Non-israeli Jews supporting Israel (obiwan and me, although I will admit my support for Israel is definitely being tested as of late) definitely feel a connection to Israel and particularly Israel as a Jewish State. I have a relative who survived the Holocaust and passed away 5 years ago. I have a first cousin who moved to Israel 20 years ago to make her life there. Many Jews around the world have such a direct connection to Israel without living there. The concept of a Jewish State has more or less been ingrained in us as the only way to ensure that persecuted Jews all over the world have a welcoming place they can call home. Given the insane amount of anti-Jewish, anti-Israel rhetoric in the region, it becomes easy to assume Israel is always on the brink of destruction and needs to proactively protect itself to ensure its survival.

Non-Jews who unilaterally support Israel do so in such a way, I would guess, primarily stemming from a hate for Palestinian culture that they are convinced breeds terrorists, and consequently view Israel as the beacon of light that can repel the evil that is a Palestinian culture of terrorists. But I don't have the perspective to speak on that too well. I personally know that the majority of Palestinians are NOT terrorists, and when reading about the events in Gaza recently, it's definitely hard to see that many Israelis really do unilaterally hate Palestinians, and consequently, all the efforts of the IDF to minimize civilian casualties are counteracted by the angry Israeli soldier staring down his sights in Gaza with a shoot-first mentality.

The staunchest supporters on both sides of this conflict are the ones that are blinded by either nationalistic feelings for the side they support, or irrational hatred and fear for the side they are against. Now more than ever, I question those who unilaterally support Israel just as much as those who unilaterally support the cause of the Palestinian people. There is too much hate and pride running around in regards to this conflict that it really becomes difficult to have honest discussions when the staunchest advocates on either side are also the most prideful and hateful.

One element that I've heard referenced elsewhere is that, in America, there may be a significant number of evangelical Christians who support Israel because they believe doing so sets the stage for the end times. I don't know to what extent that affects or has affected U.S. policy (especially our outsized military contributions), but I thought I'd toss it out there as another aspect of the topic.

I think Americans identify strongly with the Israeli situation because, at least in theory, it parallels our own history to a certain degree. That and the Palestinians being Muslim probably leads to the rousing Israeli support you find in most of the US.

I'm not sure what parallels there would be. The creation of Israel seems pretty singular in history to me. What do you mean?

+1 y2

I think it's mostly a manner of the friend/enemy mentality some governments and news networks can have. Israel is friend, Arabs is enemy. Add confusion over what Israel is, and you have the situation. The Bible goes a fair bit towards justifying stuff like this too.

@ FRM: Israel, like America, is part of the western society that Hamas wants to destroy.

As what FRM said, plus it's largely an American creation that worked, democratically speaking. There aren't a lot of those for bragging rights.

Is it really that much of an American creation though?

Not at all, phil. In the beginning, it was mostly a British cluster fuck, but like with all their other colonies, the locals routed them and kicked them out.

The idea existed before, the land wasn't American.

Until Israel sort of threatened to use nuclear weapons, the USA didn't really know whether they liked Egypt or Israel, just like the SSSR.

You can support Israel and not be a Zionist.
And you can despise Hamas and not be pro-Israel.

Fact is, that the United States has almost as many Jews as Israel does. There are many cultural, economic, and historical ties between the two nations. It's not surprising there is a fair bit of support built up over decades and generations.

More to the point: What Christian nation could the general population of the United States support in the Middle East? That's right. None exists.

Not everything has to do with just religion. Support for Israel stemming from the United States has been common for some time, especially so for Reagan's fans. (I would say for Ford and Carter as well, but they don't have any fans...) Reagan's support stemmed from the idea that Iran was housing terrorism and that the word for terrorist is "Muslim person." Jews in general hated Reagan, just as they did Bush, because of his idiotic social and economic policy that seriously went against Jewish value, which basically supports kindness toward the poor in the same ways that Christianity does (that's one of the values that the early Christians took directly from Judaism). Most Jews I know vote on that value, which makes it ironic that Jews vote Democrat when Democrats vote against Israel. So, as it stands, enemies become friends when it comes to Israel - Jewish people tend to support their homeland, hardline Republicans tend to support one of the United States' largest economic allies.

