This is my eog, mostly going off memory because the game started ages ago, had a couple pauses in there, and ended in like 1920, although I was eliminated in 1917 (spoiler alert). I think I remember it pretty well. This EOG will probably be long. I just finished writing this and haven’t had a ton of time to edit it so apologies for the sentence fragments, typos, length, etc.

EOG: Germany

Spring 1901

I draw Germany and that’s pretty cool. Right off the bat, I get a lovely, friendly first message from Turkey. Our rapport will later decay into something much less lovely, but basically Turkey does the usual overture to Germany very well, and in his second message he plants a seed about France being shifty. I’m already very nervous about France because England’s first message to me, also quite normal and friendly, says he has a message from France, but I don’t. Turkey and England are both unimpressed with their message from France, and puzzled that I haven’t gotten one.

So Turkey tells me England is interesting pulling Italy into a triple attack on France. I don’t know if this is true because, in retrospect, this occurs well before I get any indication of such a play from England, and uclabb later takes credit in global chat for the triple-attack on France in 1901. But it is what it is, and in one sequence or another, England and Italy and I agree on the triple attack on France.

I send France a message asking for a DMZ in Burgundy, and suggest we talk about Belgium. We go back and forth a bit about bouncing, and France’s preference is the bounce, but we agree to DMZ. So I think.

The other major development is that Austria and I quickly establish a very good rapport. I probably trust him more than anyone else on the board by the end of 1901, and he is evidently quite active in the discussions re: France. More on that next turn. Russia and I talk about Sweden but I make no promises, and as far as the rest of the board is concerned, England is the only player who suggests I plan to let Russia have Sweden. I forget if France offers input at this point or next turn, but definitely everyone else suggests the bounce, with varying degrees of enthusiasm.


FALL 1901

I’ve put in for Burgundy, Denmark, and Kiel, expecting England to go to the channel and Italy to go to Piedmont. This is what happens, but with a twist: right before the phase changes, France sends me a message (which I don’t see) that he just got a message from italy saying italy will be moving to piedmont come hell or high water, and France says he’s just irked by the shiftiness of everything and won’t feel secure without moving to Burgundy. He supports himself there.

I find this explanation unbelievable, and so does England. We both think Austria told France about the attack on him. In hindsight, I know from another game and a recent EOG that when Sh@dow plays Austria, he likes to keep France alive so that Italy is soft for stabbing later (spoiler alert: I was Italy in that game), so I think reality is that this turn I’m getting misdirection from France and the truth from England. Italy and I both become suspicious of Austria and I’d be curious to hear from them if my hunch is right.

There are two main things to note about this phase.

First, there is some craziness going on between Italy, Austria, and Russia that I don’t really follow or remember well. The bounce in Gal was two broken DMZs last turn, some weirdness about Russia asking Italy to move to Trieste and Austria knowing about it and, well, I’m just super confused about the east right now. That said, the result of this drama, my fear of a jugg, and the possibility that Italy is actively encouraging a jugg leads to a very effective appeal from Austria to bounce Sweden, and a subtler request from Turkey to do the same. I lie to Russia about it all the same.

I botch my diplomacy with Turkey and/or Austria, by letting what Turkey says slip to Austria without swearing him to secrecy, and then forgetting (literally, I forget to send the messsage and then move on to other thoughts) to give Austria a hard time about compromising my relationship with Turkey.

And yes, Italy now wants to war with Austria and I don’t like it but I sort of give up convincing him not to. I try really hard and fail and give up, mostly because Italy insists negotiating with Austria is impossible. This will become a frequent theme: other players insisting Austria is impossible, and me having no idea what they mean because I find my conversations with Austria are always productive. Of course, behind the scenes, Austria isn’t always working for what I need, so I guess Sh@dow is just really good at being my neighbour.

Lastly, England and I are chatting and planning ahead about fighting a two-front war. We plan on moving on Russia next year and saving Belgium for me to take in 1902. I know folks generally think this is a risky move, but Italy’s also talking about fighting a two-front war himself, so I figure it’s doable.

BUILDS -- Fall 1901

This is where things start to go south for me. England and I talk a bit and his plans for 1902 are pretty different from what works well in my head. He doesn’t want me to build a fleet (he wants two armies), which I’m super uncomfortable with, and he’d prefer, but he argues Paris can offset Sweden. He is so adamant that I build two armies that I feel like I’ll lose him as an ally if I don’t agree, so I do so it.

And to be honest, I know this is a big mistake when I do it, or at least I feel like I’m making a big mistake in making zero fleets. With Russia in GoB and angry at me, I’m feeling like I really need to just lock down Baltic ASAP, but I go along with England’s plan because he’s nervous about me having access to NTH.

In the east, Austria wants Italy to waive his build and give up Trieste immediately. I think, and Italy seems to agree, that we should just let Austria write the orders for the extra Italian unit. Austria does not agree and this impasse is not resolved. I’d love to hear from YHN and Sh@dow about this because I really can’t do justice to the extent of disagreement between Italy and Austria during these negotiations. Italy does not waive his build, and this argument flows into 1902.

SPRING 1902

This is actually the phase where my game just completely falls apart. You can trace it all back to choices I make, too.

Russia is unhappy with me and doesn’t trust me. Fair enough, he shouldn’t, I’m totally planning to try to give England Sweden (though I’m unhappy about that plan). Italy and I come up with the idea that if Italy moves to Albania, maybe something can be salvaged. I beg Austria to take this as a sign of good faith, but he refuses. Italy’s moves end up not being super pro-Austrian so after this turn I still don’t know what’s going on there, and my conversations with Italy are all along the lines of him making a Herculean effort to make Austria happy but just nothing is ever enough so he throws his hands up in frustration and his armies at Austria.

Meanwhile, France sends me a message that he thinks England is a top player who just joined a low bet game so he could try unconventional strategies. I think this is a weird thing for a person to say. But this is the first of several times France plays up this narrative to me.

England and I have to talk about Sweden. He wants it, and many reasons are debated, quite amicably, but I agree and I don’t feel good about it at all. I have a conversation with Austria about it, and I’m thinking about things a lot more like Austria is who makes the case to me (preaching to the choir) that it’s better for me to get Sweden. More reasons for uneasiness.

So the plan England have is Nor-Swe supported by Den. Next piece of the puzzle is Russia. Basically, what I’m doing right now is asking Russia what he’s doing, feeding those plans to England, and hoping it’ll help us pocket Sweden. I also lie to Russia about supporting him to Sweden to keep Baltic clear.

And I remember this moment extremely clearly. Something feels off about my press with England, and that coupled with my insecurity over GoB heading to Baltic gets me considering to just move to Baltic and Prussia anyway, and apologize to England next turn if Russia bounces him out of Sweden. I’m actually sitting at a bar, out for drinks with friends after work, 10 minutes before the phase changes, debating with myself about two sets of orders. Deeply uncomfortable. I decide not to change my orders, for fear of becoming an unreliably ally.

And boy is that a mistake.

AUTUMN 1902

England moves to Sweden and Picardy, all right and as planned, but Russia moves to Baltic, Prussia, and England supports France to Belgium (instead of supporting Holland to Belgium as agreed). France sends me a “told you so” message about England being eccentric or unconventional, and Russia also sends me a message to the same effect about bouncing him in Sweden.

I actually forgot I did this until I went back and checked, but I decide to mute England for 24 hours in an attempt to appear more credible to France and Russia and flip one of them. It doesn’t really work so I unmute England the next day. Never tried something like this before, probably won’t again. Would be curious to hear if tactically muting players ever works.


And yes, Austria and Italy are fighting and my feeling about it is just mass confusion. I don’t know what on earth is going on.

Oh, my moves: I defend Berlin, and use Holland to cover Kiel. France actually tells me England is thinking about hitting Holland, and he’s sort of helping me now, but it’s not clear what his thinking is and he obviously doesn’t totally trust me ‘cause I’m in Burgundy. I use Burgundy to move to Belgium, but I’m pretty sure I just tell France I’m doing. My thinking is, maybe Hol bounces Baltic in Kiel, and if England goes for Holland, no support and I keep both.

Bad moves though. Predictably, Russia goes for the guaranteed build in Denmark, and England moves to Holland, so I lose both. Should have trusted France or thought through these moves better.

BUILDS - AUTUMN 1902

France basically goes rogue and betrays England without telling me. Love to know France’s thinking on going ahead with this strategy of just committing hard against England while I’m on death’s doorstep. He unsuccessfully stabs at Brest, but England still gets insanely angry at France and sends me a message apologizing for the stab and saying he’ll do whatever it takes to take France out. The about face is shocking and unconvincing in how quickly it happens.

I disband Berlin, England builds A Lon, F Edi, France builds F Mar, and in the south, Russian and Italian subterfuge -- it seems to me at this point that Italy is openly courting the jugg but I really can’t get a good handle on it -- leads to Turkey taking Serbia and Italy taking Greece. England tries really hard to get me to disband my fleet in the North Sea, but I don’t feel like unilaterally disarming myself in front of him one more time. At this point, I’m very much undecided about what to do about this conflict between England and Russia, and worse than that, I don’t know how to decide.

So the realignment after this disaster is as follows: France and I become quite hesitant allies (really can’t say we’re allies yet), mostly because I don’t know that I can trust anyone, but we are both united in wanting Italy and Austria to stop fighting and deal with Turkey and Russia (as best as I can tell). And I’m poised for a quick exit, much like Austria.

Amusingly, England cops to being a sucker for novelty during the build phase in our press, lending some credibility to earlier French press about England being unconventional, eccentric, and untrustworthy.

SPRING 1903

I had forgotten but Russia misses this phase. This is also the beginning of England repeatedly apologizing to me for the 1902 stab, ostensibly because he and France just cannot cooperate or get on the same page about anything no matter what happens. Repeatedly.

I take France’s advice and try to use my North Sea fleet as leverage with England to get support to Denmark and take it back from Russia. There’s lots of back and forth with England and France and it’s hard to characterize it well now -- France is and has been counseling me to get Russia and England fighting, and England and Russia have a falling out before this that buys me some pull with England.

So England and I come up with a plan, which involves some tactical cuts of Russia to minimize the odds of Kie being vulnerable in the fall, and maximize our chances retaking Denmark in the fall whatever Russia. Unfortunately, Russia misses the phase, and we would have been a lot better off not hedging our bets. I tell Russia I’m going to Denmark, and that I’ve told everyone that, because I want Russia to believe he can’t use Denmark as a supporting unit. I actually do move to Denmark, but have to retreat to Heli, which was the plan England and I had agreed on.

At the same time, France is working behind the scenes to get England and Russia fighting, and England and Russia appear to have some kind of clash of personalities as well, which I’m hearing from England, Austria, and France now. So I’m pretty confident I can work with England against Russia.

FALL 1903

England and I are kind of hosed on getting Denmark because I don’t trust France enough to move Munich to Kiel (another recurring theme in this game - me not trusting France enough to leave Munich; this hamstrings me for years later in the game) as I needed to in the spring.

So England starts pitching me and France with a western triple hard. The jugg is looking really strong, and England’s attempt to stab me last year by flipping France and Russia ended up with him fighting France and Russia and allied back with me, so I understand where he’s coming from. Not an effective 1902 stab.

A dynamic, which will last quite a while, now emerges in full force: France tells me England is obstinate and a man who cannot be trusted or partnered with safely. England tells me he’ll “tell me the whole story” later (maybe he will now!) and apologizes again for the 1902 stab. It’s like he just found out France is a serial killer or something.

England and France’s WT negotiations fall apart in a message England sends me that can really only be described as a man screaming in rage and despair about how impossible France. I honestly don’t know what on earth is going between these two because it makes no sense. France also starts telling me everything will work out “as long as we stick together” which is a strange thing to say given the game so far, but he repeats it a lot from now on. Also strange in that it implies that we’re together, a premise I never reject verbally but definitely don’t accept mentally.

The WT falls apart. France retakes Brest (which was English this whole time), and Russia takes Sweden off England’s hands.

In east, I honestly don’t know what’s going on. I’m surprise I still have centers and I’ve neglected developments there.

-----1904------
So this year is characterized by much the same dynamic: me and England, trying to attack Russia, France fighting England with dogged determination no matter what else happens or is said. Fall 1904 in particular is a fantastic turn for France, probably the turn that sets him up to be a powerhouse for the rest of the game.

After builds, England starts talking WT again, and ostensibly that’s the idea going through with the spring moves. So England and I successfully retake Sweden and Denmark by the end of the fall, but surprise, surprise, France stabs England for London and Holland in the fall. England sort of sees it coming, in that he tells me (too lazy to get and copy and paste but this is pretty close) “I bet France guts me this turn. I would”. Well, France does.

So at the end of the year, I’ve clawed my way back to 4, England is also on 4, but France has leapfrogged to 8 centers.

--- 1905-1906 -----

These are probably my favourite years, because for a little while there, it looks like if I play my cards right, I might go somewhere. England and France are hopelessly entangled, and can’t make heads or tails of each other. The impression I get from both of them is that their press is like matter and anti-matter -- universe just explodes around them whenever they talk to each other. They’re never going to ally and nothing else could be more clear.

