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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 865 of 1419
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bolshoi (0 DX)
02 Mar 12 UTC
who needs lebanon?
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/01-03-2012/120646-No_Lebanon_will_be_on_map-0/

why stop at palestine? keep the bulldozers rolling!
3 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
29 Feb 12 UTC
Where the free market FAILED
sorta a late response to a lot of TCs advocating free market captialism. This is an article and talk about an industry that because of how free the market was, the market failed.
http://www.economist.com/node/21548240
65 replies
Open
bolshoi (0 DX)
02 Mar 12 UTC
question of skill
if there is a game where the only two countries to cd are england and italy, and the game eventually leads to a four way draw, where france is just about to be eliminated at the end. does that indicate gross incompetence on france's part? this question is of vital importance to my self worth.
2 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
THE TRUTH SHALL NOT BE SILENCED
-p e
0 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Mar 12 UTC
This is a Debug Thread
DO *NOT* Post here unless you are bolshoi.
I am trying to reproduce a reported bug.
bolshoi, Please just post, numbering 1, 2, 3, etc until the bug appears. Then stop posting and PM me.
If anyone else posts here, I will Silence you.
63 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
29 Feb 12 UTC
MadHouse's invitational
gameID=81977
You're all cowards. Players with a >100 GR wouldn't dare to be in this game.
126 replies
Open
Werner (1139 D)
29 Feb 12 UTC
Need help from a mod
Could one of the mods please take a look at the game "The Med... Is the best VI"? Seems we are stuck in pause due to a newbie who has since left the game. Thanks!
3 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
MadHouse Invitational Roll-Call
gameID=81977

As the game was supposed to have a list of all participants made available, I thought it would be better to post here instead of in game and reveal identity.
4 replies
Open
DILK (1539 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
High Stakes Gunboat
Hey everyone, I want to start a high point WTA anon gunboat. I am thinking at least a few hundred points. Would anyone be interested? If so shoot me a PM and we can discuss points, time per phase, and the password.
I am just sick of PPSC games and constant CD's.
Also it'd be best to not post in this thread and just PM me to keep up the anonymity
15 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
Need players
Dear all,
I still need some strong players for this game
gameID=81977
Classic, full-press, WTA, 101 D, anon, PM me for the password!
5 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Mar 12 UTC
England Needed -- Good position (Top 3)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=80985#gamePanel
0 replies
Open
dvp834 (100 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
H. Kissinger's Allies game
if you need an extra player, i'd love to join
2 replies
Open
World Diplomacy - Tripping on a Wipple Dip
Please join my game. And then, please buy my books.
4 replies
Open
Aphetor (121 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
Move Review
Hey folks -

I'm a bit new to Dip, and I couldn't find anything in the rules or the DATC tests to help me figure out why the outcome of the move I just saw resulted the way it did.
2 replies
Open
Geofram (130 D(B))
17 Feb 12 UTC
Re: Ghost-Rating, Fill This Out.
http://tinyurl.com/ghostratingsurvey
Do it. Do it now. And post criticism or needed additions to the form here.
53 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Mar 12 UTC
Cleanroom Update
I don't know if anyone cares, but this forum as been overflowing with bile recently, so I'm going to post this anyway.
22 replies
Open
steephie22 (182 D(S))
26 Feb 12 UTC
in religion people question almost everything but everybody assumed Jesus was there
opening message is too long, will be reply...
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dubmdell (556 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
I would like to offer a counterpoint to those making the "historical evidence is weak for accepted academic belief" argument. This is from my own research.

Croesus, the king of Sardis, supposedly lived around 550 BC. He asked for oracles from Delphi regarding his impending war with the Persians and then lost his battles with Cyrus the Great. Our earliest written tradition (think, gospels) is the poet Bacchylides, who claims that Apollo rescued Croesus from self-immolation on a funeral pyre. Herodotus tells us that Cyrus not only put him on the funeral pyre, but he also took him down. Xenophon tells us that Cyrus simply captured Croesus, no pyre involved. Ctesias writes an altogether different history, saying that Croesus fled to the temple of Apollo where he was caught, bound, and divinely freed three times. The only historical record apart from these guys that we have is a small Lu- inscription in Sumerian, which may indicated Lydia, and a pot scene that falls in line with the poetic version of Bacchylides.

What can historians say about Croesus? Only that he lived and lost his battle with Cyrus. The rest is a mystery. Presumably the Greeks had no idea what happened to him, but there's no reason to believe the ancient authors either. Even in antiquity, Herodotus and Ctesias were lampooned by Lucian. Croesus does have an advantage that many historical figures do not: he was attested by multiple cultures, the Greeks and the Persians.

The historical figure of Jesus Christ is no where substantiated outside the gospels. Josephus makes a sketchy reference to him, but the name isn't even right. You know that he had no decent evidence for king Tut of Egypt being paralyzed in any way until recent genetic tests confirmed his disabilities? The Egyptian record makes no mention. There is no archeological evidence for Jericho of Joshua fame. There is no written record outside the Torah for Moses, the exodus, et al. The theological changes from Mark to John are so stark as to be believed they were not from firsthand accounts.