Y2K is exactly right in saying that anyone that unilaterally supports Palestine is just as out of their mind as anyone that unilaterally supports Israel. I partially disagree in his assessment of IDF soldiers, though. I firmly believe that the rampant "Israeli soldier shoots Palestinian kid" story is media hyperbole, and where my opinion on Israel has rapidly gone downhill in the last few years, this is the one thing that's held firm. Not to say it doesn't happen because it clearly does, but if we actually gave a damn when a kid died, this story would be in the papers every day, only with varying nationalities, and it'd be front page news every time. There was a story some time ago about a Palestinian reporter's kid getting killed and the picture of the father holding his dead son and crying circulated through the media, and a few weeks later it came out that it was actually a failed Palestinian rocket that went 100 feet in the air and then plunged that actually killed the kid. It wasn't Israel at all. The media blows every little thing Israel does out of proportion.

I say this with a little bit of reservation because I feel the exact same way about soldiers of the United States. Combat troops are not monstrous people, nor are they necessarily people attached to violence. They're incredibly brave, incredibly nationalistic (but they channel it in a good way), and ready to sacrifice themselves for either their country or in the case of some of our soldiers, the good of the world. There are pictures of IDF soldiers playing with Palestinian kids, interacting with them, doing all the right things, just as there are pictures of American soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq being kind people and helping out when it's wanted. Doesn't mean they're all perfect, but it's not like ours are either.

I'm probably going to get shit for saying that, but if you really want to deny that the media screws with your perception of the world on a daily basis, bite me.

To answer the OP as best as I can, undying support for Israel isn't necessarily unwarranted. It's just like how the far-right and far-left proposals in everyday politics aren't unwarranted. In a perfect world that works exactly the way they say, both far-left and far-right would work. That doesn't mean they're acceptable, though, and it doesn't mean that supporting them is going to get anyone anything nice. That same support for Palestine also isn't unwarranted, but the extreme views, particularly in the United States, arguably one of the most centrist countries in the world, make us all look bad, and hatred of everyone that doesn't fall into the same category makes it worse. While the people who can't be swayed from their anti-Israel or anti-Palestine views aren't unwarranted in their opinions, they're operating under the assumption that, for example, if Palestine were wiped out, Israel would be better off (whereas in reality they'd only have the whole world to fight), or if Israel were wiped out, the Palestinian people would be the next progressive, innovative country (whereas they'd still be ruled by Hamas and they'd become another Al-Qaeda hotbed like Syria), and they absolutely despise anyone that doesn't completely agree with them which makes their opinions moot on the world stage in my mind.

Hopefully some of that makes sense.

@Jeff Kuta: I don't understand, though, how the ties between the two nations have built to the extent that they have, particularly from a U.S. foreign policy standpoint. There are, of course, cultural ties. Judaism, quite some time ago, was a necessary precursor of Christianity and informed many of its beliefs. As of 2008, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that about 76% of Americans identified themselves as Christians, and around 1.1% identified themselves as Jewish. With respect to American Jews, their fraction of the electorate isn't high enough, on its own, to be expected to significantly sway national policy. And as for the Christians, I have no evidence but I would be surprised if the Jewish roots of early Christianity and/or modern Israel's relationship to pre-Christian Judaism are things they think about very often, particularly in the voting booth. And yet our government, through red and blue, sends some $3 billion dollars annually in military aid to Israel, and with as little debate or fanfare as reauthorizing funding for our own military or Social Security. (Less!)

Economic ties? Aside from the aforementioned, one-way flow of ~$3 billion in military aid, what do these ties consist of? I tried to look it up and, well, I just have to post a quote, because it's not something I could rephrase with a straight face:

"Bilateral Economic Relations

The United States is Israel's largest single trading partner. The top five U.S. exports to Israel are: diamonds, machinery, agricultural products, aircraft, and optic and medical instruments. The top five U.S. imports from Israel are: diamonds, pharmaceutical products, machinery, optic and medical instruments, and agricultural products. U.S. direct investment in Israel is primarily in the manufacturing sector, as is Israeli investment in the United States." --U.S. Dept. of State (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3581.htm)

I'm not an expert, but that list raises more questions for me than it answers. Finally, as for historical ties, it appears that, prior to Resolution 181 in 1947, American policy was to favor a single-state solution that wouldn't have much resembled the current Israel.

Are there other aspects of these ties that might better explain our policy and the largely pro-Israel tone of American conversation?

@bo_sox48: Is it ironic for American Jews to vote for Democrats? If they, in fact, support Israel but also support liberal social policies, it might be reasonable to assume they just value the latter over the former when they vote.

Otherwise, thanks for chiming in. Some good insights all around.

First things first, what questions does that list raise? Tel Aviv is the diamond capital of the world, alongside South Africa (can you say irony?). They are technologically advanced, in some ways more than the US, so pharma and medical exports make a lot of sense, they have a pretty large agricultural sector that exports all around the world, particularly things like dates and pomegranates that only grow in other typically hostile Middle Eastern nations, and our machinery comes from all over. Israel is a technologically advanced nation that doesn't do a ton of business with China or India, so they're manufacturing needs come from us too in return, they need more agriculture than their desert nation has, everyone imports US aircraft, and we apparently trade medical equipment and diamonds for whatever reason.

