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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
13 May 11 UTC
Battle Hymm of WebDip: Union vs. Confederacy, Based On Residence?
Anyone up for some Games, er, a War Between the States?
North/Pacific Coast WebDip Players vs. Southern/Midwestern (below Missouri) Players?
Ideas for formatting and structure...open...anyone with ideas/interest in this?
28 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
13 May 11 UTC
Live Gunboat
Tonight, EDT, probably like 9 ish. Ideally a high pot. Anyone interested?

It's been a while for me to play live and would love a good game.
46 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
War is Peace
War is also un-ending
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Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
The White House's 'death of bin Laden' story has come apart at the seams. Will it make any difference that before 48 hours had passed the story had changed so much that it no longer bore any resemblance to President Obama's Sunday evening broadcast and has lost all credibility?

So far it has made no difference to the once-fabled news organization, the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), which on March 9, eight days later, is still repeating the propaganda that the SEALs killed bin Laden in his Pakistani compound, where bin Laden lived next door to the Pakistani Military Academy surrounded by the Pakistani army.

Not even the president of Pakistan finds the story implausible. The BBC reports that the president is launching a full-scale investigation of how bin Laden managed to live for years in an army garrison town without being noticed.

For most Americans the story began and ended with four words: 'we got bin Laden.' The celebrations, the sweet taste of revenge, of triumph and victory over 'the most dangerous man on the planet' are akin to the thrill experienced by sports fans when their football team defeats the unspeakable rival or their baseball team wins the World Series. No fan wants to hear the next day that it is not so, that it is all a mistake. If these Americans years from now come across a story that the killing of bin Laden was an orchestrated news event to boost other agendas, they will dismiss the report as the ravings of a pinko-liberal-commie.

Everyone knows we killed bin Laden. How could it be otherwise? We – the indispensable people, the virtuous nation, the world's only superpower, the white hats – were destined to prevail. No other outcome was possible.

No one will notice that those who fabricated the story forgot to show the kidney dialysis machine that, somehow, kept bin Laden alive for a decade. No doctors were on the premises.

No one will remember that Fox News reported in December, 2001, that Osama bin Laden had passed away from his illnesses. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html)

If bin Laden beat all odds and managed to live another decade to await, unarmed and undefended, the arrival of the Navy SEALS last week, how it is possible that the 'terror mastermind,' who defeated not merely the CIA and FBI, but all 16 US intelligence agencies along with those of America's European allies and Israel, the National Security Council, the Pentagon, NORAD, Air Traffic Control, airport security four times on the same morning, etc. etc., never enjoyed another success, not even a little, very minor one? What was the 'terror mastermind' doing for a decade after 9/11?

The 'death of bin Laden' serves too many agendas that cover the political spectrum for the obvious falsity of the story to be recognized by very many. Patriots are euphoric that America won over bin Laden. Progressives have seized on the story to excoriate the United States for extra-judicial murder that brutalizes us all. Some on the left-wing bought into the 9/11 story because of the emotional satisfaction they received from oppressed Arabs striking back at their imperialist oppressors. These left-wingers are delighted that it took the incompetent Americans an entire decade to find bin Laden, who was hiding in plain view. The American incompetence in finding bin Laden simply, in their minds, proves the incompetence of the US government, which failed to protect Americans against the 9/11 attack.

Those who ordered, and those who wrote, totally incompetent legal memos that torture was permissible under US and international law, thereby setting up George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for the possibility of prosecution, are riding the euphoria of bin Laden's death by declaring that it was torture that led the American assassins to bin Laden. All of a sudden, torture, which had fallen back into the disrepute in which it had been for centuries, is again in the clear. Anything that leads to the elimination of bin Laden is a valid instrument.

Those, who want to increase the pressure on Pakistan to shut up about Americans murdering Pakistani citizens in Pakistan from the air and from troops on the ground, have gained a new club with which to beat the Pakistani government into submission: 'you hid bin Laden from us.'

