I feel like I have De Ja Vu, hasn't this exact (word for word) post been made before

If there is a search function for old posts, I am unable to find it. Point me to it Santa? Or do I have to wait until Dec 25? I should tell you though, it's unlikely I'm on the "nice" list.

What is the point of a life without words because surely that is the only way in the whole world that people can communicate ..... without words we are all doomed, do you hear me, doomed I say!!

Sometimes when I am driving I communicate simply with one finger. They seem to get the message.

We've had a staggering number of repetitive diplomacy-related threads lately. I'm sure the "let's turn webdip into vdip" types are pleased.

whuts vip it looks better then this site cuz it has mor varients

Gunboat is beneficial to those who do not have the time to check webdip every few hours. It is faster to attend to each game every day, letting someone play 10-20 games at a time without too much trouble. Attending to press in every game would be too much.

Gunboat also requires strategy. One can argue that it requires more strategy than with press because you must think about the aspects of every move, and potential consequences. It can also be argued that gunboat takes out the fun and the art of sweet talking is lost. It is ultimately the players choice. I personally play GB because of time restraints, but also because I feel that GB embraces the technical and strategical aspect of diplomacy a lot more than press.

As for whether or mot there are stabs, there are absolutely stabs. There is an art to forming alliances in GB in addition to the art of reading the board well. Combining these allow you to predict moves and stabs, and let you analyze a situation. Since alliances can be formed, stabs can be done as well.

Part of diplomacy is lying to get what you want. With gunboat you don't have to waste time reading the lies and discerning the truth while waiting to get stabbed.

GB appeals to those faint-hearted folk who don't like to lie to other people's faces (or computer screens), who aren't good at manipulating people or who are so scared of being manipulated that they would rather turn the game into a purely tactical affair.

I know some will say that you can communicate in GB through supports, random holds, etc. But even so, that sort of communication is more basically tactical, and obviously allows for almost none of the intrigue, savvy, rhetoric, rage, etc., that make the game of Diplomacy so fun and unique.

"With gunboat you don't have to waste time reading the lies and discerning the truth while waiting to get stabbed."

QFT

@Sulram To each their own. Yes, gunboat doesn't have the diversity of text one can send with press. But in gunboat all moves are significant and rarely "random", even if it is just a hold. These moves that make it a "purely tactical affair" are the method of communication. Despite being limited, it is still a complex method of communication and is not just a one dimensional "tactical" code.

gunboat has a much much lower threshold of time commitment, which is fantastic for those with busy schedules and the primary appeal for me these days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0AKJMGxwpE

So what I'm hearing, aside from the disappointingly transparent sarcasm, is that GB is just another facet of communication in this game. Some may call it a "complex method of communication and is [sic] not just a one dimensional [sic] tactical code [" omitted intentionally].

So forgive me, aside from the speed of the game and the allowances therein providing the opportunity to play many (10-20, I got the joke) games simultaneously, what is the appeal? Are those playing GB so far on the spectrum that they are unable to communicate with others? Did they get vaccinated as children (OMG, they're sooooo autistic!)?

If you don't want to read the lies and discern the truth, play chess. Am I wrong?!

I generally find GB games pretty ridiculous. Sure there's certain strategy to it, but some countries success just rely too heavily on their ability to talk (Austria being one). It's just far too much of a luck of the draw. Based on my research, majority of the time when you see an Austrian or even German solo it's more then likely also coupled with a surrender or a handful or NMR's from neighbouring countries. Yes sure, you need to have a good understanding of the board and know some decent manoeuvres to make things happen but when i've asked the best in the past about what good strategy is in GB games the best advice i've gotten to date is "be Turkey". If there's more to these games, i've certainly yet to discover it.

Sorry, just saw the "busy schedules" response. So all of the time options, including 7 days, isn't enough time for you to enter orders? Therefore you eschew discussion?