So my broad hope for these two years, at the start of 1905, is just to ride out the slow fight between England and France and figure out who to side with once I have an idea of who would be easier to stab later. Something like that, anyway. I’m pretty indecisive and I flip back and forth between the two pretty much each turn. My flip-flopping becomes pretty obvious and honestly kind of futile -- I’m feeding France and England each other’s moves, faking misorders, the whole gamut. If I’d have settled on a strategy at the start of 1905 and thought through this midgame better, I might have made it into a draw or had a chance at a solo run myself. Which I hope is to say slightly more than if things there were different, they’d have been different.

By the start of 1905, the board is something like IA (with Austria still on 2 centers) vs RT, and RTE vs F, with me just being sort of inert. I am still hopelessly deadset on the idea that my best bet for builds is to attack Russia, and you don’t need much hindsight to know that’s stubborn and silly thinking. I just want my 1902 back.

France loses London in 1905, and I spend 1906 convincing England I’m definitely, 100% his ally. And then France convinces me to take a stab at Edi and move to Den so I can take Sweden. No centers change hands in 1906, but England is unimpressed.

Somewhere around this time, I start getting message from Turkey, who hasn’t spoken to me in a while. He basically messages me a couple times a turn from now on, saying, “you crazy man don’t help france you must fight him or he will stab you and try to solo”. Not an exact quote. Obviously the board bears out this prediction but I don’t heed his advice.

I should also talk about the east. Almost forgot to. It’s gonna be exciting in 1907 and 1908, so better lay this ground work right. Italy by the end of 1906 is using his extra army as an Austrian and he’s gotten into Galicia. With his help, I take Warsaw in 1905, but make no progress against Russia in 1906.

-----1907 ----
So in the spring, France is telling me I gotta move Denmark to Sweden, and hit Edi again. I am extremely nervous because France is still parked in Holland and Belgium, and the rest of my units are in Sil, War, and Liv. Basically I’m a sitting duck and really it’s a miracle I’m not already eating baguettes and cheese.

So I balk at the move to Sweden and go back to Kiel, while France deals with his tactical nightmare, of England being on his way out because the island is surrounded despite an English fleet making it into MAO.

In the east, I get Italy into Ukraine, which is fun. But in the fall --- surprise, surprise -- Austria retakes Trieste! And Russia guesses right in covering Moscow, so no disband for Russia which I desperately need if I’m going to beat him. France gets a build though, he retakes London, and England loses his forward position. The east is particularly bad because we could have taken Rumania but it was a guess. What can you do...

France bitches me out super hard about leaving Denmark to go to Kiel in the fall. Lots of stuff about how England should already be out, how it’s super clear that I’m waffling and hedging my bets but really need buckle down and be a part of an alliance and stuff. VillageIdiot really sells a folksy kind of innocence in his press, but there are a couple of things that set off alarms and tell me I shouldn’t trust him (ie at one point he refers to getting into a draw as “being in the win” or something which, honestly, who says that?).

Turkey probably sends me a bunch of more messages this year saying I should ally with England and not France. I don’t heed his advice, and my justification is, well, if France wanted my centers, he’d already have them because I haven’t defended myself in years! I guess he doesn’t want them yet? Not exactly iron clad thinking.

----1908----

So this year is less exciting, because I’ve decided waffling and hedging isn’t working and I need to just pick between England and France. I also feel overcommitted in the east and pull out of Sil to put a unit back in Munich, so that I can defend Kie from France’s stubborn, lingering army in Holland. A part of our deal is that he’s going to return Holland from me (this has definitely come up sooner) but up until now, he’s always been under threat of a disband and so in a year or two earlier when I could have gotten Holland off him, he asked me not to. And now it’s just a big struggle for me to get a unit into Kiel in a spring phase that can physically move to Holland.

But anyway -- France and I see to it that England is going out, and I actually get all of Scandinavia. So now I’ve got Nor, Swe, Den, War, plus my home centers. It could be looking up. Russia and I, who (I think) have been amicably sparring verbally as I try to kill, both recognize that this means I now have the numbers to beat him in the north and will eventually. Hilariously, I send him a message which contains this:

“Now, don't count yourself out... France could still try to solo, and if he does, you'll probably make it to the draw.”

Also important: in the fall, France moves to Burgundy. This move to Burgundy is crucial, because it makes it really hard for me to cover Munich and spare a unit to take Holland. I don’t give France nearly as hard a time about Burgundy as I should.

This is the point where I start taking Turkey’s warnings about the French solo threat a bit more seriously...mentally at least. They’re not really influencing my moves because in my head, I just get StP and Moscow quickly enough, I’ll be able to defend against French incursions and there won’t be a solo threat.

----1909----

For maybe the third or fourth time in the game, this is a year that goes badly for me but could have gone well with maybe just two different orders. Two different orders is huge, though.

In the east, I make a play that is pretty much guaranteed to swap StP for Warsaw in the spring, and then in the fall, our best joint shot is for me and Austria to both take a swing at Warsaw and Moscow, since Russia can only save one. I’m supporting both moves, but Austria is the one with an army going to Warsaw. France actually suggests this same moveset to me, but it’s after Austria and I independently agree on it.

And France...still parked in Burgundy. This Burgundy army is giving me nightmares. I actually could move Kie-Hol in the fall this year (France does vacate Holland as promised) but I moved to Munich ‘cause this is the most paranoid I’ve been in a game about anyone.

Most amusingly, France has EDI and LVP locked up with his fall moves, but “misorders” his support in and LVP survives. England retreats Edi to NWG and keeps his fleet alive, disbanding lvp. Having already done the fake misorder thing myself, I’m something like 2000% sure France is about to come for me.

Turkey and I have a chat and I’m pretty much with him at this point, I just don’t want him to be right. I raise the possibility of bumping North Sea to keep Edi alive (France’s move is North supporting Yorkshire to Edi) and buy myself some more time, but Turkey’s pretty circumspect about that possibility. So Denmark holds and, I don’t know, it probably should not have but at this point I don’t know if that would have been enough. Looking back at my press, I can’t believe I couldn’t come up with a way to get France to get out of Burgundy in 1908 or 1909.


---1910----
The spring phase is just this awful feeling of dread because I know France is going to stab me. Whatever else is being said, the obvious fake misorder, England’s retreat, and Burgundy holding last fall just paint a really clear picture. Turkey and I talk moves for defence -- he suggests I go to Ruhr, but I figure France will be supporting himself to Ruhr so I decide getting armies in Mun and Kie is really all I can do.

France and I are going through the motions and just pretending this turn is business as usual. Time for me to take Holland, him to leave Burgundy, and his fleets to move south and attack Italy. I wonder if I should have just confronted the inevitably of his stab head on this turn, but I feared acknowledging its logic invited the stab, and maybe he wasn’t gonna do it, what did I know? But I put in my defensive moves in the spring, which also means I can’t help Austria hold on to Warsaw, so for sure Russia’s getting that back.

I am, in some limited sense, right to defend, because France stabs me. I have a shot at defending in the fall because I get a bounce in the North sea, although France ends up in Ruhr, Tyrolia, and Heli. I really encourage everyone to look at Spring 1910 on the board because this is a pretty awesome stab. I have few options for defense despite guessing right on all of France’s moves this turn, and I mess those up too.

First, I feel some obligation to help Austria survive while defending for the draw and I don’t think I have much of a shot without the use of his army, so much too quickly, I agree that he can have Berlin as long as we play the next two turns in defense of getting me back in Munich. Second, Italy and I work out a plan that gives us close to 50/50 on saving Munich, but I change my mind at the last minute and do something else. If I’d gone with the original plan which Italy and I came up with (which needed a different disagreement with Austria), I would have saved in Munich. Instead, I end up losing Munich and Berlin at the end of this year. Pretty brutal.

-----1911----
Austria starts trying to get France at the doorstep of the solo ASAP, and this is not an approach I really agree with. For the first time in the game, I can’t get the logic behind Austria’s moves. He supports France to Kiel from Berlin and starts advocating that I just give up Scandinavia.

Austria is putting himself in position to take Venice, which will compromise the stalemate line. I talk with Turkey and I come to the decision that I don’t really want France to solo, so I’ll help make the moves necessary to save Venice. Unfortunately, Turkey misorders (curious to see if this was a real misorder) and Austria gets into Venice, meaning that my move is wasted, although my army in Bohemia was not useful to me anyway at this point.

In the north, France has me basically nailed to the wall, it’s just a matter of time. I only lose Denmark and Kiel this year, which means I’m all out of home centers.

In the east, Turkey moves to Galicia. This is notable to me only because I see a faint glimmer of a two-way draw at this point, between France and Turkey. I think this is the year where I talk to Russia about it, but he shoots it down, doesn’t think uclabb would play with that much fire. Ultimately, he’s right, although I’d say tactically, looking at the board at any point after this fall, the two-way draw feels like a pretty solid prediction still.

-----1912-----
I’ve only got Sweden, Norway, and StP left, and it’s impossible for me to defend, well, any of them long-term. I’m asking Turkey how an earth I might possibly expect to make it into a draw and he tells me, if I cut Kiel, they’ll get rid of Austria (he is still in Berlin, and I have retreated to Baltic from Denmark), whose efforts to throw the game to France are frustrating all of us, and then next turn they’ll potentially be able to get Berlin into Munich and my Baltic fleet into Berlin.

I don’t really buy this but I don’t see any other option at this point. I start planting a seed with France that I’ll help push his solo threat as far as it can go it things keep going the way they are, and that my Baltic fleet is a pretty useful unit as far as units go these days. I play up how much I don’t want France to solo with Turkey, hoping that it’ll suss out some honesty from him in the future.

France doesn’t really understand my decision to facilitate Austria’s elimination, and neither does Austria. Austria sends me a pretty heartbroken message. It’s a bit over the top and I’m not sure I buy he could be the crushed, but I’ll say right now, Sh@dow, I was really sad to be instrumental in your exit and I’d definitely do it differently if I could.

----1913----
So I ask Turkey what the deal is with his plan from last turn about Berlin. His message to me is pretty awesome, so I’ll copy and paste it.

“(To: You, from Turkey) - Spring, 1913: I think that there are going to be a bunch of support holds this turn, and we are going to let France knock you out. Sorry.”

So my last gambit begins. I ask Russia for Moscow, who says all decision go through Turkey. Fair enough, I’d say. I try to be conciliatory with Russia and tell him that if he moves to complete the line with his own units as he and Turkey are planning, all I can really do is try to throw the game to France. But Russia doesn’t really buy any possibility of a two-way draw or a Turkish solo run later down the road.

The answer is no, so in the spring I use my Baltic fleet to convoy France’s army in Denmark to Livonia, and it’s got support from my army in StP. It’s a bounce because Russia orders Mos S War - Liv, as he told me Turkey had asked him to.

I send Rusisa and Turkey both a message after the phase, saying that I’m going to keep helping France unless they give me Moscow. Turkey gets indignant and basically tells me where to go.

With France, I am thinking we basically have one shot. Either we get him into Livonia or Berlin this turn, in which case (and I haven’t really plotted out the tactics) then I’ll switch sides rapidly and try to see if there are moves that get the line back in a way where I’m necessary, or we don’t and probably that’s the end of the line for me. Turkey accepts this risk, and I’d love to hear uclabb’s thinking about it in more depth.

Along the way, England and Austria come back from the grave and ask me what’s up. We chat about why I’m trying to help France solo, and they give me moral support, which is awfully nice of them considering that I helped eliminate both of them.

Anyway, we guess wrong and go for Livonia instead of Berlin. France is trying to work some diplomacy behind the scenes with Turkey and I gather it is unsuccessful.

----1914---

Pretty much just waiting for France to decide it’s time to knock me out now. We give Livonia one last try, and guess wrong again, this time on my behalf. Russia and Turkey try to get Munich, and Turkey tells me that if we’d have gone for Berlin and lost Munich as a result, they would have given me Berlin. Not sure I believe him, but that’s basically the end of it.

France takes Sweden and StP the next turn, and that’s it for me. The game goes for a bit and I linger in global and talk to Turkey/Russia a bit, but eventually I’m just waiting for it to play out. There’s a big fight in global near the end of the draw (6 years later) and I guess the four that made it to the draw can tell us that.

All in all, this game was a rollercoaster, but everyone was great to play with. There was a lot of drama in global about various things which I haven’t touched on here because honestly I didn’t really pay a ton of attention and I don’t know what’s up, so I’ll just offer my two cents.

Had a lot of fun working with and against MKECharlie and VillageIdiot, and ssorenn was also fun to chat with, though he definitely made me feel guilty about lying to him profusely like 100 times. Sh@dow is a fantastic player to communicate with, but I swear he’s cursed: two games in a row I’m your neighbour and I get eliminated. Going to have to do something about that. YHN and I worked well together but my mistakes kept us from being able to do more, and I wish I could have gotten on the same as page as uclabb earlier.