Those who want to continue to fatten the profits of the military/security complex and the powers of Homeland Security, such as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, use bin Laden's second, or ninth, death as proof that America is being successful in its war on terror and that the war must continue on such a successful path until all enemies are slain.

Most ominous of all was the statement by the CIA director that bin Laden's death would lead to new attacks on America and new 9/11s from al Qaeda seeking revenge. This warning, issued within a few hours of President Obama's Sunday evening address, telegraphed the inevitable 'al Qaeda' Internet posting that America would suffer new 9/11s for killing their leader.

If the Taliban knew in December 2001 that bin Laden was dead, does anyone think that al Qaeda didn't know it? Indeed, no member of the public has any way of knowing if al Qaeda is anything more than a bogyman organization created by the CIA which issues 'al Qaeda' announcements. The evidence that al Qaeda's announcements are issued by the CIA is very strong. The various videos of bin Laden for the last nine years have been shown by experts to be fakes. Why would bin Laden issue a fake video? Why did bin Laden cease issuing videos and only issue audios? A person running a world-wide terrorist organization should be able to produce videos. He would also be surrounded by better protectors than a couple of women. Where was al Qaeda, which according to former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, consists of 'the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.' Had these most dangerous men alive abandoned their leader?

The CIA director's warning of future terrorist attacks, followed by a suspect 'al Qaeda' threat of the same, suggests that if the American public continues to lose its enthusiasm for the governments open-ended wars, which are conducted at the expense of the US budget deficit, the dollar's exchange value, inflation, Social Security, Medicare, income support programs, jobs, recovery, and so forth, 'al Qaeda' will again outwit all 16 US intelligence agencies, those of our allies, NORAD, airport security, Air Traffic Control, etc. etc., and inflict the world's only superpower with another humiliating defeat that will invigorate American support for 'the war on terror.'

I believe that 'al Qaeda' could blow up the White House or Congress or both and that the majority of Americans would fall for the story, just as the Germans, a better educated and more intelligent population, fell for the Reichstag Fire – as did a number of historians.

The reason I say this is that Americans have succumbed to propaganda that has conditioned them to believe that they are under attack by practically omnipotent adversaries. Proof of this is broadcast every day. For example, on March 9, I heard over National Public Radio in Atlanta that Emory University, a private university of some distinction, treated its 3,500 graduating class to a commencement address by Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security.

This is the agency that has goons feeling the genitals of young children and adults and which has announced that it intends to expand this practice from air travelers to shopping malls, bus and train stations. That a serious university invited such a low-lifer, who clearly has no respect for American civil liberty and is devoid of any sort of sense of what is appropriate, to address a graduating class of southern elite is a clear indication that the Ministry of Truth has prevailed. Americans are living in George Orwell's 1984.

For those who haven't read Orwell's classic prediction of our time, Big Brother, the government, could tell the 'citizens' any lie and it was accepted unquestioningly. As a perceptive reader pointed out to me, we Americans, with our 'free press,' are at this point today: 'What is really alarming is the increasingly arrogant sloppiness of these lies, as though the government has become so profoundly confident of its ability to deceive people that they make virtually no effort to even appear credible.'

A people as gullible as Americans have no future.
manganese (100 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Yeah, well, that's what they want you to believe.
Baskineli (100 D(B))
11 May 11 UTC
There is nothing like a good conspiracy article to spice up the forum. Good job.

Now, admit that you are the puppet of WebDiplomacy site operators and your goal is to increase forum traffic.
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
CBS and the AP report today that next year the government will mandate all new cell phones will be required to have a chip that receives government propaganda and fear-mongering.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/05/10/national-emergency-alert-system-set-to-launch-in-nyc/
Thucydides (864 D(B))
11 May 11 UTC
lmao. come on man.

can i ask you one quick Q so i dont have to read your thesis?

what purpose does faking OBLs death serve, and whatever purpose that is, why is RIGHT NOW the best time?
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/04/CIPAV_Post
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 May 11 UTC
@Thucy - rethink. Nobody said his death was faked. That would imply he was still alive. The theory is that he has long been dead and they found his body, but Obama couldn't say "Hey folks! My predecessor got him and we finally found his body!" That doesn't carry the political clout of "I ordered the SEALs in and they took him out!"
Thucydides (864 D(B))
11 May 11 UTC
okay fine then why not do it in october 2012 if youre going to
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
@ thucy.
Who knows, not me.
Like I said, I certainly dont have the info to say what happened.