Why do people play gunboats: threadID=1092941

See posts by rokakoma in that thread

"Are those playing GB so far on the spectrum that they are unable to communicate with others? Did they get vaccinated as children (OMG, they're sooooo autistic!)? "

Wow, you're a real peach of a human being, aren't you?

@villageidiot (since OP is clearly not trying to grasp what people are saying)
Yes the luck of the draw plays a much bigger part in gunboat than it does in full press. But there are many things about gunboat that are extremely intriguing, if you don't like it there is no reason to through off on it. Something about having very little idea about what sort of players you are up against and what there intentions are can really add another element to the game. As the game goes on you can start to analyze what sort of players your opponents and allies are, and since this discovery goes on for the whole game you really have to make the right choices on when to stab and when to take it slowly if you want to solo or get a draw.

No it isn't the same as press, but just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you have to fear it ;)

Yeah Putin I've read your threads. I relish the irony of you questioning my humanity.

While a joke I find your comment on autism rather jackass'ish. If you act like a jackass here expect to be treated like one by the other members.

Seth, thanks, aside from the insinuation of a lack of grasp on my part (a little insulting), I now understand more about GB. I didn't "through off" on it, I asked about it. I'm actually eager to learn. Thanks also to jmo for the link, very helpful.

This is where I come in. Where do you need me boss?

No problem OB_Gyn glad I was able to help any at all, once you read Rokakoma's posts you will probably understand those better than anything I could write.

@seth24c
Guess i still don't get that, and based on my experience the notion of alliances are a lot more loose then they would be in a game where you end up talking to people. Basically you push every opportunity, there's no reason to feel any kind of connection to anybody and it's just stab-and-grab. There's really no analysis of players at all (from my limited experience and research) it's really just an anything goes kinda deal.

If you don't want to know who you're dealing with to add a new challenge, well there's anonymous games to give you that.

By all means i'm more then happy to be sold on the appeal of it if it exists, i just haven't found it yet. What's the secret sauce to be good at gunboat?

So, first off, the autism comments were in poor taste. Yes, I have poor taste. Apologies, mea culpa. Everyone's shocked. The whole origin of my question is from my first game of World Diplomacy IX. I was assigned a power, I am playing it, and I am at war with one country and allied with 2 others. I've had NO contact with any of these players. It feels very much like I am playing alone. The richness of the game is simply lost. Again, it's like a chess game. Is this not what GB is? Do people like it more than FP games? Why?

@VI absolutely the alliances are much looser, so you have to be very careful to make sure that it is not in the interest of the other person to stab you. For instance, in a game me and card were in not very long ago; he was a ~10 center France and had just supported me to Norway and taken the north sea, now even though he had helped me that turn, I knew positively that he would attack me the next season. As a 6 center Germany (with a 6 center Russia and ~10 center Italy) I had two options, fight him as long as possible and hope that Italy would become a solo threat in time to turn him around from me, or try to dive into Russia to make france the solo threat and hope that I could force my way into the stalemate line. The choice I made relied completely on how I analyzed the play of both card, Italy and Russia. I judged that Italy would get through Russia before card could beat me, so I fought him as best I could for a few years then Italy dove into marsielles and spain, fulfilling my expectations and putting him at 17 units before we managed to set up a successful stalemate. I will post the gameid momentarily.

gameID=146952

Also correction on what I said right there, Russia was actually the bigger power at 11 or so centers in the phase I mentioned. But he was clearly not the solo threat so it was necessary to have a complete understanding of the board (obviously doesn't only apply to gunboat) to make the best choice on how to get a draw without being able to sell yourself out to the highest as you can in full press. Really gunboat and full press are different animals, you can't expect them to be the same as far as the moves or the way people look at them. They are different but unless you are, or find people who have played a significant amount (and been fairly successful) of both it's going to be nearly impossible to explain the nuances of each with respect to each other.

Hey VI and ob_gyn, want to play a game of gunboat with me? I'm tired of VI stopping all my solos in press, so maybe I'll have more luck in gunboat.

Considering my record in gb, I'll probably be first out though :-)