Looking forward to reading EOGs from everyone who wants to post one, and I hope everyone wants to write one!

Great EOG Stack! I wish I had done a better job convincing you in the 1908-10 years to take a French stab more seriously. I definitely was sending you somewhat halfhearted messages, and if anything my weak arguments probably just got you to defend your alliance with France and thus stick with it. :-(

Anyway, I'll try to get one up tomorrow and definitely by the weekend.

It would be really cool to get EOGs from everyone. I really enjoyed yours, and definitely have a lot of questions about a lot of the decisions people were making. There were a lot of WTF moments that need context.

I agree with uclabb, that was a fantastic EoG Stack, i am willing to write one( wont be anything near Stack's) as long as the heated elements stay out of it....this game went sideways and potshots were taken, and i am not letting mine or anyone elses leave the game

That is an absolutely fantastic EOG Stack. 5 star rating. Thoroughly appreciated.
I don't even have recollection of what happened in every phase now - the game started so long ago and I don't have notes. All I know is that I played an atrocious game and I lost. If everyone ends up posting EOGs though, I will also go through all old press and try and construct a full re-enactment.

Glad everyone enjoyed it, and I'd love to hear from everyone about the game, even if not everyone is able to post a full EOG. This game had tons of twists and turns and there's no shortage of stuff for us to go over. If we're getting EOGs from uclabb and ssorenn (and I think VillageIdiot at some point?) it'd definitely be good if you chimed in Sh@dow.

uclabb, I'm honestly not sure what you could have said. Not that I'm so stubborn I can't see reason, but by 1908 I was just so entangled with Russia that I don't see how I could have shifted gears to fight France without just being a lamb for the slaughter in a different way -- he had builds coming I couldn't stop, and I had no source of growth at all and French armies all up around my border. I really think my deeper mistakes were made in 1905 and 1906, when England was a realistic ally, and legitimately seemed interested in working with me again.

Stack, if you had not lied to me from the get go, i may have let you turn towards France, but the way it all went down, i would have crawled right up your ass had you turned..:P

Great job Stack, i'll try to pitch in shortly too.

Let's do my dishonesty some justice, ssorenn. I didn't just lie to you from the get go. Pretty much everything I said to you all game was a lie, at least everything that mattered before 1910 or so.

But you did send me a "let's let bygones be bygones" message at one point before then, though, and I'm pretty sure I was honest when I replied and said I still just wanted to get Mos and StP. You're saying that message was as true as everything I'd ever told you?

when you had me pinned, the truth came out, and when you begged for your life, the truth was told there too....so i guess not all lies :P

And without further adieu, here's the world through the eyes of FRANCE...

PART 1: THE BEGINNING (aka: Hey Bresto / Oh F*ck!)
------------------------------------------------------

This game got off to a super rocky start with me.

Turkey was the first person to reach out to me with a super long message about how distant powers can really help each other and how each of us being strong really be bneficial to the other
and yadda-yadda. My response to back was enthusiastic agreement, but was short which Turkey seemed to imply as not taking it seriously and an insult which was the start of a chain reaction of anti-France feelings that would follow us throughout the game.

I'd done my standard relationship building with Italy, England, and Germany and all seemed to be going fine enough. England (MEKCharlie) openly expressed some apprehension about an
alliance as he expressed that he felt an E/F alliance is too likely to lead to stabs. Was a bit of a surprise to me as i always felt it a very natural pairing. Some red flags started
popping up shortly after as all my neighbors in succession started requesting for DMZ's of Pied, Burg, and EC rather then bounces.

England then came up with a super creative idea of a strategy i'd never heard before called "Hey Bresto". The general idea of this strategy is that France agree's to concede Brest to
England so that England and France can easily align without fear of France building fleets in the north or starting any surprise attacks on England without him seeing it coming a mile away.
If i was willing to do this he was willing to align with me over Germany. Interesting back story: I ended up googling "Hey Bresto" and one of the first results was a link to this post
from our forum (http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=697656) where my good friend MadMarx was introducing MKECharlie to the move and Charlie dying to try it out sometime. This
completely outted the identity of England and gave me some insight into his motivations which i'd put into use down the road. More on that later.

I'd diplomatically rejected the Hey Bresto opening as too bold for my tastes, although the hard sell did continue for a while. Red flags continue as Italy starts making unexpected requests
for a bounce in Pied. Add to the concern Austria has begun tipping me off about an imminent Italy/Germany attack with likely English invovlement as well. I couldn't tell if it was
fearmongering or legitimate assistance. Austria's help seemed random and i couldn't ready him well, others had made reference to Austria as well so i had some concerns he may be the pot-
stirrer type.

Time to go into defence mode. I'd confronted Italy about my concerns telling him not to bounce me and cited hearing information about an imminent attack, I'd sent Germany a message about
Italy's plans to go to Pied which now is forcing me to need to go to Burg to feel safe (something i really intended to do anyways but now could justify).

Spring 1901 plays out and Austria warning comes true and i'm attacked on all sides. Germany gets nowhere as I've supported myself into Burg but England is in EC and Italy is in Pied. I'm
feeling pretty screwed right now.


PART 2: Twisting Lemons into Lemonade
------------------------------------------------------

Time to start working on damage control and diffuse this situation.

Italy's a fairly easy start. Having peiced together where the tip off came from he's quick to be pissed off at Austria and while not willing to pull out of Pied he at least agrees he's
going to start going to war with austria. After a failed attempt to try to snipe Mars in the fall we eventually strike full on peace and he pulls out and puts all attention eastward.

Germany stops talking to me completely and carries on his attack.

Diplomatic bridges with Turkey gets burnt to the ground with an unwarranted message calling me pathetic. Key turning point for understanding our dynamic for the remainder of the game.

This leaves England as the key swing player here. I decide to start using the insight i have into him to try to work an angle, my theory is he's more interested his motivation in this game
is just to try out some new strategies. He'd been making a lot of bold moves in games lately and had just come off a solo from a Top 200 GR game where that unorthodoxed attitude really
paid off for him. By end of fall 1901 he was in Brest already which gave him his "Hey Bresto" so I started pitching to him a bunch of crazy ideas as i was desperate and willing to do any
strategy he wanted so long as he decided not to kill me off. I offered immunity in Brest, my blessings for passage through MAO so he could get a seldom seen British fleet in Turkey, and
sweet blindsides on Germany. It was a dream scenario for a cowboy like Charlie. He bites and now we're allies with me in the lacky role and England freed up to stage an attack on Germany
with support of Russia.

And then in the nick of time i screw England in 1902 blocking him from getting a fleet into MAO and Brest and Germany's new best friend who's now feeling extremely desperate with attacks on
both sides. From this moment i was able to finally get a decent enough grip in the game and finally start building some momentum


PART 3: Finally, Traction!!
------------------------------------------------------

Come Fall 1904 things were looking quite up. Myself and Germany were seeing quite a bit of success, relations with Italy were strong and he and Austria are doing a terrific job of keeping Turkey pinned down. I don't recall the sales pitch but somehow I manage to convince Russia it's a good idea to attack England which temporarily costs England most his centers in Scandinavia. I somehow manage to make another deal with England that gets him out of my lands and sends his fleets towards Russia which eventually opens up an opportunity for me to get myself into London. Unfortunately a misorder in Spring 05 (sorry to disappoint, but really was a legit misorder) ended up setting me a couple years behind on my campaign against England. Progress got stalled more than a few times as well due to Germany dragging his feet on a few occasions, occasionally due to feelings of paranoia where he'd need to pull back and cover a centers and other times just to subtly slow by growth. I'm generally a player who likes to find a stable and reliable ally and roll with them throughout the game but as Germany was starting to appear as a person i couldn't fully rely on I began to consider an exit strategy out of this alliance.

Around this time Turkey started up his "France is going to solo" fear mongering campaign despite me only sitting at a mere 6 SC's. Starting in 1906 Turkey would start popping his head up briefly to make silly demands like giving Germany a center or stop growing under threat of orchestrating stalemate. By this point i was only at 8 SC's so was silly and the threats only further drew a wedge between us.

In Spring 1907 we ended up having an extended pause as Turkey was headed on vacation. Would seem the downtime gave Austria some ideas as the next round he ended up stabbing his ally Italy. I was pretty disappointed by this as it was starting to look like the Juggernaut was almost completely extinguished and Russia was on track to be eliminated in the near future. They would spend time as both enemies and allies through the rest of the game but the broken trust never allowed either to really get any momentum again.


Part 4: Making My Move
------------------------------------------------------

Come Fall 1909 England was decimated and down to 1 SC left which was surrounded. I had already begun an attack on Italy which was a foiled attempt. England, wanting to see Germany pay for his decisions, agreed to cease all attempts to defend against me and use his left over fleet to help me attack germany if i wanted to. As i was already planning my separation from him and at the time Germany was very distracted out east i agreed. Germany saw the stab coming but still wasn't able to fully defend himself against it and began suffering losses by fall 1910. Out of concern of England seeing a chance at getting back in the game i ended up knocking out his last center for personal peace of mind. It may have ultimately helped to keep him engaged but didn't want to take the risk.

In the east the Juggernaut was really making a lot of headway largely part to breakdown in the I/A alliance and my pressure on Italy. Despite my progress towards Italy and the southern stalemate lines, Turkey refused to let up on Italy to give him the freedom to defend properly against me allow me to really make some headway. Not sure if it was strategic or spite but eventually Italy would make some moves to grant me passage into Tunisia to really hammer home risk of me as a solo threat. I was starting to have hope that the diplomatic tension between Turkey, Austria, and Italy may actually give me a shot at taking this all the way. Austria was down to only a couple centers left and started making offers to help me anyway he could before dying as we'd maintained a good relationship throughout the game and was upset nobody seemed to be taking the solo risk serious.

Unfortunately Germany eventually dropped the final nail in Austria's coffin and Italy and Turkey seemed to work out their differences and the stalemate line started to form. Germany's centers would be easily attainable for me still, but that would only still only give me access to 17 centers with the rest locked down. Things were looking difficult.


Part 5: Hail Mary Time
------------------------------------------------------

The stalemate was quickly closing up but i still had a couple things still working in my favour. Turkey boldly told Germany that he was not to be included in the draw under any circumstance which immediately helped me recruit him to my cause. Russia was sitting at a modest 5 SC's and Italy 3 SC's leaving both feeling very vulnerable especially with neither of them seeming to have an overly tight relationship with Turkey and other expendable countries starting to be cut loose.

As my new relationship with Germany was not yet in the open i struck a deal with Russia to grant him Stp while i finished off Sweden and then from there we could all take out italy in safety. This was all intended to distract Russia away from a vulnerability he had in Berlin with some intricate moves. It had about a 50/50 chance of success vs doing something that could harm me, depending where Russia defended and assumed Germany would continue to work with me rather then try to save his skin. It was risky but as it was likely one of my last shots at getting a solo we decided to go for it. Unfortunately as we got to the final hour before the round turned over I think i may have over sold it a bit and Russia backed out and me and Germany called off the move. Turned out to be a missed opportunity, had we gone through Berlin would have been mine.

Wasn't a sure fire solo as Germany likely would have then tried to find a way back in the game at my expense, but it was at least an opening that got passed up. After that Turkey boldly pointed out the vulnerability in the press box so assuming the window having closed we gave up on that and moved on to other ideas. Bad move since the very next round Russia left Berlin vulnerable again and again missed a prime shot.

Things wound down after this. Soon as the stalemate was locked i would knock out Germany in order to start with negotiations over taking out Italy. This would prove to be a lot more difficult then expected since despite Turkey wanting to knock out Italy was terrified to communicate that out of fear of it being forwarded on and Italy throwing the game. The earlier head-butting made it impossible for us to really connect to any point of trusting each other with Turkey feeling like he was being baited and i was feeling like i was being jacked around by somebody who had a contempt for me. Irrationality won out in the end and we ultimately finished the game with an unnecessary four person draw.



THE CAST
------------------------------------------------------

MKECharlie: Really great player. Total risk taker and loves to shake things up, makes for an interesting game.

StackelbergFollower: He made life very difficult for me because he was always concious of his weak spots and was clever in how he'd control the tempo of the game with subtle stalling. The udnermining doesn't really make him best ally.

Your Humble Narrator: Super nice guy, loyal, respectful, cool head. Didn't get plenty of opportunity to really tangle with him but liked talking with him. Even when things got a little heated at the end while everybody fought over whether to keep him or kill him he was calm throughout.

Uclabb: The guy knows his stuff and could play the game great in his sleep, but unfortunately it felt like he was. Around midgame we managed to have some good conversations but inside the game his diplomacy skills leaved much to be desired. We just couldn't manage to see eye-to-eye on anything.

ssorenn: I've had a few games with him now. He's more then capable and generally a nice guy. When the pressure really turned up he became a bit unglued which personally turned me off quite a bit.

Sh@dow: Had played him once before this but really got to know his strengths in this game. Plays a good behind the scenes game and really knows tactics well despite not really getting his feet in this one. Not surprised by his rapid rise to the top of the GR this past year.