What is amazing to me is the reaction to the news.

Everyone got whipped up into this nationalistic fervor, supporting the wars (in afghanistan iraq libya pakistan yemen) is at an all time high.
I mean, I knew americans were stupid, but this is...
just what the fuck?
Invictus (240 D)
11 May 11 UTC
So who'd you steal this little essay from, Biff?

If Bin Laden had been died in 2001, since of course Fox News is never wrong, then why are his sons just complaining about the manner in which he died now? And any deaths

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13354995

It's also quite wrong to say Al Qaeda never had another success. The London and Madrid bombings were both Al Qaeda attacks. So was the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Iraq. In addition to those spectacular attacks there were also the numerous small scale ones in the areas where the organization allowed franchises to be set up. They transformed into something like KFC with Bin Laden as the Colonel, and the separate groups carried out terrorist acts in places as disparate as the Maghreb, Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, and Indonesia. With their figurehead gone a lot of infighting between these groups is likely to take place. Good news.

This post by Sicarius is typical conspiratorial clutching at straws. The truth here is so much more interesting and answers so many questions, but it doesn't paint the totality of Western civilization as an evil imperialist conspiracy machine run by lizard people so it must be a lie. Grow up, Biff.
Invictus (240 D)
11 May 11 UTC
The Iraq War is over, Sicarius. We'll be totally out by the end of 2011.
Darwyn (1601 D)
11 May 11 UTC
"okay fine then why not do it in october 2012 if youre going to"

yep, that's it...the timing doesn't make sense to you, therefore the official story MUST be true. Is this what you pass off as logic?
Darwyn (1601 D)
11 May 11 UTC
"We'll be totally out by the end of 2011. "

Goddamn, Sic...they are fucking dumber than even you and I thought.
Putin33 (111 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Wait, so your whole conspiracy theory rests on a fox news story from 2001, which cited an anonymous Taliban leader quoted in the Pakistan Observer?

For all your rambling about serving agendas and not enough evidence, you cite this as ironclad proof he was dead in 2001? Because we can't fathom the idea that the Taliban or Pakistani newspapers would ever lie about this. It didn't serve their interests at all to declare him dead in 2001, did it?

You're like the global warming, big bang, and holocaust denialists, no amount of evidence will ever satisfy you when it comes to a view you don't like, but the flimsiest of anonymous reports will be touted as ironclad proof of your position.
Putin33 (111 D)
11 May 11 UTC
" therefore the official story MUST be true. Is this what you pass off as logic?"

If the timing was remotely close to an election, you and the rest of the conspiracy nuts would be screaming at the top of your lungs about how it was all an election ploy.
idealist (680 D)
11 May 11 UTC
@thucy

because we are going to die anyways in Dec of 2012, so theres no point in publishing that story then

@sicarius

we are as free as we think we are. you really ought to meet donald trump. he might offer you a job
Thucydides (864 D(B))
11 May 11 UTC
lol.

yeah we wont be totally out by 2011 but mostly out i agree.

and i also agree that the iraq war is over. it is. and those who try to say that what we're doing in libya is "a war" make me laugh.

anyway - yeah americans are dumb. yeah you had frat boys running around yelling USA that night.

for the most part though the reaction has been relatively subdued. certainly most people just felt a little satisfaction and moved on.

because you're the one questioning the facts, the onus is on you to explain motives and so on.

why fake it?
and why now?
and why cover up the initial death if that's what you're claiming?

you can't just say "well i dont know whats going on in their head"

please. what a shitty cop out.

to all conspiracy theorists: do you just do this for its own sake, or do you ACTUALLY believe all this shit is being hidden?

