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Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
29 Jun 11 UTC
What's in a defintion
A sign in a parking lot says American Made Cars only. What's in a definition?
84 replies
Open
BenGuin (248 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Team Games and Declaration of War
I know that this idea have been going around a long time, but I want to add some twist to it be predetermining the alliances... anyone intrested?
7 replies
Open
quebeclove (109 D)
22 Jun 11 UTC
SoW game
I would love to be a student in an SoW game. Would people have any interest?
237 replies
Open
Ulysses (724 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Terrorist killed in Afghanistan just hours before posting a video online
http://tinyurl.com/3awf6d2
4 replies
Open
Furball (237 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
webDiplomacy: 1 year anniversary!
Hey all!! It's been 1 year since the first time I came online in webDiplomacy!!
I'm congratulating myself!!
Not exactly one year, but about 1 year!
9 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
24 Jun 11 UTC
War and Peace
.
81 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
I wonder...
With the new mute feature...
17 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Community Reinvestment Act
If you do not know about this act, first passed in 1977 during the Carter administration and updated significantly during the Clinton adminstration, you should because it has had enormous impact on the United States.
3 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
Police
having an interesting convo about "peace" officers in a game. Thought a few others might like to share their opinions on it. Or call me an idiot for mine.
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
[Russia]:I have many cop friends but I strongly dislike what cops often are: simply tax collectors. Speeding tickets, red light cameras--these things are not about safety; they are about revenue collection. I hate that.
06:00 PM [Europe]:but thats not the cops fault.
they are just doing their jobs
and you could argue that speeding is a safety issue...not 20 over, but 50 over? totally
06:05 PM [Brazil]:I'm assuming Russia lives in the suburbs? Maybe if you lived in Newark or Baltimore you'd have a teeny bit more respect for what cops do.

And even though it's patently obvious how not letting people run red lights makes us safer, what exactly do you hate most about revenue collection? Is it the fact that it helps pay for roads, educate the nation's children, or subsidize your food that you find the most detestable?
06:05 PM [You]:most people who hate nazi's have never talked to a person, and later found out that person was a nazi, and the only experience theyve had with nazis was when the nazi was on duty telling them not to do something...that and seeing media horror stories.

Some cops, like some nazi's are great people. Love their families, kind to animals , give to the needy, etc. The problem isnt so much whether or not they are good people, its the inherent violence in their profession. We're not talking about andy fucking griffith here.

I have met cops, FBI agents, DHS counter-terrorism, you name it, in every shape and form. Some were really cool people, but hitler was a vegetarian. Anyone who thinks cops are a-ok are at least three of these.
white
male
straight
middle class
cis-gendered
stupid
06:07 PM [You]:"they are just doing their jobs"
=
"they were just following orders"
06:21 PM [Europe]:wow...you MUST be american
I'll admit, america has a boatload of problems, and yes, in the states plenty of cops are straight white middle class men who were raised to hate blacks, muslims and obama...just like many non-cop americans

not sure if you've ever been outside of the US, but places do exist where cops are not nazis. I live in canada and know plenty of muslim, black, female, and gay cops who dont hat on average civilians for fun

yes, the profession has inherent violence, but think how society would be with no cops
06:21 PM [Europe]:*"hate" on civilians for fun
06:28 PM [Brazil]:Thanks for the reducto ad absurdem FA. If I may make a radical argument, I don't think Nazis and cops are the same. For example, cops arrest drug dealers, respond to burglary calls, and are generally desirous of protecting their communities. Nazis started World War II and are responsible for the Holocaust.

Most Nazis are, contrary to what some believe, are actually not great people. The fact that they love their families only means they are organisms that evolved with certain paternal traits/genes. The only animals a Nazi wouldn't eat are those with blonde hair and blue eyes. The only charities they support are the Kill All the Fags Foundation and the Association to Retake the Rhineland.

The vegetarian fun fact is ridiculous as well. Not only was Adolf not a vegetarian (he ate meat occasionally), but he limited his flesh consumption for health reasons, not because of his moral character. How this relates to cops is beyond me at any rate.