Nice EOG, VI, some interesting revelations there. And an important lesson - don't use the names for strategies that you used on the forums!

I'll comment some more tomorrow but just wanna clear up, the S05 misorder isn't the one I'm questioning. I think I'm the one with a fake misorder somewhere in there - and the one from you I thought was fake was F09.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that! Embarrassingly that was an innocent mis-order as well, but that one actually did work out in my favour.

Jeez, I botch moves a lot, I can only imagine how high i'd be on the GR if I was just a little more meticulous.

The Art of War 2 EoG, by Russia (ssorenn)

First I would like to thank all
involved, as this for the most part was one of the more exciting games I've
played on site . The players have already been listed infectious EoG's and I'll
leave it at that. Where to start? My nervous hit the ceiling when I got into
this game. I consider myself a capable player, but with the rest of the field so
talented, I was a little unsure, and I drew Russia,OY!

Spring 01:
Basic
please tries were sent out. And most were quite chatty. Everyone feeling out
their neighbors and potentials for the mid-game. Turkey was first, and very
direct(which I like and can appreciate). He describes Jugg with moving his Ank
fleet out to med as long as I DMZ BLA. Perfect, I actually like playing Russia
this way, and in this type of game, easier I think is better. I know, or at
least pretty sure, it's not a game long alliance, but enough to have my southern
forces in good shape to approach mid game . France a world away seems please t
enough, and we hope that the future is bright for both. Italy, says he's going
west in conjunction with the German , and this says jugg can start to roll,
especially with no lepanto coming. He German(for the only time in the game till
the last year he's alive) is honest and forthcoming, and I say I will
concentrate south and he has no worries from me, all I expect is Sweden in fall.
The English, are different. He says he wants to shake things up, and try a new
move but needs to go find exactly how it works from the Internet. OK, I am
willing to listen. He also claims, not to move north as Barents sea leaves him
too exposed. Feeling a little secure in the south, why not listen. Then I get
the Austrians press, and he's obviously proposing an A/R. This is actually the
last thing I want, but we keep the discussion going. Both the Turk and the
Austrian want an immediate answer to being their ally. I don't think I gave
either a direct answer in 01, but as I said, I was already inclined to go with
Turkey. I ask, or demand a bounce in Galicia which the Austrian has really no
choice but to give me, because I said I was moving there and if he didn't want
me there bounce would be prudent . Now that a bounce in Galicia is happening, I
get the Turk to agree that bounce BLA is probably best too. Springs move go off
without a hitch.

There was a lot more subterfuge press in 01, and things
were difficult at best to discern . All seemed to work out though.

Fall 01

The press in the east, is most unusual. I think I have an ally in turkey but
I'm trying to keep the Austrian on the hook, just in case. I said before that
the Turk was direct, and all press between the three of us (A/R/T) everyone
knows, and nothing's a real secret. The Turk is adamant that were good, and the
Austrian still wants to work it out, but I insist on another bounce in Galicia.
He's more than annoyed. Then he starts to lecture me. The German says he will
let me in Sweden , but says he's been asked by many to bounce me. I reply, if
you bounce me it's all out war. The English tell me, he has a good working
relationship with the German and says he has told the German to let me have
Sweden. Jugg about to be in swing, Italian moving west, an Austrian who isn't
buying my bullshit anymore, but I think I'm about to be a 6 sc Russia. Not too
bad for this game. Then I get press from Italian, that says he thinks the Turk
and Austrian will gang up on me. Nasty press goes back and forth all turn trying
to figure out what's real. I was sure he was fishing because he was west and
didn't want the infighting in Balkans to stop, but I still needed info. Knowing,
I'm going to have issues with the Austrian, I stay in the Italians ear, and talk
about Trieste. How lovely it is in fall. In 01 I made insinuations about a
possible wintergreen and knew if italy bit, I had my out from the jugg. We would
all kill the austrian, and then wintergreen would take over and we would kill
the Turk. The Italian bit, and took Trieste in fall. But the German bounced me
in Sweden.

The rest of the EoG will be not so detailed

Still had a good
relationship with turkey, who was very complacent, the Italian stabbed the
Austrian, and now all I needed was turkey to get serbia with my help and he
would help me with Bud and then the Italian and I could start to work together.
The next year turkey got serbia and the Italian is now telling me I need to
attack turkey. I say I need the build from Bud first and then I will, but for
some reason he doesn't believe Me, and now is supporting the Austrian. Fuck. I
was so close. It's a stand off in the Balkans. Meanwhile in the north, I'm so
pissed at the German, I move everything I have at him. I have armies in Prussia
and Warsaw with my fleet in Baltic. I start having long conversations with the
English, who are thriving and tell him how deceitful the German is, and we
should squish him. I also try to help the French by getting the English to back
off and then can be E/F against the German and E/R against the German. Hoping
this pimple on my ass can be squished once and for all. I get Denmark with an
army convoy with English support and then I have the I cling that all is well.
Spring 03 I NMR for some reason, but lose nothing. What I did lose was English
support and he wavered back and forth between me and the German for the next two
to three years, after the French stabbed him. ..I thought he was making poor
decisions and should just have stuck with one of us. After the French stab, I
went back one last time, and said let's clean up the German and you can go after
the French all you want without worrying about me. I believe if we had killed
the German when the one time we had the chance, the whole game would have been
very different. I had a feeling he waiver again to the German, so I hit him in
Scandinavia. Which I took ,but lost Denmark. This ended up being my downfall in
the north. The German had life, and now I had enemies out of both the German
and English.

With no headway to be made in the Balkans, the Italian slowly
moved an army all the way to Galicia. The German was now pushing me back as a CT
kinda formed. It all was looking hopeless for me, the only thing that was a
saving grace was the French at the time, and a good relationship with the Turk,
if nothing else but because he needed me. The Austrian and Italian only wanted
him(turkey) dead, but could not get at him with me around. France was taking it
to England which was no longer a worry, and utilizing some of the German
resources. Thank god. As the French grew, the Turk and I kept telling everyone
to watch out. No one listened. He grew from 4 SC to 10 quickly and finally the
German realized it may be too late for him. I made some good guesses on defense
in my home territory and got the Italian army to disband. R/T had a solid
southern defense now.

With the southern defenses firm, the only issue was my
northern flank. England was down to owning Scandinavia and had finally started
working with me again, as the French only want him dead and the German had
turned a few years ago. The German knew he couldn't get to my north flank,
without destroying the English. It took two years, and did I ever need the
time. As the German relentlessly pushed my way, paying little attention to the
French the English finally fold and I think all may be lost. This entire time I
send the German little notes about the French and he should wake up. Also during
this time, the Austrian reaches out to me for the first time in about 6 years.
With my prospects fading, as the German got to my north flank and won't turn to
meet the French, Austria offers the promise of some growth, if I turn on the
Turk. With skepticism, I contemplate the deal, and think It may be my last shot
at surviving. The deal turned out to be a ruse, but not too much was lost. The
bad part was, I needed to go back to the Turk and explain my indiscretions. So I
put my foot in my mouth and apologized, and offered an SC for being bad, and
the Turk begrudgingly accepted my offer, most likely because we were kinda
symbiotic at that point. He needed me, and I knew it.

Finally the German ,
just as I was exposed to him, knows the French have a solo shot, and he has to
face them. The center of the board opens and I take back Warsaw. The Austrian
folds , and we're at 5. The German is getting gobbled up by the French and reach
out the the Turk and I, trying to find a way to be in the draw, and with no love
loss on my part, because he perpetually lied to me all game, we said no, but not
in as few words . He says he's throwing to solo to the French but has really
nothing to offer. With the German dying, he reaches out to me, and asked if I
thought the possibility of a 2 way we're in the works. The Turk and French did
not seem to be able to share a word together without disagreeing. But I brought
it up to the Turk, who said "are you kidding""not with that asshat".

We build the stalemate line, the Italian who was stabbed by the Austrian, holes up
in his home SC and waits on the French to arrive. The Turk and I form the
northern half. Knowing the Turk and French don't get along , I have some very
pleasant conversations with France. He wants the draw to be as small as
possible. How can we do this. We go over a half a dozen scenarios. I know who he
is for many different reasons and I let him talk and listen. But try to offer
some plausible ideas. I also tell him point blank this is the Turks show, I can
only advise, which did not sit well with the French. But with no working
relationship with the Turk, I was all he had, and I knew it. I was willing to
Listen, but I could not make final decisions, is what I told France which was
good from my stand point. I could have done whatever I wanted, just wasn't
telling him that.

The stale mate line formed and the German finally dead, I
hear from the German again, and again, he asks what I think the possibility is
of a 2 way draw. I dismiss him, but I have to consider it, and again I bring it
up to the Turk. Little response. So what's my play. If there are two people
here who could possibly figure it out, it's France and turkey, but they can't
stand each other. There it is, play it up. The stale mate line lasted for 5
years and the French would not draw. Was he playing for a mis order, would he
make the concessions that the Turk wanted to kill the Italian. I did not want
that, why? If they found a way to work together to kill the Italian , most
likely I would be next, and then they would get their two way. So, I figure I
need to keep the animosity between them. I know the French think I'm coming
unglued, but it's part of my plan for survival. I did what some might think I do
best. I took little potshots at the French each turn in global. "That's all you
got?" " Wowsers batman, that's it?" Each time I did this, the French were more
and more unnerved and responded in kind in global himself, further ostracizing
himself from the Turk. This might work.I needed the french to not like me, and i think i got to him. After animosity grew and two other player requested the mods step in and end this, finally draw in 1920
There were some tense moments in this game, and some nasty words were exchanged, but now that it is over, i have tremendous respect for ALL involved, and hope down the road we can play this one again

sent wrong draft as that isnt proof read, sorry...noticed a few auto corrects

Haha, that's awesome ssorenn. I love the play at the end with France, makes total sense now.

its all i had

This outcome looks surprisingly familiar to the October GR challenge one haha

Turkey EOG

So I joined this game having not played for ~3 months (and really never planning on playing ever again, or at least not for the foreseeable future) by VI’s request. I was only really still checking webdip for mafia, actually. I decided to join because it was a game with a lot of decently well ranked players, almost none of whom I had played with before. I think this is relatively important as it frames the way I was thinking coming into the game, namely that I was looking to keep things simple. This also has been how I’ve been playing the last year or two generally. I’m really not at all interested in the manipulation side of the game, and I have always thought that constantly switching alliances shows a lack of control over what’s happening, not some genius strategic insight- what interests me now is sort of the puzzle of constructing a stable alliance that one can run effectively start to finish (ideally with a late game stab for the solo, of course). I find that pretty satisfying. I flipped Turkey as my country, which sort of locked in this approach to the game. Namely, I was pretty sure I could spend the first year or so of the game creating havoc/ a situation in the game that ensured success, and then ride it out with my ally from there, whoever it was. I would have much preferred Austria or Italy in a vacuum, but as it turned out in this game, it was Russia for reasons that will be discussed below.

Spring 1901

My messages to all 6 powers were actionable ideas and thoughts and I was looking for eager and willing allies out of these messages, as I think especially as Turkey it’s in my interest to suck air out of the game and decrease the amount of bullshit flowing around. There are obviously a lot of ways to ‘frame’ the game, but I think this is one of the more useful ones- G/A/I and to some extent F and R try to put off and put off and put off any decisions and keep as many balls in the air as possible until they get a strong position from which they can show their hand. Basically the idea being that G/A/I and to some extent F and R have fundamentally more to offer potential allies, but the sooner they are forced to make the decision of whom to help, the sooner E and T can get the direction of the game more clear and so E and T’s geographic advantage wins out.

Anyway, my first replys come pouring in, and Russia and England are ready to jump right in and discuss our mutual benefit, while France is very actively and blatantly (in my opinion) putting off saying anything of worth and is instead focused on building a rapport based on nothing. I have no interest in this, so although it wasn’t my original idea in either of my posts to Italy or England, I get right on trying to get E and I to attack France. Specifically, I start stressing to all three of his neighbors that he is a flatterer and a bullshitter. I know this is somewhat extreme, but at least in my experience of the game, it did turn out to be true. I also tell Germany and Italy that England sounds serious about attacking France, even though honestly at that point I think England was more considering his options rather than driving for such a thing. Anyway, it seems to work and get everyone interested and moving on France.

I get my first message from Austria around this time, and he is the second power to send me a message that basically says “yeah, let’s do it” then agrees to do nothing except have us think of each other as potential long term allies for the future. I have no problem (to a point) to saying no, you don’t want to commit to a spring 1901 alliance, but he’s very clearly and blatantly trying to ‘keep me on a string’, so I am immediately pretty confident that Austria is the kind of player who is going to try to have everyone on the board think he is their ally all at once. Shortly after Germany tells me that he thinks the attack on France is going to happen, but he wants me to tip France off. This is kind of a bummer, as it means that even though I surely am not going to tip him off, someone else surely will. I reply to him asking him if he knows who told France that I had been talking trash to him (although I hadn’t heard this)- basically what I meant was “I’m not going to gossip, and I don’t want you to gossip either.” I also soon after get near simultaneous messages from Russia and Austria that say they heard I am going to attack one with the other- I decide to go with radical honesty and tell each of them exactly the state of my negotiations with the powers in the east. It seemed like this won me a lot of brownie points with Russia, and Austria still wanted to keep his options open, so I was good there as well.

