"Gunboat means never having to say you're sorry."

If you feel bad about stabbing an ally for profit near the end of the game, then shift to WTA. You'll only stab if you think it can get you the win. And if that makes you feel bad, go play tiddly winks. This is Diplomacy: the game of lying, cheating, and stealing.

Assume your ex-ally had it coming if he was gullible enough to ally with someone of your low moral standing.

you are playing a gunboat, its becoming quite obvious to me that no one puts any thoughts into their gunboat play anyway

SantaClausowitz, please don't turn this into another stupid argument over which variant is better.

um, have I ever made an argument about which is better?

You never had an ally. You had a rival who was using a series of holds and supports to try and dupe you into lowering your guard so he could destroy you. Fortunately you outwitted him and made him pay for his attempted deception before he even had a chance to slide his miserable backstabbing knife into your back.

Always remember, YOU are the good guy!

James Hacker: Anyway, the Americans will always protect us from the Russians, won't they?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Russians? Who's talking about the Russians?
James Hacker: Well, the independent deterrent.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It's to protect us against the French!
James Hacker: The French?! But that's astounding!
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Why?
James Hacker: Well they're our allies, our partners.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, they are now, but they've been our enemies for the most of the past 900 years.

numberzero, you are England and your "ally" is France. Sir Humphrey is never wrong.

lol Octavious. I love that last line. I'm going to look in the mirror tonight and repeat "You are the good guy" over and over again. I'll let you know if it helps w/ the guilt conscience.

"It is an ANCIENT Welsh ART based on a BRILLIANTLY simple I-D-E-A, which is a SECRET. The best form of DEFENCE is ATTACK (Clausewitz) and the most VITAL element of ATTACK is SURPRISE (Oscar HAMMERstein). Therefore, the BEST way to protect yourself AGAINST any ASSAILANT is to ATTACK him before he attacks YOU... Or BETTER... BEFORE the THOUGHT of doing so has EVEN OCCURRED TO HIM!!! SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RENDER YOUR ASSAILANT UNCONSCIOUS BEFORE he is EVEN aware of your very existence!"
- MONTY PYTHON

If you feel bad about stabbing an "ally" you are playing the wrong game.. Candy Land is a bit more friendly..

+1 ulytau

Sir Humphrey can be my mentor in diplomatic strategy any day..

I have the same attitude toward stabbing as I do to exercise: I Hate doing it, but I like the results!
Always ask yourself: WWTSD? (What would Tony Soprano do?)
All part of the game.

Stealing points from somebody who was nice enough to play with you is the object of the game. Everybody expects it. That's what makes it fun. The game is designed so that it is nearly impossible to win without stabbing somebody.
All part of the game, calculating. That's what makes it so fun!

You should never ever stab someone. Especially not me.

fiedler +1

Get over it, perhaps?

In the game of Diplomacy, there are no alliances. There are simply agreements between two countries based on temporary mutual gain, and these shift throughout the game. If it's more beneficial for you to stab, then do it. If you can't stab without feeling bad about it, and are unable to be stabbed and not whine about it, go play Risk.

Gunboats are difficult in this aspect, as you can't get a feeling for the opposition. Play games with press - then you can stab people that piss you off and not the once who're nicer. If everyone is nice... provoke them ... until someone cracks. It's much easier on the conscience to stab people you have a problem with :)

Create a game with a bunch of people who have about 150 , and make it a 150 point game. throw the game so that one of them wins it big (preferably one who has a name of a foreign animal then 3 numbers, in descending order) so that your newfound points go to a good cause!

Play people with strong guilt complexes, they will blame themselves for the stab.

+ 1 ulytau
Classic tv show Yes Prime Minister. I am surprised you have even heard of it. My favourite from the eighties and greatest political satire ever.

do you play to win or do you play to make people happy?

What's so surprising about my knowledge of the best TV series ever?

numberzero, in case Sir Humphrey didn't convince you, let's reformulate the problem from this perspective:

1. "Ally" is asking for it
2. Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war
3. ????
4. PROFIT

It all boils down to point 1, therefore it's solely the fault of your "ally" that you stabbed him. It's the same as with serial murders, we all know (if you don't, you're Hitler) that when someone goes on a killing spree, it's solely the fault of the society that it allowed the poor murderer to be so deprived. The murderer is actually the victim here. You are the murderer. Your "ally" should apologise to you for your stab.

You are just playing a game. A game that pretty much requires stabbing to win. Your ally should have saw it coming. When we all rely on draws and forget that someone could solo... well, that's when people solo win games. Your ally is pissed, but more pissed he/she didn't protect themselves and see it coming or mad because they opened themselves up for it... not because you are a big, bad meanie.

@ ulytau: that's one of my favorite South Park episodes of all time!