Regarding historical US policy, everything changed under FDR and the wars. Anything before that time period is basically off the books when it comes to diplomacy. Reagan engaged Israel's support because he was against Iran, and as we all know, the enemy of our enemy is our friend, and now that we're attempting to engage in friendly conversation with Iran again, support for Israel is starting to dip a bit. If Russia ends up controlling Syrian policy, I imagine political support for Israel will go up again, but no one, at least no Democrat, can come out in support of Israel right now.

It's extremely ironic for American Jews to support Democrats because the only political thing we ever talk about around each other is Israel. You'd think that that would preoccupy us at the polls too, but it doesn't. Social policy, though, dictates.

Probably because, for better or worse, domestic policy is approximately one-half a world closer to most of them.

And when has our support for Israel ever waned, even slightly, even under Democratic presidencies, Democratic Congresses, or both? As I said, it seems to be one of the few absolutely untouchable policies.

They tried when they had a filibuster a few years ago but there was rarely enough support. Some Democrats have a stake in keeping Israel around too, and others buy into the hype. Obama was much freer in general in coming out in favor of the Palestinians, also because the Arab Spring was going on and the peace accords leaders will all being removed. Honestly, had these kinds of stories been coming out two years ago, things would be so much different right now.

The problem of non-jewish zombies was explored quite well in World War Z. This also answers the question of why non-jews choose to support the walled nation state--in the even of zombie apocalypse(s) the Jewish state may be a critical bulwark against total annihilation of the species. But of course, supporters of Israel assume, possibly very wrongly, that Israel will give a crap about all those Christians who supported them. They may not.

"What Christian nation could the general population of the United States support in the Middle East? That's right. None exists."

Actually some of the most ancient Christian communities in the world are in the Middle East. The United States has contributed to their annihilation by destroying Iraq and Syria. And there is a Christian community in Israel whom the United State doesn't care about either.

The OP raises a great question, my earlier support for Israel was based on a naive nostalgia for a bygone era, when Zionism and Soviet Marxism were closely linked. It also stemmed from the horrors of anti-Semitism in eastern Europe and the independence of Israeli foreign policy from NATO when it came to events in that region. But the events in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, transformed my view completely.

"I think Americans identify strongly with the Israeli situation because, at least in theory, it parallels our own history to a certain degree."

I couldnt help but think of Native Americans here.

Not everyone appreciates the Zombiist movement and it's role in the creation of modern Israel.

I find it curious how the word "Zionist" has taken such a negative connotation. Hell, it's taken a completely different meaning than it used to; whereas the original Zionists were pretty clearly part of a noble cause, a Zionist today isn't someone that strives to make the place we know as Israel a Jewish homeland, but someone that strives to eradicate all outside, non-Jewish influence in Israel. We've done the same thing with words like "jihadist" where the term at its roots is not anything like the implication is. I wish we'd found a different word for the Israeli and non-Israeli bigots that we now call Zionists, but it's just interesting to see how a few generations can change something that much.

"whereas the original Zionists were pretty clearly part of a noble cause"
Were they really?
Why did Hitler pick on Jews in particular, what is it about the Jewish religion that would make people hate them that much (ignore current situation, focus on historical Jewish behaviour)?
I have no idea but is there something peculiar to Judaism that would upset normal non-Jewish people?

Did you just ask that question, Nigee? Did you really just ask *that* question?

Go fuck yourself. Then take out a shovel, dig a six-foot deep hole, climb in, and take a nice long nap jackass.

Before I look at the above, I'll answer the question, for myself, anyway, since I'm probably one of the most vocal non-Israeli Zionists here...and I'm an atheist to boot, so there's all sorts of fun complications there--

So, my 6 Reasons (a number that seems appropriate) for being a Zionist, non-Israeli though I am:

1. I believe all people deserve a state or homeland...as much as I love multiculturalism, I think it's at its at its strongest when different, distinct nations lend culturally to one another while remaining distinct nationally. I'm thankful for British TV and literature, Italian opera, German, French, and Russian composers, Spanish wine, Indian teas, and so on...and I'm happy to see Jewish writers in Britain, and Jewish composers for those other European nations, and so on...but for all of that, I'd still want a definitively-Jewish homeland.

I think all cultures deserve that, which is one reason why I really do want a Palestinian state as well...I naturally want it on terms that are neutral or favorable to Israel, because I care about the Jewish homeland, but I do think all peoples deserve such a place.