most of the stuff that's hidden are things you never hear about, not things that are outright lies and fabrications. that's way too hard.

so there are no pictures. whoop de doo. i dont think ive actually looked at any pictures of libya. but i believe that its actually happening.

care to explain the following people who agree that the story is true?
pakistan's govt
bin laden's wives
al qaeda
every member of the us government
every other country in the world
members of congress who saw the pictures
eye witnesses of the raid

did they all get bought off... or what? and if they knew from the beginning,
A) how did they cover something up that massive
B) how did they do such a good job of feigning surprise when the news broke?

and do you care to explain where all the videos etc of bin laden they got after his death? they were just hanging on to those or what?
Invictus (240 D)
11 May 11 UTC
"
The CIA director's warning of future terrorist attacks, followed by a suspect 'al Qaeda' threat of the same, suggests that if the American public continues to lose its enthusiasm for the governments open-ended wars, which are conducted at the expense of the US budget deficit, the dollar's exchange value, inflation, Social Security, Medicare, income support programs, jobs, recovery, and so forth, 'al Qaeda' will again outwit all 16 US intelligence agencies, those of our allies, NORAD, airport security, Air Traffic Control, etc. etc., and inflict the world's only superpower with another humiliating defeat that will invigorate American support for 'the war on terror.'"

This is probably the most outrageous paragraph in the whole plagiarized piece above, and not just because of the poor grammar. Could it even be remotely possible that the CIA director was just doing his job and warning about the real possibility of revenge attacks for Bin Laden's death? No, of course not. It must be a part of some larger, cynical hoodwink by the POWERS THAT BE. Because terrorist attacks never actually happen, right? Right?
Invictus (240 D)
11 May 11 UTC
"yeah we wont be totally out by 2011 but mostly out i agree."

Well, we won't be totally out in the sense that it'll revert to Saddam-era non-communication, but there won't be any military units stationed there. It'll probably be something on the level of what we have with Jordan right now.
SacredDigits (102 D)
11 May 11 UTC
I'd like this explained.

"Will it make any difference that before 48 hours had passed the story had changed so much that it no longer bore any resemblance to President Obama's Sunday evening broadcast and has lost all credibility?"

In what ways had it changed? That's a big statement that is never explored at all in the ensuing post.
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 May 11 UTC
"yeah we wont be totally out by 2011 but mostly out i agree."

Hell, we aren't even totally out of Germany after 70 years. :-)
SirBayer (480 D)
11 May 11 UTC
I find it very depressing that I in any way agree with Putin, but he makes a fine point.

I guess if we were saying "Well, maybe 'cuz polls and stuff for president," I might at least be able to take the argument seriously (and then say "no, that's stupid") but eh. Not enough concrete stuff, way too much conjecture and assumption. It doesn't follow.
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 May 11 UTC
Osama' family also wants proof of his death...

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/11/pakistan.bin.laden/
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
@ invictus paul craig roberts actually

@ thucy
those who try to say that what we're doing in libya is "a war" make me laugh.
day 1= 50 billion (2.5 million for every 5, and we fired I think 110) dollars spent on tomahawk missiles in one day. And I dont know if you knew, when those missles hit the ground they make a large explosion. A foreign country dropping bombs on another is usually understood as war. Is there a new government santctioned definition?
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 May 11 UTC
@Sic - Did you fail math? 2.5 million for 5 missiles means 22 (110/5) * 2.5 million or 55 million is the cost of the missiles, not 50 billion. Put another way, 2.5 million for 5, means 500,000 for 1. 500,000 times 110 is 55 million. Seriously. It's simple math.
Mafialligator (239 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Wow Sicarius and Darwyn, it must be great to be the only two people on this forum who see the world how it really is. You two must be so much smarter and more perceptive than everyone else to see through all the lies. I'm just in awe of your might intellects. You've got me totally convinced.
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
@ draug. I did fail math actually. I knew that though. all those damn big numbers rhyme.