My point being this: there is stronger evidence for most historical figures than there is for Jesus Christ. To throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, would be a great fallacy and concession by those not advocating for historical Jesus as recorded in the gospels.
You doubt, though, that the Bible is a historical text. Much of the events that were described in it actually happened, though the people at the time tried to explain it as best they could. There was indeed a flood, though it didn't flood the whole world. Rather, scientists now theorize that the flood was actually caused by the breaching of the Bosporus and the creation of what is now the Black Sea. the destruction of Sodom and Gammorah actually happened, and scientists have also proven that the Red Sea was physically able to be parted in extreme circumstances (Tides, winds, and weather pattern had to be just right) due to the much lower sea levels at the time.
@dubmdell; Many scholars would disagree with your statement that "Jesus Christ is no where substantiated outside the gospels". Many anti-christian writers wrote things to try and slander him in the first 100 or so years after he died. Ironically, their public hatred of him proved his existence.
semck83 (229 D(B))
28 Feb 12 UTC
Yeah dubmdell, your central claim is absurd. First of all, there's Paul. Second of all, there are tons more people. Also, Josephus's reference -- even the weaker, non-controversial one -- isn't sketchy in any way.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Feb 12 UTC
dubmdell is just being a militant athiest. His only denial of any spiritual world means he must also tear down, even with false evidence, the historical records of anything related to a supreme being. He'll discount the Bible as not being a historical record and refer to it as if it were written by ine person. False evidence considering how many writers there were in just the New Testament alone.

And for the record: Militant athiest = one who not only denies the existence of a spiritual world/higher power, but who feels compelled to persecute and tear down the beliefs of others.
dubmdell (556 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
@gold, there are portions that are not historical. I know that the shipwreck of Paul was found and the temple of Solomon of course existed and there is record of the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions, etc. but not all portions are historically accurate, such as Jericho. It is also generally accepted that the gospels are more theological than historical in intent.

@shock, semck, I checked out my information, and admittedly I was working with some old views. I was unaware of Tacitus, which is shameful, I know. The Josephus translation that I worked with previously also seems to have had an error in it, which is why I asserted that he got the name wrong.

@Draugnar, first of all, there are many, many Christians who claim the bible was divinely inspired and thus completely written by God, meaning, one author but many human agents instead of many authors. Secondly, I was not attacking nor discounting the existence of a spiritual world, only saying that the notion of dismissing a historical Jesus meant we had to dismiss other historical figures is false. This is why I included that the archeological record does not testify to the Joshua Jericho story. Unfortunately for the historicity of Jesus, the letters of Paul really aren't evidence for Jesus historical existence, only his spiritual existence.
dubmdell (556 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
*when I say "meaning one author many agents," I am stating how they mean it and not some extrapolation of my own.
Barn3tt (41969 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
@shock, semck, I checked out my information, and admittedly I was working with some old views. I was unaware of Tacitus, which is shameful, I know. The Josephus translation that I worked with previously also seems to have had an error in it, which is why I asserted that he got the name wrong

So, do you conceded that there are independent historical supports for the existance of Christ? Again, I do feel the bar of proof for the simple proof of his historical existance is being unevenly applied.


@Draugnar, first of all, there are many, many Christians who claim the bible was divinely inspired and thus completely written by God, meaning, one author but many human agents instead of many authors.

This is your argument for discounting the Gospels as multiple sources? Really? You take an argument that is dependent on faith (it is slightly skewed from what I believe), assume that it is true, and then use it to disprove the historicity of Christ.
Intersting.

Unfortunately for the historicity of Jesus, the letters of Paul really aren't evidence for Jesus historical existence, only his spiritual existence.

So, the letters of Paul, Jude, John, Peter, James have no historical merit? Why?
dubmdell (556 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
"This is your argument for discounting the Gospels as multiple sources?"

No, this is in response to "and refer to it as if it were written by ine person."

"then use it to disprove the historicity of Christ."

I am not trying to disprove the historicity of Christ, I am trying to assert that, if one should dismiss the historical Christ, they do not also have to dismiss the myriad historical figures that have been claimed to require equal dismissal.

"So, the letters of Paul, Jude, John, Peter, James have no historical merit?"

I only said the letters of Paul, and I should not have made that assertion. Although, since you mention the other epistles, perhaps it is worth the mention, the position of Luther on the canonicity of Jude or the academic position on the authorship of Second Peter, as a rebut to sola scriptura.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Feb 12 UTC
@dubm - So because some group adopted a history book to also be their Bible, that discounts the historical value of the book? Just because believers think it was God's word and is perfect doesn't mean it wasn't written by many people. It was physically written by many people so, if you discount God, you must discount claims it was written by God, and accept it as a document for historical purposes. Luke, for instance, was a physisican in those times and not one to write fantasy, but prefered to stick to the facts.
SacredDigits (102 D)
28 Feb 12 UTC
I'm not a Christian, but I have to say that I have far better things to do with my time than try to prove Jesus never existed. Because, really, any argument over two thousand year old documents is going to have a ton of wiggle room, and clearly there's a general consensus that he did exist to some degree or another, so it's going to be a steep uphill climb. And the people arguing against his existence are using some really lazy research ("I think there's something called Document Q? You look it up.") and twisting things around like the "one author" claim rather than rely on a consistent and well-researched view. Honestly, were I a person who wanted to disprove Christianity (I am not, I feel it's pointless to try despite not personally believing in it), I'd go ahead and accept that Jesus was a historical figure and just try to go from there, because you'd get a lot more mileage than trying to muck around with historical records.

