Violence is bad.

No one is advocating violence, but there are people who advocate for a philosophy that advocates for a society that advocates communities who play diplomacy who advocate forums in which one may advocate an environment in which violence may or may not be directly or indirectly encouraged or discouraged.

I think we should all take a step back and think about that.

Violence should be reserved for those unable to write clearly.

So what is wrong with being attracted to a transwoman?

What part of the story is most problematic? That a group of men think they have a right to cat-call women on the street - implied usage of publuc spaces and them being places for men to act and women to be acted uppn.

Or the homophobia of killing to tran woman for having a penis and thus possibly tainting these cat-calls by making the men 'gay'?

Or the inherent lack of value for human life? (Whether trans, gay, or woman)

There's nothing wrong with being attracted to a trans person. Cat calling is rude. And no one should kill anyone because of their lifestyle choices. I think most people here are on the same page.

I'll tell you what I find problematic about that article. I find his attack on LGB people with

"The LGB movement has buried the voices of trans folk under mountains of corporatized parades"

to be rediculous and entirely unjustified.

It is made to look even more daft by his support of Mia Isabella about whom he says

"Mia Isabella, a model and porn star who courageously stood up against the shaming of her relationships"

This is the same Mia Isabella who futhered the understanding and respect of transpeople everywhere when she starred in such moving pictures as "Bang My Tranny Ass 8", "Transsexual Prostitutes 65", and "Full Service Transsexuals 9". The same Mis Isabella who describes herself as "The cutest little TS chick with the biggest candy stick"

I find it hard to imagine anyone who has gone to greater lengths to portray Trans women as little more than pieces of meat for the entertainment of men, and yet it is Mia who is put on a pedestal and the LGB movement that are the bad guys.

The article is a joke. The author is a joke.

The story of the killing of Islan Nettles is horrifying and unfortunately not the only one of its kind. Trans people are caught at the crossroads of so many different kinds of discrimination and abuse. The fact that this is the case is one of the things that causes me to be so annoyed when people describe being transgender as a "lifestyle choice" as though it's as casual as deciding whether to take up jogging.

Take a breath, jamiet, and don't miss the forest for the trees.

Whut?

lol, forest for the trees. Good one, abge.

@Oct, do you not think it is a problem for a 'community' when certain parts of it are hurt by others?

I'd be fairly familiar with B-erasure, Bisexual people who end up in aerious committed relationships tend to be assumed to be either straight or gay, depending on their current partner. Even to the point of being excluded from gay/lesbian spaces.

Now i'm not trans, and i'm not familiar with any T being ostracized by the LGB community, but i find listening to other people's voices to be useful...

ora: Name one single community on Earth where certain parts aren't hurt by others.

I'm not saying that violence against anyone is right, but the people pushing for normalization for every lifestyle don't seem to have a firm grasp on reality or human nature.

@ Ora

I wouldn't describe trans people as a community any more than I'd describe straight people as a community. People being assaulted and murdered is a problem, but a rare one that the police work hard to keep to a minimum.

"but i find listening to other people's voices to be useful"

With the greatest respect, I dispute that utterly. You have only ever posted voices of the left and far left. A wide selection of different people from the left, but every one of them echoes your political opinion. You never truly listen to right thinking voices, which I am certain is why whenever you state what you believe a right wing view to be it is comically unrealistic verging on insulting.

There is not an identified "straight community" because "straight" is the default, but for what it's worth, straight white males often speak as though they are one community when it comes to issues like this.

And @orathaic, as a bisexual person, I can certainly confirm that B-erasure, as you put it, is a thing, and it has happened to me.

@Octavious: you have a fair point.

But it does not change the fact that i can't speak for all trans people or the trans community in general. I can quote them to amplify their voices. But to claim i know what life is like for them is rather insulting.

That i choose to quote left and far left people is entirely true. I would like to support the views i actually believe in. And i believe in, so you are right that you don't see me amplifying voices i disagree with. That doesn't mean i don't listen and then dispute their positions.

They were mad because they felt deceived when they realized the person strutting around acting like a woman WAS A DUDE. He was NOT a woman. HE was a mentally ill person with gender dysphoria. So, if anything, this is a case of men beating a mentally ill person.

Funny thing is...a few months ago the media was ablaze with the news that a woman working for the NAACP who professed that she was black was actually not black. She claims that she self-identifies as black.

I have no doubt in my mind that orathaic and others like him were **outraged** that a that this woman could have decieved people in such a way. There was no leniency for understanding what this woman felt. Worse still, not only was she not harming anyone, but presumably she was doing a good job at the NAACP and helping the black people that she self-identified with.


That "liberals" are so REPUSLIVELY hypocritical makes the discussion of this FAKE ISUE moot.

There is no proof that this MAN was beat because he was gender dysphoric. He may have mouthed off and said some shit he should have said....which is why gangs of men beat people up on a regular basis.

Further....you want to get on your high fucking horse about your outrage about violence? There is violence EVERY FUCKING DAY around the world. There is a *vast* amount of "black on black" violence that takes place. There is an even worse spate of "Muslim on Muslim" violence around the world.

I don't really give a piss about this story. It isn't a "thing"....it isn't *nearly* as awful as the other violence that goes on around us regularly that orathaic is silent about.

If he cared about violence, he would care about all violence...and it would be his **constant** cause, not some deviant politically-motivated crap like this.

Gender dysphoric people HAVE a space in society, and they have been living in it at peace forever, just as everyone else has. They just happen to have better publicists now to make anything negative about them news-worthy as they attempt to gain *special* rights (not equal rights) in society.

Go away, orathaic.

