The right thing to do is to ignore this result and approve the treaty with Ukraine anyhow! Only 65% of 32% of the Dutch voters voted no. That is only 21%.

The will of the people isn't really clear though, that's part of the issue. The initiator admitted that he doesn't care about Ukraine and just wants to show discontent about the EU. It's also not a binding referendum, so the government has no obligation other than to take it into consideration.

Another thing is that it's really unclear what the government is supposed to do now. Just pulling out is extreme and only 20% of the referendum can technically be boycotted.

Plus the EU is likely to just copy-paste, change a few things to make it less lucrative for The Netherlands and submit the treaty again.

There never was a way for the no-camp to win it and I genuinely think the initiator is just creating revenue for his website at Ukraine's expense..

So what precisely should the Dutch government do in your opinion?

Haha EU. What a mess.

Correction: only 20% of the treaty can effectibely be boycotted*

That was in reaction to Octavious.

@Peterlund: I agree to the sentiment, but the rule is it's valid because over 30% voted and ignoring it defeats the purpose of spending 35 million on a referendum. I don't really know, just dropping the arguments against your point of view but I don't know whether I actually disagree with you.

@ peter: I assume you're joking. It can be hard to tell here :p.

@ Stephie

The will of the people is as clear as you will ever get. If you only count votes with pure motives then there has probably never been a valid election in the history of democracy.

The government must follow the people and not sign the treaty. This surely is obvious?

EU needs massive reform, or it should be shut down. Vote of no confidence is good news, imho

@Octavious:
Okay, so the government looks like a dick in the EU and a slightly different proposal is made to address our 'concerns' (which are completely unclear). All other countries accept.

What then? Genuine question.

@Perry: Even when the actual vote is about Ukraine? Is this the time to express no confidence if you have no qualms about the treaty?

The government only looks like a dick depending on your perspective. Many in the EU will admire it.

What happens next can be one of two things. Either the government rules out the idea completely, or it makes a real effort to find out what changes must be made to win a referendum, attempt to make those changes, and then put it to a second referendum.

@Octavious: No I am dead serious here.

This is @carlbildt tweeted the following last evening :
"Agreement EU/Ukraine already approved by 29 democratic EU parliaments. Those voting No in Netherlands are 0,006% of the electorate in EU"

I suppose that's possible.
Thanks for the input!

But now I see that @carlbildt has agreed that he is bad at math. The correct number is 0,6% of the EU electorate voted No. :)

@Peter

What an unusual and, I'd argue, misleading statistic. I suspect that if the entire EU was given a vote the result would have also been no.

At the end of the day the vast majority of the people of the Netherlands either didn't want it or were quite happy to leave the issue to other people. That, at the end of the day, is democracy and democracy should be at the heart of Europe.

What if the majority of people thought it shouldn't be decided with a referendum?

Looks like 'Maidan' was worth it, lol. Poor Ukraine was sold a bill of goods. Should know by now that Europe never has your back.

@ Stephie

The process for having referenda in the Netherlands is quite clear. If enough people think that the referenda system is a bad idea they could easily demand a referendum on getting rid of it. Or they could just vote in favour of the government wishes. What you can't do is wait until after the event and then claim that the system you used to be perfectly happy with is wrong.

I don't claim the system is wrong. I asked my question because you said the vast majority of people either didn't want it or were quite happy to leave the issue to other people.

I agree with the latter, I just think there's a possibility that they preferred leaving it to the government rather than the 21% against it.

For instance, someone I know agreed with me that there shouldn't have been a referendum to begin with, and she voted "no". Why? Because she was asked a question and she got herself informed, formed an opinion and voted because that was asked of her, even though she agrees that it shouldn't have been asked of her in this case.

That's the thing with the question asked: it doesn't ask 'do you think the government is perfectly capable of deciding this themselves?' so those who would answer that question with yes could still be voting no at the referendum. There's a bunch of other examples to give for the same purpose. "No, but the government should decide" simply wasn't an option on the ballot.

Nor should it be. If you think the government should decide you should vote in keeping with government advice. If you think the government should decide but vote against the government's wishes... well, frankly you're an idiot who should do society a favour and avoid voting in future :p

@putin33 I agree. I am Swedish but still I feel ashamed if EU and in particular the Dutch No voters leave democratic Ukraine without the support they need and I think they are entitled to after Maidan.

That's the thing though: the honest people who actually vote for the best course of action because that's what they're asked for might vote against even if they think it should be up to the government. They are sincerely answering the question they've been asked.
Those in favour of the referendum are much more likely to vote against it as a message and nothing more.

I agree you should vote yes if you think the government should decide, but strictly speaking the government is asking you what's best.

@ Steephie

I really think you're overcomplicating a very simple choice. I genuinely don't understand how anyone could struggle with the issues you're presenting.

I'm pretty sure I gave an example about a woman who voted "no" but doesn't think there should have been a referendum.
The VVD, a coalition party which is in favour of the treaty, did not campaign because they are against referenda. Most of the yes-camp passed on that opportunity due to mixed feelings and a significant portion of that camp did not vote. The no-camp won with a landslide because the people in favour were split between active yes-voters and active non-voters.

I think you're oversimplifying it.

There is nothing democratic about the Maidan coup or the kleptocrats who now wage war on their own people in Ukraine.

@putin Sorry but you are misinformed. Stop listening in on the official Russian desinformation on your state television.

@steephie: i don't see your point. there are also people who vote for a party to protest against established parties, even if they don't hold the views of the party they vote for. so what? it is very obvious what voting is designed to do, in this case it even had a specified purpose. if you don't want to vote, you don't have to. simple as that. if you don't think there should be a referendum about that, you can always hold a referendum to cancel said referendum.

@ Steephie

You're example shows a woman who was quite happy to let the government take the call, but after the referendum encouraged her to look more carefully at the issues decided the government was wrong and voted accordingly. I don't see anything there to object to. "Woman changes mind after learning about an issue" is not the stuff from which headlines are made. It's kind of how things are meant to work.

If the yes camp was full of people who didn't vote on purpose, then the yes camp was full of idiots. An active non voter is not a member of the yes camp

octavious is right.

in a democracy, the ones who don't vote always support the majority.

@kasimax @octavious Referendums are often not the best method. In Switzerland it took until 1974 before women got the equal rights to vote, since the men voted "No" until then :/

i didn't say that referendums are either good or bad. but they're here - if you choose to ignore them, don't get upset when you don't like the result.