Anyone who understands that cops can be pricks yet respects their role in society is at least one of these:

rational
educated
over 21 years old
not a Nazi
06:40 PM [You]:@ europe.
I am specifically talking about american cops.
yes cops and nazis are not the same, just that there are parallels. The power of both, for example, rests on the threat of violence.

A cops role is society is to protect private property, specifically of the rich. To protect the status quo. Saying that they are there to protect US, is just something we tell ourselves to feel better about an armed occupation.
06:44 PM [Europe]:hmmm
I dont think a cops role is to protect property, but rather non-physical ideals of moral behaviour which are verbalised as "laws"
catching speeders, rapists, arsonists, drug dealers etc
in order to stop violent people, you must use violence yourself, or at least have it as a last resort option
if cops couldnt use violence, then we would have no society at all, merely anarchy

they need the threat of force, just as do any persons who want someone else to do something. many people would say parents do the same
06:45 PM [You]:The police exist to enforce the will of the powerful; anyone who has not had a bad experience with them is likely either privileged or submissive. Today’s police officers, at least in North America, know exactly what they’re getting into when they join the force; people in uniform don’t just get cats out of trees in this country. Yes, most take the job because of what they feel to be economic necessity, but needing a paycheck is no excuse for obeying orders to evict families, harass young men of color, or pepper spray demonstrators etc
06:48 PM [You]:To make this clear: yes, cops are people too, and deserve the same respect due all living things. The point is not that they deserve to suffer, or that we have to bring them to justice—that’s Christian morality again, dealing in currencies of superstition and resentment. The point is that, in purely pragmatic terms, in order that others not have to suffer, it may be necessary to interrupt, by militant and confrontational means, the injustices perpetrated by police officers. It can be empowering for those who have spent their lives under the heel of oppression to contemplate finally settling the score with their oppressors; however, a real liberation struggle does not focus on exacting revenge, but rather on solving problems so that all might have better lives. Therefore, while it may even sometimes be necessary to set police on fire, this should not be done out of a spirit of vengeful self-righteousness, but from a place of careful thought and compassion—if not for the police themselves, then for all those who would otherwise suffer at their hands.

One could make the argument that encouraging people to struggle against the police does more to publicize disapproval of them than to cause actual assaults. One could even argue that it thereby does a service not only for those who suffer police oppression, but also for the families of police officers and even for the officers themselves—for not only do police officers have a disproportionately high rate of domestic violence and child abuse, they also get killed, commit suicide, and become addicts with disproportionate frequency. Anything that demoralizes police officers and delegitimizes their authority, thus encouraging them to quit their posts, is in their best interest as well as the interest of their loved ones and society at large.
06:50 PM [You]:If you dont clean your room or do the dishes, your parents probably wont tase you.

And by the way europe the most despicable argument is that we need police. According to this line of thinking, even if we can aspire to live in a society without police in the distant future, we need them today, for people are not ready to live with each other in peace without armed enforcers. As if the social imbalances and submissiveness maintained by the violence of the police are peace!
You who argue that the police sometimes do good things bear the burden of proving that those same good things could not be accomplished at least as well by other means.
06:52 PM [You]:PS did you already forget how this convo started? The Swat team raided the wrong house, shot it up, didnt kill anyone thankfully, then got FUCKING MEDALS.

It's not like this is an isolated incident. at all lol
06:57 PM [You]:In fact, heres a map

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
06:58 PM [Europe]:oh, dont get me wrong. I'm not saying all cops are saints.
I'm just saying that cops are humans, and like all humans, they make mistakes. You make mistakes, they make mistakes, i make mistakes. No one hates you pathologically for making a mistake.
And ya, some of them are d-bags, and some are like nazis. But some arent, and hating all of them because some of them are tools...not very smart.
Classic definition of prejudice, actually. Hating ALL people of one set because of the actions of SOME people of that set