For the record -- I"m NOT saying it was right that this men beat this man for his gender dyphoric mental illness that caused him to decieve them. It is simply why. Because he made them feel bad. And they are not alowed to feel bad when they are lied to...in fact, the gender dysphoric supporters like orathaic almost relish the idea of "normal" people being offended in favor of gend dysphoric people....which in and of itself is perverse.

I have no doubt that this gender dysphoric person INCITED the violence against him not because he was dressed in drag, but probably because he copped an attitude and insulted the men.

@krellin You can't validly, in the one breath, say "it's not right" and simultaneously pretend that the victim is at fault because they "incited" the incident. Doubly so when the strong likelihood is that they didn't do anything of the sort.

Feeling bad because you think you've been deceived is one thing. Whatever. That doesn't entitle you, or anyone, to claim that that is incitement to violence, or to further carry on and actually commit violence.

FFS, this is a Diplomacy site. If we thought that feeling bad because you were lied to entitled you to commit actual violence, we'd be murdering each other all over the place.

@thorf: Are you actually childish enough to think that every action that is "not right" cannot ALSO be incited by someone else's actions? NO VIOLENCE IS "RIGHT", you idiot...but that doesn't mean that some violence is not incited by someone else's action.

If I stand in front of you and call you a twat and insult your mother and gently poke you in the chest for, oh, I don't know, about two hours straight...I'll bet that even though I am not "harming" you, I can incite you into violence of some sort.

You liberals and you fucking ridiculous denial of reality...it astounds me you can make your way through the day and survive, so detached from reality are you.

I am suggesting that the MAN dressed as woman probably thought that he was somehow "safe" from normal "male-on-male" violence, and when they started cat-calling HIM, he eventually said things that were inappropriate...things that, were he a "normal" man, he never would dare say to another man because it would be *not unexpected* for them to react negatively.

In fact, had this been reported as "men beat up a man" it never would make the news, just like if it were "black beats up black" it wouldn't be reported and you wouldn't care. You don't care about "normal" violence, which happens continuously around you and you willfully blind your eyes to it.

BUT....let it be a case where someone behaves in a (still generally socially-)unacceptable way as a man towards another man, and suddenly it's a "special case" and needs special attention.

Here's the truth -- it will NEVER be generally socially acceptable for men to dress as women and PRETEND they are actually women -- most humans are simply not wired to accept that as normal. Oh...most people will have the decency to ignore it...just as most of you ignore and excuse black on black violence and pretend it's OK (liberals (you?) do this - pretend it's ok - by never talking about it, doing nothing about it, and seeking to silence those who discuss it...)

So, we will never "carve out a space" where it is socially normal for men to be attracted to men dressing up like and woman and pretending to be women.

If someone (orathaic) thinks this will ever happen, I suspect it is because he has never been attracted to someone, or is simply pretending for the purposes of his political cause to not understand what human attraction is.

Attraction isn't just "Oh...look at that sexy <gender> form!!" Attraction is usually based upon the thoughts and desires of some future interaction with that <gender> form...hopefully including pleasant interesting conversation before the (obvious!) desire for sex comes to fruition.

In fact, orathaic's assertion that men should be free to carve out space to be "attracted" to gender dysphorics simply based on psychical appearance it hypocritical in the extreme....i.e. if *I* were to come on this web site and say it should be totally socially acceptable for men to hoot and howl and cat call a woman walking by simply because she is hot....he would call me a fucking chauvinist pig.

So this has nothing to do with orathaic (or anyone like him) seeking some sort of equal treatment....it is just another case of seeking special carve-out in behavior to allow groups of deviant-thinking people to behave DIFFERENTLY than what is normally allowed, and in fact to have people behave in a manner that orathaic himself would judge unacceptable in other "normal" human situations (such as between self-admitted men and women).

This whole story is politically driven media hype for the gullible sheep.

Haha. No. *shrug*

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11802703_465967176918885_3088457184163100620_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

Thanks Krellin for your ignorance, it really helps highlight the point i was trying to make.

Much appreciated!

Love and Kisses,
-Orathaic

www.sciencealert.com/in-a-remote-town-in-the-dominican-republic-some-girls-turn-into-boys

I wonder what would happen if this was more common!

That is truly fascinating. Despite being raised exactly the same way as girls, these boys with late penis growth still demonstrate traditionally male characteristics. It sort of suggests that the reason there are differences between the sexes is far less about societal pressures and far more about nature.

Cheers for sharing, ora

@Octavious: i believe the 'traditional' ways of behaving are determined by culture - ie they are different in Japan and America; but there is also biology at work determinin which behaviours you pick up (ie whether you follow American Boy culture or American Girl culture - if you were born and raised in Japan the only choice would be between Japanese Boy and Japanese Girl culture)

I definitely agree that biology (or nature, as you put it) has a big influence; but what it means to be a man varies from culture to culture, so societal pressure (or role modelling) definitely have a big influence aswell.

The reason i mention Japan, is because i read recently that stereotypically Japanese men are interdependent contrasting the independence of American stereotypical men.

That different virtues are held highly in different countries due to historical/cultural differences.

@Krellin: "I have no doubt that this gender dysphoric person INCITED the violence against him not because he was dressed in drag, but probably because he copped an attitude and insulted the men."

Let's just allow this comment to remain on the permanent record.

If you insult Krellin, or generally "cop an attitude" in response to him, Krellin is within his rights to gather a posse of same-thinking bigots who will, quite rightly, beat you to death. This is what you *deserve* for challenging the conservative social norm.

Excellent research Orathaic.

Also this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Transmisogyny