Autumn 1901

Moves flipped pretty much as I wanted, with the exception of the bounce in Galicia (I was hoping to see Russia make it in breaking a DMZ). Strangely, Austria claimed that it was a mutual stab and Russia claimed that it was an arranged bounce. Obviously, I believed Russia and was only more confident that Austria would be a bad ally (small things like it being increasingly clear that Austria leaked the 3 way stab to France, England seemingly having a sudden interest in helping Austria out, etc reinforced this idea). Maybe Russia was lying- Austria stuck to his claim that it was a mutual stab to his grave, but I just couldn’t understand why Russia, after promising me that he was going to stab into Galicia, would tell me it was an arranged bounce if it wasn’t true. My other focus this turn was to get England to convoy into Brest.

Later in the turn, I hear that Germany has told Austria that I asked him to bounce Russia in Sweden. This is pretty disappointing, as I felt like I was pretty clear that I wanted him to keep that information between us and he wasn’t able to do that.

However, it seems like by the end of the turn everyone is convinced that Austria is spewing a bunch of nonsense and plans to continue their attack on France, so everything is good. Russia and I start talking specifics about moves going forward. Austria says he will support me to Rumania next year if I bounce Russia out of Rumania this turn (again, he wants me to make the first move), but that he wants to support himself to Greece this turn as he doesn’t trust me yet. I say, fine, I’m going to move to Greece this turn then and then we can take Rumania next year, which he kind of freaks out about- he probably wasn’t originally planning on supporting himself to Greece, or at least thinks if I’m moving there that’s a signal that Italy is moving to Trieste. I reassure him that Italy is not going to Trieste, which I really did think.

1902

Italy does go to Trieste, which puts me in super hot water with Austria. I know he will never believe me that I didn’t know Italy was going there, but it was true. England does convoy to Brest, though, so I figure that I’m in good shape. This is where my (relative) lack of messaging started to kick in a bit- in particular, I was focused on reconciling the east, so I didn’t do a good job keeping E/G on France’s throat. I thought for sure England would push his massive advantage against France- the reason why Hey Bresto! usually has England take Brest with a fleet is because taking it with an army is an overwhelmingly powerful position. It was absurd and clearly the worst decision of the game for England to not push his advantage.

Meanwhile, France is starting to whine both to me and in global that he is already eliminated from the game. Obviously these messages are a waste of my time, but more importantly I just hate the notion of whining as a strategy. I knew he didn’t actually think he was dead, and I was pretty sure he knew I knew that (maybe not) so I told him that whining about having no chance was pathetic, because it is. I was hoping that if I kept not engaging with his attempts at emotional manipulation he would eventually send me context. He really, really didn’t like being called pathetic, though, and started combing through my game history, etc. trying to find a way to insult me. Not a big deal.

Spring was interesting- England, Italy, and Russia were staying on message that Austria was crazy, paranoid, and grasping at straws. Austria meanwhile was claiming that everyone was telling him that I knew about/ was bragging about getting Italy to move to Trieste. I stuck to the truth that this was not the case. I’m curious if he was actually hearing this or if he was just making it up- I would guess that latter but who knows.

The Spring flip was very disappointing- England pulled back from France and seemed to think he has made some brilliant move, his message to me was something like “you can’t do that with armies!” referring to my messages asking him why he built two fleets. Russia misordered (I told Italy I was confident he “misordered”, but I actually do think it was a real misorder, Russia?), and Italy pulled back from France. The good news is that Italy is still seemingly with me, and Russia’s misorder has had the effect of making Italy more comfortable working with me while keeping my relationship with Russia still fairly strong. I also look to keep my options open with Austria- if I become convinced Russia really did “misorder” and/or Italy’s abandonment of France portends an attack on me I want this option- but the idea I propose to him (supporting Budapest to Rumania) he immediately misreads as Serbia to Rumania, which I would never suggest as it’s an obviously bad move. Instead, I was suggesting a set of moves that guaranteed I couldn’t get any centers from lying to him, and he still didn’t even seem to consider it. This made me even more confident he would never work with me in a meaningful sense, only out of self-preservation. He also was the second player (after France) to call out my username as if knowing who I was was some trump card. This still confuses me.

Anyway, Russia supports me into Serbia and Italy takes Greece with an army and moves Naples to Apulia, which are both things I had asked him not to do. This is disappointing, as I really did want to work with Italy (and kept wanting to the whole game!) At this point, Russia and I have an amazing position for a Jugg, so that’s pretty much my plan going forward, and so I basically tell Italy as much, saying I plan to take Greece in the coming year. I didn’t think it was going to affect his builds or moves this coming turn, and I was going to build a fleet that would freak him out anyway, so I figured if I told him, it would help us maintain trust. I also had played the whole game effectively without telling a single lie, and I wanted to keep that run going.

1903

Austria sends Russia a copy paste of our entire message history, apparently, which I think actually helps Russia’s and my relationship- it makes it clear that Austria is a horrible ally and everything in the messages lines up with what I have been telling him (or at least, this was the case as long as Austria didn’t doctor stuff, I never confirmed that). I’m feeling super solid with Russia at this point. I reach out to France to try to mend some fences, and I push Russia to go take Scandinavia while it’s literally wide open. Not sure why he didn’t go that direction. Anyway, despite that, all was well and setting up nicely- the truth of the matter is that Russia not taking Scandinavia was probably actually better for me, just not him. Anyway, Russia misses the turn, which is absolutely devastating. If we get Budapest there, A/I crumbles and R/T rolls and I think I would have had a great shot at soloing. Instead, with the misorder, Italy has just gotten an extra turn to get position, and the position gets much more stalemate-y.

I arrange a bounce in Rumania with Russia to completely cut off any chance he could have of stabbing me. Russia is pretty confident Italy is going to Vienna, so we really should have just had Rumania support Galicia to Budapest and get the sure build, but we tried to get cute and guessed wrong. The Jugg is 0/2 so far.

1904-1907

During this time my already limited time on the site was further limited by the mafia game, so my messaging (and so my results) suffered.

I’m still pitching E/I on the “losing to the jugg is inevitable, embrace the darkness” pitch, which I think is still a strong argument for both powers. They needed to find corners, or the game was going to end F/R/T (which it effectively did, it’s crazy we didn’t knock out I). They aren’t really having it, though, and it’s certainly at least partially because I wasn’t putting in the time to convince them. The next few years I simply didn’t put in the time to messaging to get the results I wanted, so basically I’m just happy sitting and letting the jugg run its course. At this point we were somewhat stalemated but in the 50/50 if we are right we make progress if we are wrong nothing happens kind of way.

Italy seems to ultimately decide he wants to just try to hold on and try to get a 4 way draw with France at 17 centers (which he got, so there you go). I have no idea what England was thinking at any point here, though, essentially ceding London and Holland to France. It was truly baffling. All of France’s units are moving north and he is givng France free centers? I think maybe he was hoping France would eventually go south, he was certainly asking me to push for that, but I was being very explicit in telling him that I wasn’t even pushing for that, so he must have known France was going to keep attacking him. Germany also decides to head east, which turns France from a clear and natural third in a 3 way draw type situation into a genuine solo threat by the end of 1904.

For this reason I’m a little more eager to cut a deal with Italy, so in spring I move to disband his fleet in East Med and move in the fall to keep Aegean empty to put him at ease. Meanwhile, Germany keeps moving east, which isn’t a real threat to Russia’s safety as long as I stuck with him. He says that if he falls he will throw to me anyway. I’m not convinced this is true, but I decide to stick with him because at this point I have absolutely no faith in England and Germany to not just shit away their centers to France, so I see Germany and English centers as effectively French. I also need Russia’s unit in Galicia if I am ever to make progress going north/west and also still think that my best path to a solo opportunity is finally convincing Italy (or at least some subset of England and Germany) to turn around and fight for their own survival against France. This is also around when Austria and Russia had their big blow up in global, so I was pretty sure that he actually would at least make sure I got Rumania and Sev if he started falling for real.

Unfortunately, Italy punishes me for giving him space by going to Albania in Spring 1906. It doesn’t really matter, it’s just that my hopes of soloing are rapidly disappearing. Basically nothing happens for the next few turns. My main focus is on trying to get Germany to work with England against France, not the opposite, but I probably do a poor job at this. Ah well. Good job VI I guess.

I feel like the rest of the game was super boring. Basically I was safe the entire time and making slow and steady progress but at the same time guessing wrong over and over. Then Russia decided to make a crappy stab of me and give Austria legs. Obviously, I defended against it, and he seemed pretty indebted to me, gave me Rumania, at which point I could knock out Austria myself. Austria got another inexplicable concession, this time from Germany, letting him into Berlin. I was again flabbergasted, but good for him I guess. (I think the reason why we never worked together, Sh@dow, is because I was only willing to give you singles, and you wanted home runs. You almost got the home run a couple times, so it’s hard to say you were wrong to try, but to be clear, each near home run you got was clearly bad for the person who was working with you. You were always fiercely self interested.) Austria was actively trying to convince everyone to throw to France, though, and France already effectively had 16 centers (not Berlin) plus it seemed increasingly likely that Italy would throw Tunis to France as leverage (especially because he wasn’t willing to let me into Ionian Sea so we could actually have a stalemate that included Tunis), so that wasn’t great, so the easiest solution was to just knock Austria out ASAP. In the 1910/1911 portion, Italy misordered twice in a row- I would guess that the first was intentional and the second was not, but who knows- it made some sense as it made France closer to soloing and ensured he couldn’t be taken out without France pulling back. Italy also decided to let Austria into Venice, which I think was a bad decision, end stop. This decision was the first time I actually thought France might solo, so I had to play into Austria’s ego a bit and get him to disband Adriatic Sea. It was smooth sailing knocking him out after that (although at that point I wasn’t pushing it as Germany and Italy for some reason continued to be saying that we needed him- I was resigned to letting him temporarily be in the draw to be knocked out once France pulled back- but then Italy asked for support to Venice in 1912 and we were good to go.

The only remaining hurdle was getting Germany’s unit in Baltic Sea on our side. I didn’t really expect this to be a problem, and it wasn’t really. I pitched him a way that he would ultimately end up in Berlin that was feasible, but I was pretty confident that he didn’t think it was going to happen, and was ok with that. Russia suggested that we just let Germany know that he was out of the draw once we got Berlin and I did because I didn’t think he would throw to France in search of a 0 center survive, but apparently I was wrong, so he did throw. I really stupidly didn’t go to Warsaw in Autumn 1913, so we gave F/G one extra shot at it, although not really, as the moves we chose that Spring guaranteed that we could get Germany back into Berlin if necessary.

Now the only remaining question was draw size. I wasn’t going to give Italy any reason to throw the game, especially as he had been effectively throwing it the whole game. In my mind, there was no reason for me to discuss specifics with France about how to effectively eliminate Italy. It was trivial- pull back and it is easy to eliminate Italy. For some reason, he wasn’t willing to do this, so after a truly miserable 6 years, he finally voted for the draw. I maintain this game should have been at least a 3 way and probably a 2 way, but for whatever reason VI didn’t want to make that happen.

AUSTRIA EOG

Only 1901 and 1902 in here. And it is bloody long. I literally went through all my press line by line again to construct this EOG and its taken a hell of a lot of time to do it – so I hope someone actually reads it :P
1902 – end will be much shorter and will be up soon.

Before I start – I was literally heartbroken at the end, but I thoroughly enjoyed getting outclassed in this game. I thought it was a fantastic bloody game – there were twists and turns throughout from some damned good players, and the fact that all countries were alive in 1910 should be testament to something.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPRING 1901

The usual introductions all around. Strong opening message from Turkey – it’s a very good opening message, and right from that opening message that he sends me – I know he is a strong player. I need to be cautious. His opening message asks for Greece – which sets off alarm bells in my head (Greece, Munich are the 2 most importance SCs for me). I tell him that Greece is non-negotiable in my first response and have a feeling he might be a strong player and is just trying to fool me. I am now a little wary of Turkey and tell him that I cannot commit to him before I see evidence of RT conflict.
Great opening with Germany as well – he tells me – “my personal preference is to go in guns blazing as Austria. I think the whole board is much more fun if Austria can get to 6 centers fairly quickly :)” This 1 line made me confident that he really had my best interests at heart and understood the importance of GA (something I believe very strongly in and have commented about on the forums before)

Italy opens with a direct offer of Lepanto – perfect. We discuss a Key for a bit but settle on classic Lepanto. Works for me since I am wary of Turkey. Italy also wants a CPA with Germany – even better. We are having good conversation and I feel good about my relationship with him.
France is the only country who expresses an interest in working behind the scenes with me – that is my preferred style of play – and I take an instant liking to the guy, thinking he will be good to work with.