2. As much as being Jewish in California in 2014 is probably one of the easiest and safest places and times to be Jewish in quite a few centuries...it's been "safe" for the Jews before in such a place. Detractors can decry the "paranoia" of Antisemitism as much as they like--when it happens as often and with as destructive results as has been the case over the last few centuries for the Jews...it's a fair fear to have. I want a Jewish homeland not just for the cultural reasons, but for the preservation and protection of the Jewish people--

There are around 16-20 million or so Jews left in the world. In a world of 7 or so billion...that's really not a lot...and 13-14 million of that number are divided between just two nations--Israel and the United States. Were the USA to suddenly not become safe (as has happened in "safe" areas before), or if the other near-third of that number in the Diaspora across Europe and the Middle East were to meet with mass persecutions, I'd want to know there wasn't just a safe haven for the Jews, but an ARMED safe haven...

A place that would fight to the last man and woman to protect the Jewish people from vanishing from the face of the Earth, since with 14-20 million, that IS a legitimate concern. The Holocaust cost 6 million...that's 1/3 of the current Jewish population right there...with 70-year old weaponry and means. I Shudder to think how efficiently the trains might have run in 2014 rather than 1944.

3. What's more, I'd like to think that if such a thing did happen, not only would Israel be a safe haven, but they might well try and fight to protect Jews in those other areas...what is the point of a Jewish state if we don't protect the Jewish people, there and abroad. If the smaller Jewish populations of Arabic countries were being systematically exterminated, I'd want Israel to step in and fight to free them...I'd want them to do the same if things, for instance, DID go so sour in Eastern Europe as to see that happen again...

That's in part why thousands of soldiers each year join the IDF from nations outside Israel--they're Jews signing up to fight for the survival of the Jewish people, because as important as serving one's own country is, serving one's people is equally important, and in a case such as this, those Lone Soldiers decided to heed the call.

4. That's just one example of the goodness I see in Israel, or rather, the potential for goodness--it DOES bring people within that scattered community together. People came from all over the Diaspora to sign up for the IDF, and two Americans gave their lives in this last war for that cause and for the Jewish people. But leaving that example aside, it's good to see a place that can be a unifying homeland for the Jews once more, across the globe, from LA to London to Latvia and back again. Right now, while a majority still naturally are pro-Israel, there are some Jews that don't approve of it...

I hope that as generations pass, and we eventually do get a two-state solution, and Israel reforms internally while the threats outside it subsist externally, Israel CAN be a homeland all Jews would be united in their care of and in that care for one another through it.

It isn't there yet. It still has a ways to go. But remember, as nations go, Israel's still a baby, just under 70 years old. Many Middle Eastern countries, Post-Colonialism, anyway, are rather young in terms of ruling themselves as opposed to being ruled by an empire. That whole region is going through growing pains...and hopefully, those pains and the pain it's inflicting will subside, and give us a good homeland for the Jews...and Palestinians...and disenfranchised Kurds...and son on and so forth.

5. I wouldn't be fully honest if I didn't say that part of my wanting and caring for a State of Israel is the fact that Israel feels like a cultural achievement--that is, I'm proud of the fact that, after 2,000 years of them saying and hoping and praying that one day they'd make it back, they not only made it back, but made it back and got their homeland back. That it came through war is regrettable, but the UN DID offer a partition plan...and the fact that Israel survived that war, surrounded and outnumbered, again feels like an accomplishment for the Jewish people, and a testament to their fortitude and ability to never give up. A lot of those citizens and soldiers were people from the camps--they had every reason to give up on this cause, every reason to say they'd been lucky enough to survive once, and to not fight for themselves once again...but they summoned up whatever it is that allows one to continue under such circumstances, and I AM proud of that resilience. I'm proud that Jews from America (my family included) and elsewhere wanted to help, and sent money and weapons...again, giving evidence that Israel CAN be the crucible in which unity and community amongst the Jewish people can be forged.

I hope it doesn't have to be forged in war in future generations, but for the generation that had to fight...I'm proud they had the courage to, and I'm proud of all the Jews who came before them and before me, who could have converted or given up, but didn't, because being Jewish, in whatever religious or cultural sense they thought of that identity, MEANT something to them.

Israel represents the culmination of that determination and courage and pride...and flawed though it is, and though it may make mistakes, it's still a source of pride that we survived this long and were able to win that many victories to get even this faintest chance.

Israel must now do better with that chance, but that doesn't mean my pride is diminished in thinking about how hard so many anonymous persecuted millions worked, both in those few years and in surviving the millenia, just to get that chance.

