Lol, you have to play in such a way as to make it unprofitable for your allies to stab you.

If you can't stand it, stop playing diplomacy.
It is supposed to be like that!

@DBH - that is an important part of the game. and it does suck when it happens! so talk to other players and get them to backstab those backstabbers =P

or backstab them, before they stab you ;D

but the basic tenet of the game is that you can't win without other people's help, and only one person can win. so, stabbing is a natural part of the game. just ask BoG75 ...

To be a little kinder, I'm afraid it's a hard learning process. Try and learn from your mistakes, and get your attacks in first.

Oh you mean you were serious????

Notice that everyone replying has tons of points. In low level games with loads of new players who don't understand, in dj's words, "that you can't win without other people's help" pointless lying is much more common than actual stabs. I think just about every game I've watched someone lie to get up to ~8 SC, then try to work alone the rest of the game and end up crushed. That or watched someone go after a weak neighbor while an alliance develops a huge lead.

It's not a surprise that as the site grows, the entry level games become more chaotic and less about diplomacy.

I'll work with you. We should try to get into a game together.

Yes I agree with you Goldeye. I still don' have enough points to avoid those games. I just joined a WTA game with a buy in of 95 and 4 of the players that joined are playing their first game. Its basically a gunboat game...

in that case, you should join forces with me ;)

no no, with me! join me! ;D

wow i like asswholes. i KNOW backstabbing is a part of this game. im just saying it sucks. thats all, i just wanted to have a discussion about it. jeez.

and thank you for actually saying something smart dj. i know im new but it doesnt mean i suck, i just need to work on my strategies.

on a serious note, new or old player, bad or good player, no one makes a difference between those. Everyone always stabs when the opportunity is good and the long-time rewards plenty (or they do when it's not, and embarrass themselves)


just focus on eliminating good opportunities before they arise, and stabs against you should decrease. of course, it also helps if you manage to be somewhat likeable

I'm new here too and I've already learned that stabbing is a part of the game but at the low level there's a lot of pointless stabbing. I do find that a little irritating. It serves no purpose as we both lose. But I read on the SoW thread that you never give up and talk talk talk especially when you're down and I must say that it's true. I was stabbed in the first year then got jumped on by everyone in two games but I'm still alive in both and in one I've actually managed to make an alliance with the original stabber and I'm now taking my 4th SC for the first time in the whole game and there's only four players left. So, just move on and try to stay alive and you might just finish the game.

DaBananaHammock: Don't worry, people can be fairly rude here but some are nice :-)

DaBanana... glad you made it to the forum and posted about your travails... indeed, some of us more veteran players should keep in mind what it may have been like when we FIRST started playing... the game can be overwhelming... but after a while, so many things seem 'obvious' to us that we overlook these normal emotions that rookies have.

first thing first to you DaBanana... and to any other rookie playing. diplomacy is a hard game to master, but it can be done with a mediocre amount of time on your part. first things first - go to the School of War thread... it is set up exactly for new players to come in and ask their questions... and to follow along in a game to get answers to questions such as this... when should I stab? how do I protect myself? what do I say to make an enemy an ally? etc. try out that thread.

if there was a one-word answer to ALL questions newbies ask... its this "talk"

usually that will solve 90% of your problems. have you already talked? talk some more. ;)

in any case... good luck, and do keep asking questions, the more specific your question, the more specific the answers you'[ll get from the vets.

I hear the complaint about cheap games being gunboat games. It's hard to deal with.

For a game with a lot of stabbing, see gameID=12290. I was Turkey and had a very good relationship going with Austria-Hungary and we produced tons of friendly joint-planning. Then, in only Spring 1902 (Yes, there was a lot of diplomacy in that short time), he stabbed me very early on and I was in really bad shape. I had a CD Russia to my north and was desperately fighting the Austro-Hungarians, but I survived as Germany began devouring a CD Austria-Hungary and Russia. It looked like I was going to be destroyed again since I had no stalemate line to my north to halt my huge future enemy. A Franco-German alliance dominated the board. In an epic stab, France betrays its ally and heads for the win with my support. I end up the 2nd player in the game.