Russia – I open with what I believe to be a fairly good opening message :P I throw in history about the Crimean War, talk about strolling in the streets of Vienna, praise his fine strategic mind, and openly declare my love for the A-R alliance. But hey – the day ticks by and zero response from Russia. Like NO response. I am worried and I start talking to the other players – and they all confirm that they have spoken to Russia extensively over the last 24 hours. So Russia has exclusively chosen to not even send a single message my way – This is annoying and bloody disappointing. So much for a high quality game.
I ask Germany to help get Russia to talk to me atleast. Germany gets to work and Russia finally responds – his response is curt, short and hardly addresses my opening questions. Germany also tells me that Russia is definitely opening 3 units south. Oh dear!!

Meanwhile, I have confirmation all around that there will be a 3-way on France. This is not something I want – Stack is right that I have expressed this before on the forum. Why?
A) As a pretty much hard and fast rule, I subscribe to balance of power theory – No matter who I play, I do not want the first elimination to be someone away from me. It changes the balance of power completely in that sphere. My golden rule in Diplomacy is that the first player eliminated should be a player that I help eliminate and the change in the balance of power must be in my favour atleast somewhat.
If France is eliminated early in a 3-way, that is not in my interests.
B) I want France of medium strength in mid game to help devour a still not too strong Italy
C) I like France and think I will work well with him behind the scenes – don’t want to give up on that.
I try to convince England NOT to open to the Channel. England responds –“ Interesting. I've never been lobbied to not attack France from Austria before.” This might have been a big mistake. It essentially confirms to England later that I was the one who leaked intel to France.

Meanwhile, England tells me that Russia is ‘worried about me’ – I am nonplussed. I have tried extensively to court Russia – first he pointedly refuses to engage with me at all for an entire day and then sends a curt reply and now he is ‘worried’? What the hell? England suggests that Turkey is feeding things in Russia’s ear. I do not find this difficult to believe given my own conversations with RT – and I am 100% confident that a Jugg is developing. I don’t think I have ever been this confident of a Jugg in 1901. I ask Russia what on earth is going on – first he doesn’t even talk to me, then he is worried about me?

Russia sends me a message – “I have it from more than 1 source that your preferred ally might not be me, but turkey. As I hope this is not true, hearing from 2 sources lends it some credence.”
Wow. This Russia is really something. I respond at length. “You think my preferred ally is Turkey before I have even spoken to you? And before you have responded to my page long messages trying to establish trust and friendliness? I have tried to make it as simple and clear as I possibly can that I am extremely interested in a strong alliance with you - but you are now coming off as being extremely cold to that idea. I don't think I have ever made this much of a concerted attempt at gaining someone's friendship and been rebuffed so much. Not just have you not even talked about Galicia, you haven't even declared interest in an alliance even once. What is going on Russia?”

Relations with Russia are not good – we agree on a bounce at bare minimum. There is finally a little bit of conversation and discussion between us late in the phase. Must focus on silver linings. Lets hope something better develops in Autumn.


Meanwhile, Turkey admits that he didn’t like me requesting him to attack Russia before committing to him – and so he has approached Russia regarding an alliance. Ah well – The Jugg is out in the open then and I have begun 1901 with bad relations with both Russia and Turkey. Well, atleast the CPA is in place. Or is it??

France tells me a bounce is being organized in piedmont. I am shocked – I thought this was a 3-way on France. This seems like a plan by Italy to act like is DMZing Venice without DMZing it really and then stabbing me in Autumn. I shoot off a message to Italy but he does not respond before the phase ends.
Wow. This is going to be a long EOG. Will anyone read it?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTUMN 1901

I am shocked that Italy tried to sell me a move to Piedmont while actually arranging a bounce in Piedmont. Apparently he asked for the bounce – There is no sense in italy asking for a bounce and pretending otherwise other than to hoodwink Austria. I tell Italy straight up that this entire thing is a smokescreen to attack me – conversations with France seem to confirm this. Italy does not respond much and I promise him that I will be covering Trieste.
England seems to know that I was the leak to France. I shouldn’t have tried to convince E not to move to EC. Also, God knows why France is making it so apparent to everyone that he got leaked intel from me. I still don’t understand how it was in France’s interests to sell me out in this way. I was a valuable source of intel – what was the point of outing me and screwing me over in 1901 itself?

It appears that France leaked to Italy that I leaked intel to him in Spring 1901 itself. Ah, so that’s why the bounce happened!! Anyway, this was the nail in my coffin. Turning Point 1: This single act by France screwed the entire game for me by ensuring Italian hostility towards me. My trying to have talked England out of it was also the other reason for this. I ended up saving France and killing myself with that 1 intel leak. Congrats, Austria.

I keep plugging away at Russia refusing to give up. Russia and I are talking a bit now. We agree to sell our bounce in Galicia as a broken DMZ. 1 hour later, everyone knows it was a bounce!!! Meahwhile, he tells me that Black Sea was a broken DMZ whereas in reality it was an arranged bounce!!! Haha. Man, this Russian really hates me. I don’t understand how or why? Meanwhile, G confirms to me that “Russia has chosen an ally.” Well then…

The Jugg is screaming out. I am fucked because it is clear that Italy will stab me in Trieste. I get Germany to bounce Sweden. He agrees. I try to talk Italy out of Trieste and warn him I will cover it – but I can’t because I will obviously need to cover Galicia. Turkey refuses to not bounce me in Greece. Its Jugg vs Austria and I hope Italy has the sense to not take Trieste. I hard sell the Jugg to him. But no – Boom. I lose Trieste and my downfall begins. Meanwhile, Russia has resumed his vow of silence and is just ignoring my messages altogether. By now, he has ignored me for most of Spring 1901, lied about Galicia, lied about Black Sea, tried to get Italy to stab me in Trieste and confirmed to the world he is Jugging with Turkey – and refuses to even talk to me.

I refuse to give up and try to talk to Russia again. I tell him I know that he tried to get Italy to move on Trieste. Big mistake.Turning Point 2: Russia promptly conveys this to Italy - Italy gets angry that I revealed this to Russia and this probably seals his decision to attack Trieste. From his point of view, I leaked intel to France and approached Russia with information that I got from him – I don’t consider the 2nd act to be a leak – it was me desperately trying to find out wtf was up with Russia in this game. But anyway I desperately apologise to italy – fruitlessly. My fate is sealed cos he seems angry and is willing to ignore the Jugg.

Turning Point 3: Not going back to Turkey on bended knee and offering him loyal service. His arrogance was irritating me and in hindsight, he perhaps had a point that I was refusing to commit to him without him taking the first site. Things like insisting on bouncing Greece didn’t do anything to endear him to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPRING 1902

I am stabbed. Italy sends a cold apology. Its clear that Turkey insisted on bouncing Greece and Russia insisted on bouncing Galicia so that I had no option but to gamble on Trieste. Talk about starting off as a fucking clusterfuck. My message to Germany sums it up: “Your Central Alliance partner made a brilliant decision. The best part is that I expected it, warned him not to because a Juggernaut was developing, and he still stabbed me. I had to protect Galicia and Greece as priorities to prevent the Jug gaining a foothold so I took the risk and paid for it”
I blow up on Italy and tell him that it was a ridiculous decision to stab me given how obvious the Jugg was. That I knew that he was going to stab me – but had no choice but to leave Trieste open to try and counter the Jugg. I threaten him that I will take him down with me unless he comes around to working with me against the obvious Jugg. Italy accepts that he made a strategic blunder but obviously doesn’t take kindly to my aggressive threats.

Thank God Ger bounced Sweden. I am hard selling the Jugg to him and focusing on getting him to attack Russia. He seems to agree.
I am sending Italy my best possible pitch. I send him a huge 8 point message outlining the sequence of events and how obviously there is a Jugg steamrolling. He NEEDS to work with me – I am willing to forgive and forget.

Russia tells me that he is not a fan of the AR and I was his mark from the beginning. Wow. He has entered this game pre-decided not to work with Austria. Suddenly, his refusal to even talk to me in Spring 1901 and much of Aut 1902 makes sense. I am beyond shocked – but I have no choice but to accept it. I continue to make efforts to get him to work with me as I am in a terrible position. I talk a lot and he acts as if he is listening. I am in a terrible position so I am trying whatever attempts I can to work with both Turkey and Russia.

I am also focusing on Germany and trying to help in the North and in return, get his help in convincing Italy to back off. I have stopped threatening Italy and am discussing cooperation with him in great great detail. He starts responding well, says he recognises the fear of the Jugg and says he wants to work with me.
France tells me his relationship with T is deteriorating – and that Turkey was bragging about getting Italy to stab Trieste. Not surprising. I tell this to Italy - further proof of nefarious Jugg intentions. But Italy and I are arguing over whether he leaves Trieste or not despite us agreeing over the Jugg. He doesn’t seem ready to leave Trieste. I cannot accept that. He has also built in Venice to protect Trieste which also pissed me off. Italy expects me to give up Trieste to him and move east completely. In hindsight, Perhaps I was being too aggressive with him, but he was hardly being compromising here in the face of huge odds – that too after a stab.

Germany is helping me a LOT with italy – I love the guy. But I am unable to use his mediating role well. Maybe because I was too aggressive with italy – but Italy was not being reasonable either – I had nothing to trust him for and he was refusing to cooperate on tactics. Atleast Germany is going to attack Russia which is good and will reduce some heat on me.

Meanwhile Turkey and my hostility continues since France told me that Turkey is boasting about tricking Italy into stabbing Trieste.
Russia seems to know every word I tell Italy. This is fucking pissing off – Here I am discussing cooperation with Italy after he has stabbed me despite an obvious Jugg and he is still relaying every word I say to Russia. How on earth can I trust him?? I have to try and retake Trieste. No other option.
Negotiations with italy are breaking down. He says he will move to Albania and will not give it up. So much for fighting the Jugg. And he wants me to trust him to not attack me further while he is threatening to move to Albania and also leaking everything to Russia. I tell him that I am definitely attacking Trieste then..

Extensive Diplomacy with Russia despite such a horrible 1901 might be working. If Italy will be so hostile and Turkey so arrogant, maybe I need to focus on turning Russia. I start sending essays to him. It may work according to what he is saying. I am doing everything I can to send Geramany towards Russia and scaring Russia about Germany and using that as leverage to gain his friendship. We agree to DMZ Galicia so that I don’t waste a unit bouncing it. He is actually scared about Ger now – so this may work.
We discuss what to do with Turkey but decide that it is best to wait till Autumn to strike Turkey since the Greece fleet needs to bounce Aegean in Spring. Any attack on Turkey must happen in Autumn. How to pull this off?? I come up with a plan where Russia supports Bud-Ser and claims to Turkey that it was a misorder for Bul-Serbia. It is kinda believable if he sells it right and might hoodwink Turkey. He agrees and seems desperate to DMZ Galicia. Yes, some relief at last!!!

I am also trying to help Germany diplomatically with E, F etc a lot. I feel indebted to him for trying to help with my peace talks with Italy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTUMN 1902:

Phew. I finally had an okish Spring 1902. Nothing In Galicia. It is DMZd. Russia carried through with a fake misorder support also!! I was counting on Italy just holding Trieste in place but he moved to Albania which upsets calculations a bit. Atleast, I blocked him in Trieste just as I predicted – I am now in a position to force Trieste and might even get Bulgaria if Russia carries through. This is going to be a delicate phase now.

Italy realizes I played a decent move and that he cannot hold Trieste anymore even if he wants to. His aggressiveness is gone and he wants to compromise now (all a ploy) I still don’t trust him because not just did he move Tri-Alb, he also tried to move ven-Tri, Pied-Venice – ie all out attack on Austria. What a snake :P

Meanwhile, shocking changes in the East. Somehow, somehow France turned England. Bad move by England I think. Russia has attacked Germany and Ger attacked France – my ally is in trouble and I am guilty cos I pushed Russia towards Germany :( I am going to do whatever I can to help him. I get as much intel as I can from ER and feed Germany everything. I also start hectic negotiations with France to try and convince him to work with Germany and help Germany out. Over time, I get confident that G and my combined diplomacy will work and not result in too much losses.

Uclabb comes to me with an offer that I let him into Aegean. Lol. Nice try. Anyway, Italy wants to cooperate since he knows that he cannot hold Trieste anymore. Maybe he is genuine. Worth the risk?? Phew. I am thankful and focus on how to cooperate against the Jugg. I remind him again and again of RT’s indiscretions and feel a little confident that he has realized his errors.
Meanwhile, I am trying to keep Russia on my side for the interim. We make a plan to start a fake fight on Global chat and complain to other players about each other, pretend to mute each other etc. to keep people guessing. The plan is to tell Turkey that Rum S Bud-Ser was obviously a misorder for Rum S Bul-Ser. We need this in order to keep Turkey thinking that Russia is on his side and set up for an Autumn move. This helps keeps up the misorder ruse and also helps engineer a fake fight. I was also enjoying making plans with Russia about the fake fight. At this point, I was *really enjoying this* and the fact that I was *enjoying* it so much made me stupid. I had never done a fake mute and fake fight on global before. We were also coupling it with the fake misorder and it was just fun. It became all about the fun and I forgot about the game amidst all the fun. Plus, Italy seemed to be coming around to my side :) Unfortunately, Russia was telling Turkey everything all this while so I was basically being played.


