Why should his divinity qualify his philosophy rather than its own merit? Dismissing an argument because it has some traits in the divine seems just as silly as accepting an argument because it's "qualified" by faith.

**popcorn**

amended:

http://adaptershack.com/m/files/www.portalversus.com.br_wp-content_uploads_michael-jackson-popcorn.gif

better question: why are we talking about a man we can know so little about?

we dont know shit abt Jesus

some of the stuff they wrote about him in some of those gospels is quite nice but thats all we do know. we dont even know if he really ever said it.

Just let them be stupid. They'll all realize they're wrong eventually.

Isn't a Jesus just a Mexican?

dont know about that. lol.

What I find funny are white supremacists who are Christian and hate Jews, despite Jesus being a Jew and almost certainly a brownish colour.

hey you spelled color wrong

lol

oh, Thucy.

Hey, you can't capitalise correctly.

colour is appropriate English spelling. Usually done on the east cost and Europe, but it is correct spelling. Like armour.

Because we stayed true to the Empire! :D

I have a question:
When a good chunk of the biblical stories have been proven false, how can you still take it as the word of god?

The concept of a God is above human 'proofs'? haha

"When a good chunk of the biblical stories have been proven false, how can you still take it as the word of god? "

Because they are not false, it's just the Devil trying to test your faith, like fossils (or so fundies say).

@ Fasces

Surely the answer to that is obvious? God lies :p.

To be fair, God is pretty open about the Bible not being a 100% factual text. He did put a bucketload of poetry in the middle, as a bit of a hint. The blatent contradictions are also pretty mega clues in this regard. God gave us brains before He gave us the Bible. To use one without the other would be foolish.

Oh, I don't know... It seems to me, however, that passionate true-believer sort of support of a sports team is also rather common... and with far less reason behind it than religion. 'Tis human nature, I imagine... to have faith, be tribal, believe passionately, hate all the doubters and the rivals, etc. ...and nothing is effective against such passions - including a rational argument. Not to say there's any harm in trying.

what i feel like is there is merit in religion, but as most things, people take it to far and the original meaning gets twisted or perverted. Whether or not the bible is all accurate or not, we need to see the values in it and understand that people can postively shape their lives with religion.
It's like Pascal's Gamble, whatever happens happens, but i don't think there is any harm in believing in Christianity. its when you let it control your life or where you try to control others with it is where it gets nasty.

@Octavious, I thought it was the devil (the serpent) that gave us brains ("knowledge"). ...and essentially, we received our first harsh (and ongoing) punishment from God for not exercising blind faith and following his command against gaining knowledge.

The premise/question itself is so full of flaws it isn't worth the debate....none the less, I will make a few corrections for Mr. Putin.

"Jesus had a hard time getting people (even his own handful of followers) to believe in his divinity while alive" This is just flat out wrong. Red the scriptures....people traveled from far and wide just to touch the hem of his gown seeking his divine healing. The doubt among his own followers was not all inclusive...hence "dounting Thomas" is a phrase because Thomas doubted him. What you call "doubt" was actually a misunderstanding of his purpose...to set up a Kingdom, which they thought meant overthrow of the local government, when in fact is meant the overthrow of death itself. You are simply wrong here. But in terms of numbers, there are documented accounts of him converting *thousands* of people at a time. By the time of his death, he has recruited such a huge following that he WAS put to death by the politcally-motivated Sanhedrin because they feared his rising power.

"his own followers betrayed him to the Sanhedrin" ONE follower did, not his follower"S". Nice try. NOT.

"fell asleep right before he arrested," they stayed awake all night while Jesus went off purposely ALONE to pray. that they, left alone, NOT KNOWING what would happen, fell asleep is hardly a sin...this is kind of a ridiculous jab.

"fled when he was arrested" Because they didn't want to be arrested...because they were human beings and they were scared.

"were no where to be found after this death" Really? Hmmm...actually they were all hanging out together. Dead wrong here, again.

"Why was it left to random women to find his "empty tomb"? Random woman? Haa ha ha! Sad. Mary was hardly a "random" woman. She was part of his crew. Come on...get real man. Perhaps you are demonstrating your extreme sexism in thinking there is something wrong with a woman - a close friend, at that - being the one to find his empty tomb. What a ridiculous attempt this one is...sigh....I hope they get better Putin, because this is sad.

"Why did he die so quickly during the crucifixion" Do you have *ANY* idea what was done to him PRIOR TO the crucifixion? Tell you what...let me scrouge you...let me beat you to within an inch of your life with a cat-o-nine tails imbedded with shards of glass and iron to tear the flesh off your body. Let me then deprive you of food or medical aid. Then I'll make you drag a big old cross up a hill until you fall from exhaustion. THEN I'll hang you on said cross.

