I went to Catholic School (it is publicly funded here in Ontario due to a constitutional quirk), so I learnt all of the teachings, but I never really had a relationship with Jesus. I didn't pray and I even used the scriptures to excuse me from going to Church 'When you pray go into your closet' (well I didn't pray in my closet either).

I went to a public high school, and there I started hanging out with some people who went to a Christian youth group. At that point I was (and still am) really into Science, so I was treating the concept of God as a hypotheses to explain morality. But I didn't know that Jesus wanted a relationship with me. As I attended the Youth group I started reading the Bible, started praying and came back to Church. In that season of my life I came to a greater understanding of God and the Church, both intellectually and emotionally. Now I am an active member of the Catholic Church and try to seek what God wants in my life and I am grateful for his whole creation.

If we truly believe that God is our Creator, why should we not be thankful to him for things that we do ourselves?

whether god "gives a shit" or not, god is seen to have granted everything you have all your abilities, he didnt wave a magic wand to give you an A+ or close your hands around the football, but he provided you with the brain that synthesized the info and the body that responded well to athletic training, and granted you the ability to see the day.

In other words, Obi, you are centered around the self, if you were a religious person you would be centered around god. You see whatever knowledge you have to be your own property, something you own and no one else has a claim to, religious people see all their abilities, including intelligence as being granted by god

"All the other religions seem strange to me"

From a protestant. Funny

I suppose some Christians believe that God is deeply involved in everyones' daily life, and wants to acknowledge God appropriately. However, I think thanking God is a prayer of thanksgiving and should not be done in public, as per The Bible's instructions regarding prayer.

where does the bible say that?

Obi,

Here's some "why" for you on this subject, and some clarification. (I'll try to keep it brief as I have a tendency to post really long posts)

First off, if you start from the Christian belief that God is a deeply personal God and that he created every person with the intent that His creation would bring Him glory (which would be the source of their joy), then every aspect of those created being's lives would be of interest to their Creator. The analogy often used is the parent child relationship. The child doesn't go to the parent for just the really big stuff. The child talks to the parent about anything and everything. "Daddy, look at the picture I drew of you!" which turns out to be nothing more than six different crayon scribbles that look like spaghetti on the piece of paper, but the father still takes a genuine interest, and the picture goes up on the refrigerator because the father is proud of the child.

The difference is that God, unlike a human father, is able to pay attention to everything, and loves unconditionally even when we screw up. Which brings me to another christian belief that every "good" thing we do is a steaming pile in God's eyes, because we are rebellious. Thus when a christian is born-again, they have abandoned the idea that they can do anything on their own, and have traded their "righteousness" for the offer of Jesus Christ's righteousness (and his payment of the death penalty they deserved for rebellion) in place of theirs, which is what makes Christians righteous in God's eyes. This doesn't make Christians perfect, but when God looks at us He only sees Christ's perfect life. God doesn't leave us where we were either, He begins to transform us to be more like Christ, changing our desires and motivations, and ultimately our actions for the good.

Thus we thank God out of gratitude for what He has done for us, recognizing that anything we do of ourselves (for the purpose of showing ourselves righteous) is worthless in God's eyes. Imagine a 4 year old trying to go to his paren'ts workplace and do things by himself to help pay the mortgage. Typically the kid would be getting in the parent's way, making things harder. I imagine God finds a fair bit of what we try to do for ourselves rather comical in this manner. Now on the flip side, God did create us with talents and abilities, and the ability to take care of ourselves (to some extent) thus he expects us to use those ability and talents wisely and for His glory, but we still thank Him for giving us those talents and abilities, and the foresight or motivation to use those well. Those abilities and talents however are worthless when we try to use them to show ourselves as righteous to God, but they can be used to bring honor to Him.

Hope that helped explain some of the "why" to you..

I believe in Matthew.

Well this very's depending on the religion, the big 3 main western religions seem to be convinced that God has written everything that is going to happen down, so when something good happens to you its because God wanted it to happen.

@ Joey1

You have a very refreshing view for a catholic. I'm much more used to the hispanic "cultural" treatment of catholicism. Few of the people I know who are catholic are catholic by faith, instead they are catholic by "culture" and the religious "righteousness" they profess is far from the Jesus and Jesus only that you profess.

Thanks for the refreshing statement of faith..

@Lief_Syverson - This seams to be the classic Protestant view (correct me if I am wrong) as a Catholic I see it a little different. We see that humanity was created not only as good but as 'very good' (Gen 1). So when you see the wonders of nature and see how wondrous they are, consider that God has created you even better then that. We have turned away and been corrupted by sin, but instead of God only seeing us as just because of Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross, we put more emphasis on his indwelling with us. God became man so that man could become as God. Jesus Christ united to humanity so that we can be united to God. Therefore it is not just a screen that God looks through, but our very beings that are being transformed. Christ just doesn't come over top of us, but he comes within us and transforms us.

The Catholic church needs to evangelize its own. We have a long way to go.

The bible quote in question...
Matthew 6:5-6:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

@ Santa

dexter answered that for you.

"All the other religions seem strange to me"

Probably because, from your summaries, you seem to have the most tenuous grasp of what those religions are about. This might be because the information you have obtained about other religions has come from the Baptist/Pentecostal environment in which you were raised, and that lens appears to have distorted your teachers' view of those religions (whether by coincidence or design I wouldn't like to speculate). I would highly recommend seeking out some impartial material on those other religions if you want to understand them.

On a side note, from an atheist perspective your opening paragraph sets out the most unlikely set of propositions, and then your next sentence reads "All the other religions seem strange to me". A perfect punchline - priceless!

We have to thank God because goodness happens out of God's will. You can either give the glory to yourself, or to God. The choice is yours. One is ego and the other is not.

Well, those are all interesting answers and ideas... :)

"unless God REALLY CARES if you got that A+, why thank him?"
He really *does* care about if you got an A+ because everything that you hear and go through and experience is shaping your character and forming you as a human. He has a specific plan for each and every person. He has it planned down to the most minuscule detail. it all works out to bring joy to Himself.

yes the heroin addicts death brings much joy