Sudden hitches – Russia goes cold again. He;s not contributing to the fake fight much and seems super aloof. He’s gone and made some vague statements about me lying about Italy. I don’t know what’s going on – but there isn’t time now to change plans. Perhaps, I could and should have gone back to Turkey here. But Turkey had lied multiple times already and had just attacked Serbia, was refusing to take my support into Rum, and wanted Aegean which was preposterous. Meanwhile, Italy seemed on board and I was too busy having fun with fake fighting Russia and was just so excited about getting the move to work. I hoped that Russian coldness was just his style of play. It was blindingly obvious though that a stab was coming. He was not talking again, not setting up the fake fight, making vague statements about me lying to Italy or something etc. There were also enough indications from Turkey that Russia was leaking everything to Turkey again. All the warning signs were there. But no –this fake fight had turned my head. I reassure Russia and tell him: “Please stop worrying. Enjoy fake abusing me, have some fun, and lets do this.” I also had warning from Turkey that Italy was attacking Greece. But I was too caught up by dreams of executing fake fights and getting back both Trieste and Bulgaria. I had every possible warning sign and Turkey gave me all the intel. Turning Point 4: Should have allied with Turkey at this stage and thrown myself at him.

Autumn 1902 was probably my worst single season in Diplomacy EVER with horrible moves that I made despite having advance intel of everything. It was just poor play because of being blinded by the ‘fun’ element. I am down to 2 units now and will spend 10 years after this fighting haaaard and turtling around desperately. Russia has sold me out despite me making every possible effort to work with him all game. And I made all those efforts despite him being cold and lying to me all game and hardly talking. God knows – perhaps this was in his real interest. Russia and me this time genuinely blow up in global and we never talk again. And Italy has lied to me 3 times in a row and stabbed me again in the face of an obvious Jugg. I still maintain that this was poor play by Italy and I told him so many times.

Riveting, can't wait for the next episode!

Wow, my head is spinning over the early years in the east. I knew I wasn't following what had happened during the game but I had no idea it was this intricate. Makes England playing me seem downright ordinary.

AUSTRIA EOG PART TWO


I have briefly runt through all the EOGs once now, and will need to read them in detail again, but I wish to address some of Turkey’s points before I continue my own EOG

Turkey claims I was an unreliable ally – but consider this – other than leaking intel to France once, I was never unreliable at all. I worked extensively with Germany all game in all honesty, and he was my only real ally. Italy, who was also my other ally – I never leaked anything important he ever said to me to either of Turkey or Russia. I was actually the perfect ally to Italy with the exception of the French leak. And most of those who have played with me including others in this game know that I am a reliable ally as well – upto end of mid game, when the stabs usually happen.

In the east, there was so much backstabbing going on – it was crazy. Italy was leaking every word I said to Russia. Russia was leaking every word I said to Turkey. Turkey told me everything Italy and Russia said to him and those are the only intel leaks that I know of - I’m sure there was more of it going on. In fact, Turkey leaking all intel from Russia and Italy to me actually made me think the same thing – that he was a highly unreliable ally to have. But then, everyone seemed so unreliable – it wasn’t like I had much of a choice.

I was in a desperate position with Italy having attacked me for the French leak and continuing to attack me 3 times in a row, Russia pre-game deciding to want to eliminate Austria and not even talking to me, and Turkey taking advantage of the situation because his geographic position gave him the security that I lacked. Was I paranoid? Yes. But who wouldn’t be paranoid as Austria in a game where Italy has stabbed, Russia is basically AWOL and Turkey is trying to squeeze you for all your worth and has been shady. Did I use every dirty trick possible to get RT to fight each other? Duh I did – I was in a desperate place and I did what every self-respecting Diplomacy player should do – do anything necessary to fight for your life. None of it has anything to do with me being an unreliable ally because RT refused to ally with me all game. Even for a brief few hours where I incorrectly thought that Russia was working with me, I was loyal to him and 100% reliable – definitely never breathed a word to Italy or Turkey and the two of them will attest to that.

This game would have been very different with a different Russia who did not have some sort of antipathy towards allying with Austria. Just think about Autumn 1902 and the move that I was excited about. I honestly think the fake misorder was a really good diplomatic ploy – and I know that Turkey was kinda buying it before Russia sold it out. The plan was for me to take Bulgaria and Russia to move to Armenia while Italy Lepantoed. Had it worked – and it really might have worked with a different Russia – it would have been a masterstroke and benefited all 3 of us. And this game would have been different. Unfortunately, my diplomacy failed – but my eagerness to pull off the fake misorder, fake fight move explains why I failed to heed all the warning signs and intel from turkey and align with Turkey instead. At one point – I messaged Italy saying that Turkey has told me you are taking Greece but I am not going to attack you cos I am a loyal ally. He went ahead and took Greece anyway :)
That said, while it was partly my substandard play (also Turkish refusal to move to Rum, not bounce Greece, not move to Aegean etc) that prevented me from aligning with Turkey, I think Turkey made a few poor choices after that – and I will explain why. As for uclabb claiming to having played without lying so far (till 1902), I have no clue who you are kidding? Your attack on Serbia in Spring 1902 wasn’t a lie? What a joke.

This reminds me of another intel leak - because this did influence me to some extent – did France lie about Turkey boasting about getting Italy to stab Trieste? Christ – there are too many lies and leaks in this game to keep track of? Also, if that was a lie – why? You just wanted to avoid me allying with T?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPRING 1903

France was on my side and equally shocked that Italy had attacked me once again in the face of this Jugg. Turkey built ANOTHER fleet but Italy was still determined to go on against me.
France had also helped Germany by striking England and all 3 of us were focusing diplomatic efforts on getting England to panic about Russia and take Russia on – which worked.

Russia got back to me and claimed that apparently I had told Italy about our fake misorder plan. This is patently rubbish. It would make no sense for me to tell Italy about a super secret plan I had come up with that had nothing to do with Italy. I still have no clue if this was more Russian bullshit or another layer of subterfuge by italy/Turkey. There were way too many layers of lying and wheeling dealing going on to keep track of.

Russia misordered in Spring but it was irrelevant. I had gone running back to Turkey with tail between my legs and told him that I was selling myself to him. He promised to help me out if I tapped Rum, Gal to save Bud and would support me into Trieste in the fall after taking Greece. I accepted it without hesitation.
When I realized R was NMRing, I changed my orders last minute to try and steal Trieste. But anyway – that entire turn nothing much happened or could have happened.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTUMN 1904

Finally Italy comes around after 3 long and hard years. He wants me to help attack Turkey finally! I tell him I am not interested in talking to him unless he hands over Trieste to me. France is also doing some lobbying on my behalf apparently. I am also trying to get Turkey to work with me. I am charged up and am determined to recover from 2 centers. I shall fight to the death and recover from this, come hell or high water. Come on, lets turn this around! Depends who offers me a better deal –Turkey or Italy.

England suggested that there was some plan to get Italy to attack France. This is the last thing I wanted as TR would just gobble me up then. So I was also doing behind the scenes work to prevent this scenario from materializing – you’re welcome (again) France :P

My proposal to Turkey is to give me Serbia in exchange for support into Rumania. Long-term I was ready to support him into the entirety of Italy as long as I just got back Trieste. Turkey refused to give up Serbia – but the telling point was that he said that he would have to confer with Russia first. I was like wtf – what is the point of us working together unless you stab Russia – you want me to just wear Italy down so that then you and Russia can take both of us apart together. How does that make any sense? This is what was really irritating about Turkey and this persisted for 10 long years.

Slowly and slowly, Italy and I talk a lot, lots of apologizing and forgiving etc etc on both sides. Ok – There is a chance here and what Italy offers me is better than what Turkey offers me. I know Turkey only offers me a crumb to take it back 2 years later – whereas I actually have a shot at long term survival with Italy. Game on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1905 ONWARDS:

Standard Strategy:
1) Continue encouraging England to attack Russia in Scandinavia.
2) Encourage F-G peace.
3) Ensure Germany also attacks Russia and creates more destroys.
4) Hold the line with Italy and keep communicating regularly.
5) And send Italy’s spare army north to help Germany against Russia.
6) And keep sending messages to Turkey every day to desperately try and find ways and means of cooperation
7) Italy was also trying to trick Russia into stabbing Turkey a couple of times – apparently, some of those efforts almost worked – but I am not too sure.

It was pretty much this constant now for many years in a row – the only difference being England seemed to hate France and committed suicide. That kinda sucked because I didn’t want France growing too fast either – the moment England collapsed he would stab Italy/Germany – and both IG were crucial for my survival –since they were the ones fighting RT. Luckily, Germany did well to slow England’s demise down – France’s misorder helped too :)

Turning Point 1: Autumn 1906. We had the upper hand and could have forced a Turkish/Russian center. But God damn it – we guessed wrong – and RT pulled off a brilliant defensive move that phase to deny us that crucial build and destroy.
Turning Point 2: Spring 1907 – I was still wary of an Italian stab and didn’t fill Galicia when Italy went to Ukraine. Mistake in Hindsight :/


Btw, me taking Trieste in Autumn 1907 wasn’t really that much of a stab. Italy and I had discussed it before and he agreed to me taking it back sometime – only the timing was of my choice.
He was initially pissed but later accepted my arguments and destroyed Venice also – me not taking the opportunity to stab him in 1908 in Venice resulted in Italy sending me some very drunken love texts :P


MAJOR TURNING POINT 3: Spring 1908 – Fatal set of moves by GI – the destruction of Ukraine instead of the destruction of a Russian center. Oh my god. What a huge blow that was and what a stupid way for the three of us to lose it. What was the reason? Lack of effective communication I think for that phase. We had a chance in Autumn 1906 and we blew it. And then we blew Spring 1908 again. From this point on, especially with France growing too big, It was going to go downhill.


Turning Point 4: I missed a crucial opportunity to knock Serbia out in Spring 1908. I didn’t do it only to preserve the small chance to work with Turkey – clearly that was a stupid fucking mistake.

Another MAJOR Turning Point 5: Autumn 1908 – We had the chance to take Serbia for sure. But Italy went ahead and told Turkey that he was tapping Greece. I think this was a very bad move by Italy. After getting him to do everything that we both needed, I am really disappointed that we failed over something like this. Why would you do this Italy? Well, the answer is probably because you were also trying to find ways of T-I cooperation like I was, but leaking crucial intel?
So instead of getting a HUGE leg up with a destroyed Turkish army (meaning Turkey’s land presence and thus threat to me would be reduced to ONE solitary unit), we ended up giving Turkey a lifeline instead. Thanks to Italy’s intel leak, Turkey knew what was happening in advance and ended up forcing Albania instead, this giving him the chance to retake Serbia and move into Albania, Ionian.
Yet another mistake in the same year was not taking Rumania when I had the chance – I did this only to preserve some chance of RA cooperation since I messaging him right to the end to get him to stop– but a failed attempt again.


This was becoming tough especially with France so powerful and in a position to strike G/I anytime. I was talking to France at all times to get an insight into when he might attack Germany – at one point France figured this out and became more quiet :P Italy and I managed to destroy Adriatic in Spring. Having lost Serbia, Autumn 1909 was my final last ditch play – I re-contacted Russia and lied through my teeth non stop to get him to support me back into Serbia. The idea was to take both Warsaw and Serbia simultaneously. This was my last glorious play and atleast I got Russia to turn on Turkey eventually – but Turkey saw it coming (Fucking brilliant uclabb) and that was all over for me from there on.

All throughout this time, I kept messaging Turkey day in and day out. I think I made him several different types of fantastic offers but he was not interested in anything. I even took back Trieste as he requested – but he refused to live up to his end of the deal and stab Russia. Turkey basically wanted me to be his slave for a while – because he rejected every offer I made and some of them were very good offers. All he wanted was for me to attack Italy so that RT could advance even more. He seemed confident that R could not be pushed back – and I think he was wrong – RT got lucky with fuck ups in the turning points I mentioned above. Turkey and I had the same conversations and arguments 100 times. Every offer I made was met by: “No, Give this to me and give that to me and I will give you nothing. I want to keep you a tiny 2 center power and you must help me grow by taking all the centers – and once I am done, I shall swat you away.” It was quite ridiculous. Had Italy or Germany been a bit of a carebear towards the end, and they certainly worked explicitly against Turkey’s wishes and in my interest for the longest time – he would have been stuck with a huge draw.

