Not sure FDR can be considered particularly American. He would far more likely be a member of the Hanoverian court than a revolutionary rising against it, given his vision.

Still- 4 terms that goes from the Great Depression to WWII, and widely beloved, some even say he is after Lincoln the best or even tied with him; that's a bit extreme, but still, easily Top 7...a great American...

(And I've always wondered, TGM- do people in England do anything to mark the day, or try and block out the news reports from the media about our celebrations, or just not a big deal...?)

@Obiwan2: not a big deal at all. There might be a short piece at the end of the news summary, just before the item on a rolling skating duck or whatever. Actually, we don't make a fuss about independance days of any of our ex-colonies, too many to remember really.

Have a nice day

"Still- 4 terms that goes from the Great Depression to WWII, and widely beloved, some even say he is after Lincoln the best or even tied with him; that's a bit extreme, but still, easily Top 7...a great American..."

Okay, 4 terms, so he disregarded the two term limit. Great Depression was worsened by his policies, liberties and the constitution were eroded in a way that still hasn't been recovered from. Bottom 7 President would probably be more reasonable.

The term limit wasn't formal then, and as he was elected, it's clear he was wanted for the job, it's not like the threw out the ballot box like some other "Presidents/Chancellors" in the 1930s.

His policies didn't do much then, but his attitude helped the country greatly, and his policies DID help us immensely later on; public works projects, new agencies, social security...

And then there was that little matter of business he attended to from 1941-1945...

A GREAT president.

(What's odd for me is that you don't like him, but even more so that you dislike him SO MUCH...usually it's the far-right that hates FDR and often JFK as well, and I was under the impression England's political stance was a bit more in line with the American Center-Left, not quote liberal but certainly not conservative...and anyway, why would England CARE so much about a president, even FDR; granted he and Churchill had a little matter of business in Europe to attend to, but still, why do you as an Englishman despise an American President who sided with your nation so much?)

Out of interest if you Yanks could go back in time and do it all again would you go down the long and bloody road to independence of war and death, or choose the path favoured by Canada that achieved the same end result without anyone getting killed?

What, wait until Britain didn't care anymore? I think if it was up to Canada they'd still be part of Britain.

"The term limit wasn't formal then, and as he was elected, it's clear he was wanted for the job, it's not like the threw out the ballot box like some other "Presidents/Chancellors" in the 1930s."

He wasn't a dictator. Bully for him!

"His policies didn't do much then, but his attitude helped the country greatly, and his policies DID help us immensely later on; public works projects, new agencies, social security..."

I call bull. The programs of FDR extended the depression, not the reverse.

"(What's odd for me is that you don't like him, but even more so that you dislike him SO MUCH...usually it's the far-right that hates FDR and often JFK as well, and I was under the impression England's political stance was a bit more in line with the American Center-Left, not quote liberal but certainly not conservative...and anyway, why would England CARE so much about a president, even FDR; granted he and Churchill had a little matter of business in Europe to attend to, but still, why do you as an Englishman despise an American President who sided with your nation so much?)"

1. I am not a typical Englishman. I consider left wing politics fundamentally immoral *and* ineffective.

2. Why would I care? Because America is an ally and a friend to Britain, and I respect the country in its own right. Neglect of the constitution over the past 100 years was probably the worst thing to have happened in American politics.

FDR ranks very high with nearly all American president polls(from scholars only to broader polling) have a look at the graph on this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

Obi, you must not have been paying any attention to the threads you start/participate in! Ghost has consistently moved to the right over the last 2-3 years(well basing on his posts on this site)

regarding rankings, so what? I could point out that Jefferson is pretty damn popular too, but it doesn't matter a dime.

It is like a mother watching her children grow up. She knows that one day they must leave home. Some of them get rebellious and go stomping off as soon as they can (the US) whilst others hang around as long as possible because someone else does their washing for them (Canada). But mother still loves them all just the same.

Happy Independence Day, Americans. Happy fourth of July, rest of the world! (Because it is, after all, still the fourth of July for the rest of the world.) As for FDR, have to agree with TGM. Definitely in the bottom 7.

yeah watching ghost slide into right field has been funny.

not saying... anything really, just that it has been interesting

Or, more accurately, Canada was like TWO children playing outside in the winter. We English and French have always been way too busy fighting each other to even NOTICE "outsiders".

Mother may shout at us from the doorway to come inside for dinner, but we both know that it's way too cold for her to actually chase us down.

We DO love our mothers, though. The Queen is here!

"yeah watching ghost slide into right field has been funny.

not saying... anything really, just that it has been interesting"

Had I been in the French Assembly at the time of Bastiat, I would have sat on the left.

Also, the way you say "slide" is really rather loaded and derogatory.

You know, the Revolution was probably worth it for the aspirational statement of the Constitution, but the world likely ould have been much more peaceful had we remained in the Commonwealth. Or, had Parliament gone in for truly long term thinking, they would have extended full and equal franchise to the colonies. Because of the distance between them and London, and the differences between the colonies, skilled parliamenticians could have kept them disunited while keeping them culturally British. Had Britain done that, it would be Britain still as the world's alpha dog.

Although, to be honest, being the world alpha dog is one of those "looks great from the outside" sort of things that kind of sucks when you actually get it.

And Roosevelt was clearly one of the top 3 presidents of American history. The record on this is so clear and unambiguous that to counter, as Ghostmaker has, strikes me as an act of either deliberate contrariness or ideological blindness.

"You know, the Revolution was probably worth it for the aspirational statement of the Constitution...Roosevelt was clearly one of the top 3 presidents of American history"

Roosevelt could only be given credit for his presidency during WW2 (about which I am unable to comment through lack of detailed knowledge). His economic policy was a disaster and his disregard for the constitution devastating.

Reagan, Madison, Jefferson, Washington to name just 4.

The Chicago school criticises FDR's legacy, and the Austrian school damns him on almost all fronts, for instance, so Bob's claim that "Roosevelt was clearly one of the top 3 presidents of American history" is clearly bunk, even if you agree that he was probably among the 3 best presidents.

Reagan? Ludicrous choice. Madison got the White House burnt on his watch.

And FDR's economic policies were hardly disastrous. The economy actually rebounded quite nicely because of the New Deal. It was the movement away from the New Deal after 1936, due to an atavistic, far-right, Lochner-era Supreme Court that struck down key measures of Roosevelt's program, that caused the renewed slumping of the economy.

As to his disregard for the Constitution, yes, the internment of Japanese citizens was clearly the black mark of his Presidency. Yet the Supreme Court held that it was valid. So it wasn't just Roosevelt who thought, shamefully enough, that it was necessary.

OK, I did overstate my case a bit. Well over 14 roundly discredited economists dispute Mr. Roosevelt's legacy as a positive one.

I must admit, I'm assuming, when you refer to the Chicago School, you're referring to the economists, as opposed to the Chicago School of sociologists, who seem to be quite in favor of Roosevelts legacy.

"Well over 14 roundly discredited economists dispute Mr. Roosevelt's legacy as a positive one."

Such discredited economists also predicted the current crisis... on balance, not so discreditable after all.

Ah, Chicago... Home of the Senate Seat Selling former Governor Rod Blagojevich. Says something about Chicago, doesn't it...

@Ghost - even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then and many more economists than them predicted this fall. Anybody with half a brain predicted this one...