@ mafiaalligator No actually its quite tiresome. Anyway it doesnt take a smart person to wonder or not if they're being lied to, just a skeptical one. or distrustful.
And what exactly have I convinced you of? I'm not sure what I'm convincing you of. It's not like I have an osama isnt dead t-shirt. Its just that when you are repeatedly lied to, over and over, everyday, your whole life, you stop being so gullible. Or so I thought. thats whats really getting me, how everyone can construe me as this right wing/ left wing, "conspiracy theorist" seeing men in suits and dark glasses behind every lampost, and shadowy global networks manipulating every aspect of reality.
I'm not john nash. I'm not saying spies in ties are everywhere. I'm not saying elvis shot jfk on the grassy knoll then wacked off to pictures of michael j fox from the future.

I'm saying when our government (which to name just ONE out of countless, straight up lied to get national support for a military invasion. repeat, knowingly lies for a pretext for the invasion and decade long occupation of a foreign country) says it shot target no.1 in the head and dumps the body in the ocean, then offers nothing to prove it, even changing their story so much it wasnt the same one, and I'm just supposed to buy it because they said so? what the fuck?
this even even about osama. this is about am imperialistic war machine, which no seems to be bothered by. No one seems to notice the eleph-cluster bombs on the ground. I mean, I dont even know what to say, come the fuck on.. this country sends out giant metal machines that fucking kill people, just so it can make more money, and no one seems to care.

drone strike
whoops civilians, sorry about that.
Putin33 (111 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Lots of people care. I'm bothered a great deal about the imperialist war machine. You do more damage to our cause by engaging in conspiracy babble.
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Hey I wonder which other countries have lied to their citizens, to go to war?
well anyway I'm sure they were all great places to live. real "safe"
A real secure "homeland" with lots off flags and cheers.
Sicarius (673 D)
11 May 11 UTC
hey guys, I dont think van der lubbe did it.

What?! thats crazy. what are you some kind of conspiracy nut?

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67 replies
Sargmacher (0 DX)
08 May 11 UTC
Culture and Imperialism-2
Hey guys,
I'd like to run a second game in my Culture and Imperialism series.
The details are same as before: Classic WTA 36-hour phase gunboat.
Slightly higher pot of 500 D
23 replies
Open
chronoz (100 D)
13 May 11 UTC
Can Turkey still get his last circle?
ID#55906
It seems I am stuck in 2 stalemates (Mediterranean Sea, Germany) and an upcoming 3rd, which will prevent me from ever getting St. Petersburg.
8 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
10 May 11 UTC
Riphen is a multi. This not a accusation but a fact he admits to.
Can a mod please ban him for cheating?
108 replies
Open
santosh (335 D)
13 May 11 UTC
Classic Anonymous 58712
Starts in about 4 mintues from the time of posting of this thread
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=58712
0 replies
Open
Kautilya (100 D)
13 May 11 UTC
DiploMed gameID=58715
Hi guys, come and join in for a quick game. Promises to be fun!
1 reply
Open
Zxylon (0 DX)
12 May 11 UTC
Status Update
Hello. I am a long time member to PHPdiplomacy, but I have been in a hiatus for over a year. Can anyone tell me what the new features are in the site since I last played. I am looking for a few high profile games.
15 replies
Open
Otto Von Bismark (653 D)
13 May 11 UTC
High Stakes Game
Does anyone want to create a standard game with a pot around 200? Post if you would like to. Im thinking 1day/phase, public players and open chat. Probably PPSC.
0 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
13 May 11 UTC
About multis/cheating
Folks,
28 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
09 May 11 UTC
Down to1 game :(
I just finished one of my two remaining games still open. As such, I'm going to start a new game, PPSC, 100 point buyin, 2 day phases. I'm looking for takers.
13 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
06 May 11 UTC
Statistical Report
I'm nearly done with the report I have been putting together. Austria, England, France and Germany are complete. I'm in the process of working on Italy, Russia, Turkey and some general statistics not dealing with any specific country.
57 replies
Open
numberzero (127 D)
11 May 11 UTC
Help for feeling like a bad person?
So i'm in a high point non-WTA gunboat, and everyone is playing a top notch game, we are able to communicate using support holds, etc. But then I stab my ally for SCs and profit. I feel sort of bad about it, because i'm essentially stealing a lot of points from somebody that was nice enough to play with me.

