Or we could debate the very existence of "ethics" I've always hated the idea of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html

ethics is some kind of social contact which a society agrees to based on their shared values or the lowest common denominator of their values, and which has some affect on the success which the society achieves (and thus succusseful ethics contribute to their own propagation... but also mutate like any evolved attribute)

The problem is when they hinder the progress of humanity, like bioethics. i want clones, dammit!

lol, I see what you mean now. And I would agree in some cases ethics are more of a hinderance - stem cell research, for example.

Glad you agree. If you want to read someone who is a great example of what makes the study of ethics such a bad joke, read Peter Singer.

I think these are better topics:

When you make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, do the peanut butter and jelly go on different slices of bread? Do you use the same knife? If so, do you get little bits of PB in your jelly jar, or the other way around?

If you eat cheese fries, do you first dip them in the cheese or the ketchup?

Do you Europeans have 'American' cheese at the deli? What do the Swiss call Swiss cheese?

I don't eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I don't eat cheese fries, and if I did I wouldn't have ketchup. I don't think we have American it here, or if we do it's under a different name. As for Swiss cheese, who knows. I guess it will remain a mystery. Unless we have any Swiss on the site (although I expect they'd remain neutral in all their games...)

We make our own cheese, from cows.

@Dingleberry, I shall reply to your questions in the order they were raised:
1. I never make peanut butter and jelly, but I am aware of the terrible consequences that might arise from using the same knife. I would make sure to thoroughly wash it between spreadings. It doesn't matter if you put them on different slices of bread, because they'll get mixed together anyway, unless you are making a Romanian Inverted Sandwich.
2. What is a cheese fry?
3. In my experience Americans don't even have American cheese at the Deli. You can find that shit in little shrink-wrapped slices in the supermarket.

"we have American it here" should be "American cheese..."

wow, two posts in before I manage to correct my mistake.

Kaiser, your experience must be very limited. American Cheese is at every deli counter i have seen, in a big 5 pound brick that needs to be sliced.

@ Dingleberry:

1. When making a sandwich using two such fillings I use two knives, to avoid the precise cross-contamination problem you mention.

2. What are 'cheese fries'?

3. I have never seen 'American' cheese at any deli in the UK. Various people I know who have been to America have told me that the 'cheese' sold in America is of very poor quality compared to the mouthwatering selection of cheeses many European countries have to offer. I think the Swiss call the various 'Swiss' cheese by their more specific names (that is, there is more than one type of 'swiss cheese')

Oh, and the term Swiss cheese is only used in America and some Commonwealth nations to refer to a few types of holy (punctured, not sacred-though incidentally the holes come from air bubbles) cheese which which would all be referred to differently in Switzerland. Or France, or italy or wherever. Usually what Americans think of a Swiss Cheese is actually called Emmentaler.

In response to Dingleberry's intriguing questions:
1. I use a knife for the peanut butter jar, and then use a spoon for the jelly. I find it easier to scoop the jelly out then to try and lift it out with a knife. That being said, I spread peanut butter on one side, and jelly on the other.
2. Ketchup with cheese fries is bad.
3. I think American cheese is terrible. Swiss on the other hand, is awesome. And I bet it tastes even better in Switzerland.

@Dingleberry: My experience is limited. You say that that orangey disgusting stuff is actually sold at Delis? Have you ran out of decent cheeses or are there those so inclined in your country to prefer a "food product" over cheese?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_fries

Typically, cheese fries are smothered in a liquid cheese of some variety, so the question would be moot. At other places (think Philadelphia Cheese Steaks - another reference lost on you 'cultured' Europeans), you can get cheese in a dish for dunking, hence the 'which first?' question.

Kaiser, before I phrase my answer, are you just a culture snob? hate all things American? Just fancy yourself a cheese connoisseur? Or just being dickish? Feel free to choose any combination if necessary.

@ original topic: when talking about any human activity there is a strategic arguement between the safer conservativism - using tried and tested techniques, and the more dangerous liberal(meaning free to try anything you want)-experimentation where you try whatever you feel like.

The issue with bioethics is the fear from the consevative individuals that the new things will destroy the status quo(family based society?), and not simple be integrating into the current system like most new technologies...

political parties likely use the words conservative and liberal for other meanings...

I am a culture snob, I only hate some American things ie: democracy, but I quite like others, like Militias. I am a bit of a cheese connoisseur, and I wasn't aware that I was being dickish, sorry if I come across that way.

@orathaic: I completely agree with you. However, Burke defined conservatism as preserving the good and steering the hell away from the damn French Revolution. With this definition, one could conceivably be against the destruction of the family and all in favor of potentially life saving research, provided it be privately funded.

I'm an American, I wasn't raised via American culture, not feeling dickish and not fully a cheese connoisseur. I will say not only is "American" cheese crap... I'm disgusted with any cheese that uses dye to make it a color for absolutely no reason.

@Dingleberry Philly Cheese Steaks can be superb, I don't disagree with you there.

Only on this site could we have a conversation about scientific ethics going on at the same time as one about American cheese :P

Same here *drools

@ Sayjo: I know, right? it's not like there aren't white cheeses out there, making dying a necessity for fear that a frightened consumer would avoid such an abomination. I suppose the tradition of dying it came out of before American cheese was a processed cheese and was made out of cheddar and something else, I can't remember but It might have been naturally yellow.

rofl, in terms of scientific ethics I'm pretty sure we all agree so there isn't much to discuss unless you want to organize a revolt in which we all clone fetus' and dance around with them in a protest

well the scientific ethics has some major bearing on the production of new cheese drool inciting technologies.

it's not that surprising when you think about it...

has anyone ever tried to make cheese? I made some paneer the other day and it turned out alright. Any recommendations for another variety? i prefer it be unaged, because I like to taste the fruits of my labors within 48 hours.