6. I've said before that I doubt I'll leave much of an impression on the world (few do, individually anyway) and that I don't really want kids, so the two things I want to survive and thrive more than any other things, the two things that I feel best capture me as a person and would therefore want to exist after me, as a superior representation of my brief "walking shadow" of an existence are Western Literature, Art, Music, History and Thought, from Shakespeare to Picasso to Mozart and so on, and the Jewish people.

There are many things I like about the Jewish people, enough for a whole other Obi-length post. And there are many things about it I quibble with, or even dislike--again, enough for another long post. But I think that's how most people are with their cultural background...there are times you like it or are proud of it, times you forget it, times it annoys you, but it's still played a big part in determining who you are, have been, and even who you will become.

So I'm sure most here could say they're proud of their culture's traditions--and simultaneously point to many, many traditions and laws they're not so proud of (I'm looking at you, Books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.)

And plenty could praise the attributes I've already praised for the Jews--resilience, an ability to adapt, determination, courage in the face of adversity, a sense of caring for one another, and the list goes on. I happen to be Jewish, both sides, going back generations, so that happens to be the culture I come here to praise rather than bury.

And as I never want to see it buried, I want a homeland for that culture and people, a crucible to forge all its best virtues in and, hopefully, maybe even burn away some of those past shortcomings.

There's something significant about calling Israel "the Jewish State." It isn't just a place where Jews are safe, like London, or prominent, like Los Angeles or New York or other places--it's a definitively "Jewish" State...and to lose that would be to lose what the Israeli national anthem refers to as "the hope of 2,000 years" (my translation's probably bad.)

Another thing I'm proud of the Jewish people for is that, for such a comparatively-small group, it makes a name for itself in most every field...

Whether it's Kafka, Philip Roth and Salinger (half-Jewish) in literature, Meyerbeer, Mendelssohn, Mahler and Gershwin in classical/jazz music, Billy Joel, Bob Dylan, and the countless other pop musicians of the last few decades, Albert Einstein and so many of the great physicists and scientists across the centuries, and so on and so on...heck, even Sandy Koufax and Hank Greenberg for baseball, something as comparatively-trivial as that--

So many fields, from acting, writing, music and the humanities to science, philosophy, politics, and more--I'm glad Jews make themselves heard.

I want them to continue to do so...not because they're better than anyone, but just because they're my group, the group I was raised born of, was raised in, and am today, atheistic though I am.

I'm proud of the achievements of all groups and men and women greater than myself, which are most--but at the very least, I can claim some satisfaction knowing one of those groups is a group I belong to, and some solace and happiness knowing that after I pass on, that group will continue, and will continue to produce those great men and women.

It isn't an overwhelming everyday force in my life...but just as I'd feel worthless at death if I knew Shakespeare or Mozart wouldn't survive for future generations, I'd feel disconsolate and destroyed to think that the Jewish people, the people to whom I owe my physical and a portion of my cultural and mental existence, would die off, or be killed off.

They've lasted this long .I hope they last much longer--

All things come to an end, but just as I wouldn't want to see Shakespeare meet his end in mass book burnings, I wouldn't want to see the Jewish people end in such a fire, either...and frankly, I think history has shown the Bard's safer from those flames than the Jews.

All people need protection, and all people deserve to see their cultures and cultural identities live after and grow beyond them...I hope Jews 500 years from now are secure enough and live in a peaceful enough coexistence with their Palestinian and European and American neighbors that they can look on these wars and my backing them and frown with scorn. Let them have that luxury from atop a secured perch.

But they can't perch without a tree of their own to grow and grow--or else their lives would be "As shaky as a Fiddler on the Roof!"--and I don't want to see another Jewish family tree burned or cut down because of a pogrom or revolution or genocide or whatever latest reason the world comes up with to massacre Jews...

The seeds are planted, so as flawed as its roots may be, I support Israel, support that aspect of Zionism, and want to see that tree grow and flourish--and outlive me for as long as the Bard...it was he who had Shylock say "For sufferance is the badge of all my tribe."

Zionism can, over time, more time than any of us have here, mean an end to that kind of suffering...and it gives those Shylock figures somewhere to go, be safe, and hopefully to be allowed to be a happier and better and less bitter person than Shylock. He's referred to as often as "the Jew" in that play, by the way, as by his own name, if not more so...

With Israel, no one is simply "the Jew," to be singled out and targeted, and that "sufferance" doesn't have to continue for the Jews, because they're unified there, protected, and secure--so that "hope of 2,000 years" can stretch on another 2,000 at least.

So that's why I'm an atheist American non-Israeli Zionist, FineRedMist.