For a great show of trust, see gameID=12231.

These are the only to games I finished playing from the beginning.

Play with me. I'll never stab. No, not ever.

But seriously, just never leave yourself open for a stab. What you can't protect isn't yours.

Well said, Invictus. But I can't believe somebody opened this can'o'worms.

These are the only two games I finished playing from the beginning.
Sorry

"on a serious note, new or old player, bad or good player, no one makes a difference between those. Everyone always stabs when the opportunity is good and the long-time rewards plenty (or they do when it's not, and embarrass themselves)"

I think OP's complaint highlights about people who stab when the opportunity isn't good. New and bad players often stab for the sake of stabbing and the immediate gain; they don't look down the road at whether they can finish the stab before opponents get ahead.

This thread shows a clear trend: players with a lot of points remark about staying out of stabworthy situations -- players with fewer points are in games that feel like gunboats, with stabs that make no sense.
If vets want to say something relevant, talk about how to manage yourself in a game where players communicate badly and stab chaotically.
I'm considering being defensive in my next few games just because it is impossible to trust people even when it is worth it for them.

For a good example of the pointless stabs that plague newb games, look at Turkey vs an England/Germany alliance in the last few years of gameID=12708

When I played really low level games I still managed to eek communication out of almost everyone. You just need to be persistent with the talking and cautious with the moves.

Banana, if you want to play a game with trust and no stabbing set up a Team Game with your friends, any fair combination works well,, usually 3 teams with one team being 3 nations and thus a bit stronger (but also more likely to be a target of the other two).

In regular games you can avoid being stabbed by limiting your exposure, sure IF you could trust your ally on the eastern front you could use all your units on the western front and really damage your western enemy, but maybe a slower path in your western invasion and keep a single unit back on the eastern front would be wiser, alternatively you could set up a clash with your ally, for example to keep tyrolia free both nations move a unit there.
Remember that your ally will also want to have a conflict free border so he can focus elsewhere....unless he sees the safe border as an opportunity and then comes the stab

Sean is right. Always ask yourself before every move, "Who can stab me, and how successful can they be?"

It's not foolhardy, but if you try and look at what other players aims are, rather than just looking at the board from your own viewpoint, you'll start to do better.

And, if necessary, write, write and write some more. Always always write in the early stages, even to countries that are on the other side of the board to you. Then, if you get stabbed, a friendly Germany can assist Turkey, who's being stabbed by Austria. A friendly France can attack an Austro/Italian alliance that threatens Turkey...

*foolproof. Not foolhardy.

I second the motion of those who said don't leave yourself open to a stab. Typically, if someone is stabbing you, its because they feel pretty secure leaving whatever positions they were in perviously so that they can march into yours. Never leave a crucial SC open to a potential stab unless its your only option, and always talk to the other players who could benefit hugely from attacking the person who has just stabbed you.

As far as illogical stabs go, if someone feels like stabbing you they are going to stab you, plain and simple, and there isn't anything you can do about that. All you can do is talk to everyone, and make your potential stabber very well aware of the disasterous consequences of stabbing you, the term "mutual suicide" has worked pretty well for me in the past:]

If you want to play with players who have a bit more experience, talk to the forum, most of the people who post here regularly have been on the site for awhile, and I would like to think that most of us only stab when it suits our selfish and self serving goals;]

There is also the SOW, as has been stated many times, which is a great way to learn how to read a potential stab, when you should stab, how to defend against a stab, and all that fun tactical bullshit.

Well, as a lot of these people have pointed out, it is part of the game. It is, of course, too early to tell, but I think my stab was well timed. I don't think that it will prove to fall into the category of a "pointless stab"; those get me irritated too. Now, even though stabbing is essential to the game and from that point of view is justified, in our curious case, I felt especially justified. It is extremely frustrating when an ally misses a turn. It generally throws off the timing of your combined assualt of a third party. Admittedly, you missed a turn because not everyone in the game would agree to your pause request. (I did, however.) But missing a turn is often a great way to set yourself up for a stab.
Cheers.

yeah thanks for all your help. and phaedrus... im not giving up!