Taking Trieste and Italy destroying Venice opened a small window of opportunity for RT cooperation again – but no – Turkey was only interested in a slave ally. Oh and he would go on and on about a French solo which was aeons away– which I couldn’t be bothered less about right now. It just all seemed very fake from Turkey.
Simple fact is that Turkey should have allied with me somewhere in between 1902 and 1909 just as I should have allied with him in 1902. He was cocky and arrogant and he gained *nothing* from it. He was on 6 units in 1902 and refused to work with me – and ended up with 6 units in 1908-09 as well – having gained nothing over 6-7 years of effort and almost lost quite a bit– in fact the RT survived only because of mistakes that Italy, Germany and I made. Instead, had he allied with me, he would have got faster builds and grown huge and probably eliminated me easily on his own later. Uclabb is no doubt a great player – but arrogance comes with being good at something sometimes – and he was too arrogant and stubbornly refused to admit that he could be wrong – so he stuck to his guns for 7 years fruitlessly and rode out the mistakes that we made.
He claims that I was the stubborn one and that I was negotiating from a position of strength rather than weakness – but all I was doing was asking for something in return instead of being asked to sit tight and wait to be eliminated.


As you can see though, there were many, many turning points: And unfortunately, all of them went in favour of RT. Lots of bad luck – and some great defensive moves by R&T too - I thought we played pretty well post 1902 and got unlucky at crucial junctures. Which was different from the poor play before 1902.

Anyway, from 1909 onwards, RT patched up despite my trying to capitalize on the Russian stab. I realized my game was up. Turkey was hell bent on my elimination and had been so since 1901, despite my efforts to the contrary literally every turn. Which meant my only route to a draw was by bringing France to the verge of a solo and sitting on the stalemate line. Turkey wasn’t bothered though – he knows his stalemate lines alright – and so I knew drastic action was required.
Germany and I were going to destroy Russia’s Prussia army and retake both Moscow and Warsaw next turn. It was a guaranteed move. Except France stabbed Germany and Germany backed out at the last moment – thus ending that chance also (Thanks, France :P)


I was focusing all efforts on accelerating a French solo and getting GI to do so as well. The thought of getting eliminated or losing was too painful. I negotiated really really hard to get into Venice and Berlin with German and Italian consent. Both were on the stalemate line and I thought that maybe there was a small outside chance of getting a draw here :) But no –Italy betrayed me again but I didn’t mind since he gave me his reasons (I really did mind when he went silent for a year in the middle though around 1910) – Germany betrayed me in Berlin too – and I think that was the wrong play for him personally as it consigned him to the dustbin heap as well. I died after a long fight – and it was a truly gut wrenching exit after having put in so much effort into the game. I remember staring at the screen when I logged in and saw 0 centers :( Cest la vie.

Congrats to VI, uclabb, YHN and Ssorenn for the draw. Well played and well deserved – I think Stack kinda deserved it as well. It was a pleasure playing with you all this game – and as I said, I thoroughly enjoyed being outclassed by you’ll :)

@Sh@dow- Again, I didn't know about the move to Trieste, and I didn't lie to you about the move to Serbia in 1902. Here are all the relevant messages:

(To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1902: You are truly grasping at straws. I am interested in working with you, but not if you are going to be so erratic. Here is the message I sent Italy after last turn. You probably are going to assume it is edited or something, but I'll send it to you to give you a chance to say that you are satisfied and interested in working with me rather than literally making things up trying to drive me away from others.

Autumn, 1901: You kinda screwed me over with Austria, lol. I got into a decent sized argument this past turn where I told him that I was moving to Greece just to keep up appearances and because it wouldn't matter anyway since he should just support himself in. Now with you going to Trieste it really looks like I screwed him over.

(To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1902: Italy told me that you asked him to move to Trieste. And someone else independently told me that you gloated to people about getting Italy to move on Trieste.
I am not grasping at straws. I am telling you that I am aware of your conversations. And that the allys you think you can trust are obviously talking behind your back. When you truly desire to work with me - let me know.
I am willing to support you into Rumania in Autumn after I retake Trieste in Spring.
Let me know if you are interested.

(To: Austria, from you) - Spring, 1902: You have very little credibility with others on the board. If what you are saying is true, prove it

(To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1902: I do? Haha ok - if you say so. They are either lying to me or to you. We shall see.
Interesting to had no answer to the rest of my message. But that was expected.
Anyway, I told you - I will do so this Autumn and prove it. But your hostility and coldness is doing nothing to advance this relationship.

(To: You, from Austria) - Spring, 1902: I would support you in Spring - I have no objection it since I can hold Serbia if I feel it needed while supporting you also - if only I was convinced of your friendship.

So *there* is Spring 1902. I pretty clearly make no promise about Serbia. If anything, we each are being pretty clear that we don't trust each other.

Now for Autumn 1902:

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I'm prepared to work with you- however, if I hear from even one other power that I have told you this, I'm out.

(To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: I wanted to work with you. I wanted to support you into Rumania.
Instead you tried to take Serbia and got Italy to move to Albania? Clever. I didn't see that coming.
Anyway, such is the game - not like I didn't expect you to try exactly what you did..
I am still willing to offer you Rumania. But I obviously can't tell you what I will do with any other unit other than Serbia. I will either move to Galicia or try to retake Trieste whichever I judge to have a greater chance of success.
Also - my support for you into Rumania is 100% on - but that is conditional on Smyrna not moving to Aegean. That is non-negotiable for the moment.
And I would like *some* any intel on Italian intentions cos that is troubling me - feed me scraps.

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: I didn't pretend like I was going to do anything other than what I did.

I want to get into Aegean Sea, and I want you to let me succeed. However, I am happy to support you into Rumania- I don't need it, at least short term.

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: And again, did I know Italy was going to Albania? Yes. Did I "get" Italy to move there? No. Completely his idea. Please stop acting like I am some evil mastermind. I'm playing in a very straightforward way, and I'm waiting for one of you, Italy, and Russia to realize it and actually start working with me.

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: The moves I am imagining are Bulgaria, Black Sea support Budapest to Rumania, Serbia support hold Greece, Smyrna to Aegean Sea

(To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: Lol. Listen Uclabb, I am not playing Diplomacy for the first time in my life right?
Move Serbia to Rumania it seems. Hahahaha. I am holding Serbia very firmly in place to stop your attack :)
Stop wasting my time with rubbish. If you have anything serious to me, say it. Otherwise - Good night

(To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: Oh you meant Budapest-Rumania. I thought you said Serbia to Rumania.
Sorry, my bad. Misread it.
That does make sense - but no - I politely refuse - Aegean is not acceptable. I said that was a non negotiable.

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: A couple things:

1. Yeah, I'm uclabb, I would say I in no way am trying to hide it. You sort of said it like it was something to hold over me or something- my game history reflects the style of play I have been using and promising to use in this game.

2. I have no plan to ever waste your time with rubbish. I think that is supremely insulting (as do you, it seems). I won't make you an offer unless I think you should take it, especially in a game like this with so much gossiping.

3. There are 3 relevant outcomes, based on whether you take my offer and whether I follow through. Let's explore those:

-You cooperate and I cooperate. You are guaranteed to end this turn with all of your current four centers as well as Rumania, leaving Budapest open for a build, which will allow you to guarantee the recapture of Trieste next year.
- You cooperate and I defect. You are moving Budapest to Rumania. That means you are still cutting a potential support from Rumania of Bulgaria to Serbia. Thus, the only reason for me to lie about this is if I want you to allow me to support Russia into Serbia. Surely you can see that is not the case given that Russia screwed me over last turn.
- We both defect/don't come to an agreement. With no leverage on Russia, I most likely would accept Russian support to Serbia, leaving Italy to either use Albania to defend Trieste or take Greece. You can't defend all three, and so you would end this turn at best with 4 centers and with a good chance of ending with 3, especially if you tried to bounce me out of Aegean again.

What am I missing? Working with me is clearly your best option.

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: So instead of responding you are going to go leak what I was talking to you about to Russia? I don't understand why you refuse to make allies.

(To: You, from Austria) - Autumn, 1902: I have no problem being allies with you. But even you will admit that you have been lying to me most of the time. You have been allied with Italy mostly and with Russia to a certain extent also. You just attacked me now as well so there is very little trust and for me, trust is the basis of my relationships. It has further been brought to my attention now that Russia made the Bul-Bud mistake so its clear the two of you are working together.

Now, I am very clear on Aegean so I need a commitment from you that you will not move there.

I am also offering you support to Rumania so I cannot understand why you do not take it. The fact that you are refusing support but offering me makes me suspicious. I also want to see you attack Russia. You haven’t made any threatening moves towards him at all.

I will be staying in Serbia this year – and supporting you to Rumania. I want to work with you, I’ve always said that – and I’ve actually meant it - but I need to see you take some steps. More so now, since there is no trust.

Also - I can guarantee you I haven't leaked ANYTHING to Russia

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: Maybe I'll read back, but my feeling is that I haven't lied to you once. Have I been speaking in a friendly manner to all three eastern powers? Yeah, of course. But I don't think I have lied to you. I don't think I've lied to anyone (maybe France, actually). I genuinely didn't know that Italy was going to Trieste that turn.

I don't understand why you would support me to Rumania when you instead can and probably should support Greece's hold. It's just hard for me to figure out why that is in your interest. So, instead, I proposed something that was strictly better for you to try to get us to a point where I could feel confident that you would actually make the moves you are promising.

I simply don't understand your hang up about Aegean Sea, *especially* since you don't even care to defend Greece in the first place, apparently. Can you explain?

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: In fact, given the option between you keeping Greece and me getting Rumania, I would much prefer that you keep Greece, especially if you would stop moving to Aegean Sea. I am very seriously afraid of the pending I/R

(To: Austria, from you) - Autumn, 1902: So I need to go to sleep, and it seems to me that we have not come to an agreement. I'm going to go to Serbia again.

I assume you are going to support Serbia's hold. That's ok. I just wanted to point out one other option. With me going to Serbia, you lose Greece if Italy goes for it- in other words, you have no control over that. Your choice this turn is whether you want to end the turn with Trieste or Serbia. I think in pretty much every way it is better for you to have Trieste than Serbia- it gives you all of your home centers, it changes Italy's "shape" from being anti-Austria to being more like a Lepanto, it makes it so that I have 3 units on Rumania and thus am more likely to attack Russia, and so on.

Your call.

*******

So there you go. Where did I lie about Serbia? If anything, I was too honest about it. I don't get how you can say that I was both leaking you information left and right yet not trying to ally with you. The proposal I sent you above was by far the best deal you had all game, and I was going to do it, as I had 0 trust in Russia at that moment. But you had no interest. How Aegean Sea can be a deal breaker is beyond me.

Nice write up shadow. While it's true that you were my mark from the beginning. The fake miso was your idea, it was never meant as an olive branch from me, it was meant to let the Italian firm up his position so we could continue your demise. My NMR ruined that but that was the plan. At least how I remember it. Maybe Italy can lend some thought here?

Sh@dow, thanks for going through and recovering all the details about 1905 and 1906. I left that out of my EOG and had forgotten about how many missed opportunities and bad "guesses" there were :(

In retrospect, maybe I needed to take a different tone with uclabb. He was worried about a French solo, and if there had been Russian disbands in 1906, I think it's quite possible I could have beaten France to the punch. I don't know what it would have taken to convince him to attack Russia during those years though.

Don't specifically recall if i lied about Turkey boasting about the Trieste thing or not but i suspect i may. Best memory serves me was that he was gloating about pushing for the three person attack on me so in my sharing of that information i may have added a little lie at the end to help in creating a bond between us as well as spread general animosity and mistrust towards Turkey.

uclabb, I don't think you have read my entire EOG because at no point did I say that you weren't trying to ally with me - I admit in about 5 different places that I made an error of judgement and should have allied with you in 1902 - at the time though, different things made it difficult for me to trust you - as I'm sure it did for you. I admit my mistakes in not allying with you in 1902 and also argue that you should have allied with me after 1902.
Aegean was and would be a dealbreaker right now also - move to EM if you want to ally with Austria, why Aegean?

ssorenn - yes, I know that it was my idea - when did I suggest otherwise? I was faced with a Russia who openly told me he had no interest in either talking to me or working with me from the beginning for no fault of my own - so the misorder and fight thing was an innovative way for me to try and get Russia interested in and excited about working with me. I know now that you were just acting all along obviously - but at the time, I got caught up in the moment and I got excited because I thought it was a pretty great and exciting ploy and was itching to see it happen - so I was playing just on hope.
I still maintain that it was a good plan had you followed through.

VI - I think that lie made quite a difference. I believed it because I saw no reason for France to lie about this. Usually, I will disregard such info - but when it came from you, I took it at face value because it was backed up by what Italy said AND I couldn't see how France benefited. Its difficult to isolate causal factors, but I'm sure it made a difference and further reduced any chance of AT collaboration.

Stack - had you got Turkey to stab Russia around 1905 when France wasn't that big a threat, I have a feeling it would have really thrown things awry - it would have massively benefited Germany and given him the builds to really slow France down and make it a more fierce contest all over.

What I'm saying shadow, is that as fun as it was to do that, my game was never to ally with you, I needed italy to get position back, so we could attack you. I was trying to buy time, so wintergreen could catch on. It was fun though.

I had a plan with England around 04 that would have put germany out of game. And he didn't follw though. Those, English , never can really count on them.