How can I feel better about myself in these circumstances?
26 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
12 May 11 UTC
Question about GR
See inside
32 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
10 May 11 UTC
Discuss the following statement:
“In a time in which Communist regimes have been rightfully discredited and yet alternatives to neoliberal capitalist societies are unwisely dismissed, I defend the fundamental claim of Marxist theory: there must be countervailing forces that defend people’s needs against the brutality of profit driven capitalism.”
129 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
12 May 11 UTC
Obi-Wan Kenobi Is Dead, Vader Says...
http://www.galacticempiretimes.com/2011/05/09/galaxy/outer-rim/obi-wan-kenobi-is-killed.html
Seems similar to something I have heard about recently... Ah well, it will come to me eventually.
27 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
12 May 11 UTC
Minor 'bug'
I stumbled on a very minor bug yesterday. If I have an army in Ruhr, supporting fleet in Belgium to hold, but I change that to support holding an army in Holland, it says: "Army Ruhr support hold to fleet Holland". Should this be fixed?
5 replies
Open
joey1 (198 D)
10 May 11 UTC
Forum press game
Hello, I have an idea for a game. The gameID=58416 is set up with No messaging and anon players. Normally the rule is not to discuss ongoing games in the forum, but here, this will be the point of the game. (I got this idea from the dark press game)
44 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
11 May 11 UTC
General - President - Ambassador - (Diplomat) - (Spy)
ok, so this is a 3-5 player (sorry, 21-35 player) team variant.
10 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
12 May 11 UTC
Please join our game? Newton's 3rd Law: countervail
Newton's 3rd law: countervail
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=58596
0 replies
Open
Ridcully (100 D)
12 May 11 UTC
Copy-Button for your saved Orders. Would it be awesome?
Pretty much that's it. A Button that copys you actual orders to the clipboard as plain text so you can post it in your chats.
9 replies
Open
figlesquidge (2131 D)
12 May 11 UTC
"Most Dangerous city in the world"
A friend of mine just came back from a pub quiz, which they won. The prize of £150 all came to the final question, "If Baghdad is the most dangerous city in the world, where is second?"
What answers would you have given and why?
36 replies
Open
gigantor (404 D)
12 May 11 UTC
Diploholics Anonymous
My name is Gigantor, and I'm a Diploholic. (HI, GIGANTOR!) I'm going away for two months this summer, and as a consequence I have told myself not to start any new games until September. I'm down to my last one, and even that will be over soon. Somebody console me. *breaks down in tears*
10 replies
Open
Crazyter (1335 D(G))
10 Apr 11 UTC
BOSTON F2F UPDATE
New venue booked with balcony and river view. See inside for details.
238 replies
Open
Riphen (198 D)
12 May 11 UTC
1 Day Phase Game PPSC
5 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
11 May 11 UTC
i hate playing england
i just dont know what to do with england
how to start or how to continue
does any player have some tips?
5 replies
Open
Morandini (137 D)
12 May 11 UTC
CHEATERS!! can the GMs verify?
I am not confident that France and England are different players in "The Return of the Conqueror" game
Can a fleet in English Channel that belongs to England support a french army in Bel if they do not talk to each other or "is" the same player?
This makes the confidence in this site VERY LOW!
12 replies
Open
gigantor (404 D)
09 May 11 UTC
Forum issue: timestamps
I've just noticed that there's (something that's potentially) an error in the timestamps on the forum. The stamps shouldn't specify the day/date/month when that date is not *today*, but in fact they don't specify when the post was created within the last 24 hours. Perhaps this was intentional, but when I see a timestamp reading 03:00 PM, even if it's actually 2:30 PM, I don't immediately realise that it was yesterday. Issue or not?
43 replies
Open
taos (281 D)
11 May 11 UTC
nigth live
join now
gameID=58550
0 replies
Open
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