I really don't think that there's any worth in trying to muck with anyone's religious beliefs as long as it doesn't affect others adversely. I can see arguing against passages (largely from the Old Testament and Paul) that are damaging to women or homosexuals or whatever, but whether or not Jesus existed doesn't really affect anyone in an adverse way.

I apologize to Christians for deliberately not capitalizing my pronouns. I usually do it out of respect, but in this case I'm talking about Jesus as a historical figure, not as a Son of God.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
28 Feb 12 UTC
Draugnar, yes--sorry I wasn't clear.
semck83 (229 D(B))
29 Feb 12 UTC
Of likely interest to some, and tangentially related, is this report on Science Daily today.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120228102137.htm

Not that this establishes all that much, but it's interesting, and does go to a question that was addressed earlier about the Jews practicing Christianity near the time when Christ lived. (This is all assuming, of course, that the interpretation of the marks is right).
Mujus (1495 D(B))
29 Feb 12 UTC
Dismiss the historical Christ? That would be an error in logic and go against the weight of the evidence.
spyman (424 D(G))
29 Feb 12 UTC
TheRavenKing wrote: "They were young enough to be his contemporaries, and who would have cared enough to write about Jesus unless they knew him and wanted to prove him, or knew him and wanted to disprove him? "

Who? By the early followers of this teachings.

His teaching were probably spread via word of mouth originally. After all, in those days, the vast majority of people were illiterate. Perhaps some stories and teachings were written down, but early on they would not have the concept of "this is the definitive text". As the word spread the stories and teachings would have inevitably varied from place to place (Chinese whispers), which would have led to debates, and then to the realization that they had better start getting the story straight. Hence the Gospels started to appear. Far more Gospels than are currently part of the New Testament. The really early Christians would not have had the sense that they were part of a new religion, the way Christian do today, and they probably expected Christ to return - within their lifetimes, maybe even any day. With the end of times close at hand there might not been the sense of "we better make sure this is all recorded for posterity" - as there wasn't supposed to be a posterity.
Mujus (1495 D(B))
02 Mar 12 UTC
@Spyman--Yes! In fact, that's how Luke starts his account: Luke1:1 Many people have set out to write accounts about the events that have been fulfilled among us. 2 They used the eyewitness reports circulating among us from the early disciples. [fn1] 3 Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus, 4 so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught....


76 replies
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
02 Mar 12 UTC
TC vs. Bolshoi
It's on!
14 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Mar 12 UTC
who is boilsho is he new.
4 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
01 Mar 12 UTC
Dear bolshoi,
If you're the only one calling attention to your own trolling, you are not a troll. Please refrain from soiling our bad name with your even worse attempts.

Thanks,
Eden
42 replies
Open
hugu37 (100 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
country assignment
is there a formula, or is it random? I'm in 7 ongoing games currently, assigned Austria in 3 of them and Germany 2. Just seems a little overstacked. Granted, I've also had periods wherein I was Russia in 3/4 games at one point. Not griping, just curious to know how it works.
2 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
29 Feb 12 UTC
Game 6: Revelation
7 replies
Open
Puddle (413 D)
29 Feb 12 UTC
Iranian Nuclear Proliferation
Opener too long, be as a response.

21 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
27 Feb 12 UTC
Does this speech make you puke?
As my time here is winding down I've been posting less and have had a no thread posting policy. Unfortunately a news item that kicked me in the balls has popped up and I wanted to see if anyone can support the statements of one-half of the Republicans dynamic duo.

The question, like Mr. Santorum does this speech make you puke, and if so which part?
104 replies
Open
bolshoi (0 DX)
01 Mar 12 UTC
forum bug?
each page in a thread displays 30 comments, right? but i think if there are 31 comments in a thread, i'm only getting one page showing up, and that last comment is, i guess, on a second page that i can't get to. it's only once there get to be 32 comments that i'm allowed to see page 2 where the 31'st comment was.

is this a known issue? have other people experienced this?
10 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
29 Feb 12 UTC
EVERYONE who posts wins!
We all win!
19 replies
Open
kreilly89 (100 D)
02 Mar 12 UTC
400 bid, 2 day phase, WTA, anon match
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=82091
0 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
01 Mar 12 UTC
Russia's builds
I have an interesting question on Russia's builds. I'm currently in a game as Russia, but it's a general question that I ask to the community:
24 replies
Open
Jesper0228 (1525 D)
01 Mar 12 UTC
Moderator: Unpause two games please!!
Can some moderator please unpause "the blame game-3" and "12 hour fun-2" ? We are waiting for days now and nothing happens! Thanks in advance
1 reply
Open
Philalethes (100 D(B))
01 Mar 12 UTC
The Grandest Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=81972
2 replies
Open
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