Putin...your kind of an ass in general, but this is just pathetic.

The premise of your question can only assume the Biblical account as it's basis...and you clearly have either never read the Bible, or are picking and choosing your facts.

@ Dexter

Maybe so, but it was God that gave us the devil, so it all comes from Him one way or the other.

"Why should his divinity qualify his philosophy rather than its own merit? Dismissing an argument because it has some traits in the divine seems just as silly as accepting an argument because it's "qualified" by faith."

I'm not making any commentary on his philosophy. Most (all?) Christians believe in the divinity of Jesus. I'm wondering why they believe such a thing.

You are forgetting about Pentecost. It was at Pentecost when the Spirit of Truth came upon them that they understood 'All things'.

"This is just flat out wrong."

Really, explain John 6 59:61, where his own disciplines walk away in disbelief after he goes on a speech about his flesh is the "bread from heaven".

There is also the case of Jesus condemning his own disciples for their lack of faith (Mathew 17:17), because they could not successfully do an exorcism.

In Mark 31, Peter openly confronts Jesus about his claim to be killed and resurrected. Jesus calls him "Satan" for obstructing God's will.

In Mark 8 Jesus has a fit because even after his supposed sorcery of "creating bread" to feed the "500", his disciples begin to panic about a lack of bread.

In John 3 Jesus lectures his secret disciple, Nicodemus, about being "born again", who has doubts about what Jesus is talking about.

"Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you (L)the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, (M)we speak of what we know and (N)testify of what we have seen, and (O)you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?"

"his own followers betrayed him to the Sanhedrin" ONE follower did, not his follower"S". Nice try. NOT."

Peter denied knowing Jesus three times, did he not? It's not just Judas who pointed out who Jesus was. But Peter had been Jesus's most loyal disciple (Jesus's "rock"), and swore he would rather die than betray Jesus. Yet he did.

"fled when he was arrested" Because they didn't want to be arrested...because they were human beings and they were scared."

The claim to be followers of this God in human form, who supposedly can perform miracles and other sorcery, and they're afraid? They're supposedly willing to die for their "faith" after the fact (so we're told) but yet they run for the hills while Jesus is alive, in their leader's time of need?

"Really? Hmmm...actually they were all hanging out together. Dead wrong here, again."

Yeah, the women told them about the stone being moved and the missing body the disciples didn't believe it (Luke 24). Which again buttresses my point about the disciples not believing Jesus's divinity. This supposed miracle-worker evidently didn't do enough magic to convince them.

"By the time of his death, he has recruited such a huge following that he WAS put to death by the politcally-motivated Sanhedrin because they feared his rising power."

Such a huge following that the Book of Acts numbers the followers of Christ after his death to be a mere 120. (Acts 1:15).

He was leading riots and physically attacking the Temple yeah. The Roman authorities didn't find him to be particularly troublesome. In fact Pilate wanted him released. So his sect was a bother to the Temple cult in Jerusalem and the priests who benefited from it, nothing more.

" Tell you what...let me scrouge you...let me beat you to within an inch of your life with a cat-o-nine tails imbedded with shards of glass and iron to tear the flesh off your body. Let me then deprive you of food or medical aid. Then I'll make you drag a big old cross up a hill until you fall from exhaustion. THEN I'll hang you on said cross. "

The fact is most records of crucifixions have people dying after several days. Even Pontius Pilate was surprised that Jesus died so quickly (Mark 15:44).

@Octavious...do some research first, God didn't give us the devil, the devil is a fallen angel that tried to take power from God because he wanted more than what he was getting, God didn't create him to be that way.

@Putin...if you heard someone say that they were an alien, and they gave you the signs and said it and performed out of this world things, some people would still not believe them and think it a bunch of magic. Regardless of how much information you put out there to try and get people to believe, they don't have to and some never will even with all the facts clearly pointing to it. Case in point...radical muslims that try to convince the world the holocaust never happened. we have pictures to prove it, but they still don't believe it. if there are people like that today that won't believe off of pictures and historical proof, then of course not everyone was going to believe Jesus when he came saying He was God's Son. To think He could just magically make everyone believe and not give them that choice to follow would be absurd and take all faith out of the religion in the first place.

@Putin...question. have you ever lied to make sure you didn't get in trouble? Have you ever had trouble believing in anything? I know you'll answer yes to both of these, so why are Jesus disciples held to a higher un-human standard? They were still human after all.

Wasn't Jesus stabbed with a spear in the gut while he was hanging up there?

@Kingdroid...yes, to make sure he was already dead. It's commonly believed he had died before that though.