I may as well hate ALL people who ever play Ghana because one person who plays Ghana decided to attack me
;-)
07:07 PM [You]:[You]:To make this clear: yes, cops are people too, and deserve the same respect due all living things.
[Europe]
"I'm just saying that cops are humans"

yea, I JUST said that.
Anyway i think you are missing my point. I hate cops, not necessarily the people themselves, I hate the profession. The profession itself is bad/evil/hurtful/deleterious.
That was my nazi illusion, I wast trying to say 'cops are nazis'.
I was trying to say that even if someone is a good person, what they are is bigger than them in its harm. like the nazis who helped people in hiding during the war? probably good people. But they are still Fing nazis.
07:07 PM [You]:*A*llusion
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
*PLEASE
read the above before posting.
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
You idiot!
Octavious (2701 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
This has truly been enlightening. I never before realised how useful having different coloured writing for different countries is.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
You know...

At least when MY posts are that size, they generally contain slightly less batshit lunacy and bullshit ramblings (true, that's generally because I'm busy blathering on about "Hamlet" or Plato for the umpteenth time, but still--JESUS, MAN! OY!)
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
07:14 PM [Europe]:so you're saying that the profession "cop" is evil.
what do you think the world would be like with no cops?
07:15 PM [You]:Better.

I copy pasted as much of the convo here as I could to a thread on the forum, so we (I) dont clog up all the game space.
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
I see this thread is off to the usual start.
look, if you are not interested in the subject, dont participate, fuck.
I see I will be doing a lot of muting. nice feature that.

@ europe's previous post about private property
[2] Policing has included an array of activities in different situations, but the predominant ones are concerned with the preservation of order.[3] In some societies, in the late 18th century and early 19th century, these developed within the context of maintaining the class system and the protection of private property
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Lol it's long, I didn't read it all, maybe I will.

However your list intrigued me:

white
male
straight
middle class
cis-gendered
stupid

A whole hell of a lot of people fall into at least three of these categories lol. Like a very very large number of people. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Yes, there *are* black female trans-gender homosexual lower class geniuses... but I'm not sure how many.

Compared with, say, dumb white cis-gender straight upper class males.

In fact that's basically exactly what a frat boy is - except they also dislike cops because they break up their parties. Lol.

So I just read it: I have one big questions Sic:

How do you define the concept of justice? (if you have one I guess)

And the second question: what is your proposal to see to it that justice is done, in contrast with how it is done now?

Thx
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
In 2005, The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm.[27]
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
About police as an instrument of control - I'm not arguing that that's not true.

However that happens to almost every aspect of society - schools are an instrument of controls, hospitals, etc etc etc. Foucault etc.

And since America is capitalist a big part of the control that is being imposed is the sanctity of private property. The only group that can legally take your money without you asking is the government, in the form of tax. That shouldn't surprise anyone lol.

I don't think that's WHY police exist though. Some groups, maybe, you could argue that, like the FBI or CIA maybe. But your regular city cops exist because citizens demand a police force.

If some municipality abolished it's police and returned the used tax revenue do you actually really believe people wouldn't move away as soon as the looting got out of control (I'd give that maybe... 48 hours)?
acmac10 (120 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Sicarius, they may not have the constitutional duty, but they do have to obligation to protect a person from harm because of occupation.

If we're talking about when someone does something stupid in the basement (like playing with his furnace or whatever), the police shouldn't have to come over and save him from his death. But if there is a guy with a gun at a public place, of course it's their job! But really, you and you only have the real duty to protect yourself from harm, except for in criminal circumstances.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Yeah actually now that acmac mentions it I don't think the constitution has much to do with the police, who are employed by cities.

Each police force has an oath that they *are* obliged to uphold though... though they often don't.
Invictus (240 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
"Cis-gendered" is my new least favorite word.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
lol why.. it's the opposite of trans-gendered
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
hmm, define justice. Justice is one of those vaguely defined feel good words like freedom, liberty, etc.
I guess if you're pushing me I will say fairness, or equality, or at least a real 'equal opportunity' as opposed to what that term is commonly used for is modern corporate/capitalist society.
I dont think this is what you mean though, because equality cant really be 'done'. In the confines of how I am assuming you are framing the question, I would say justice is what a community would agree should happen in a breach of said communities ethics, whatever those may be.
you have to take into mind my framing as well though, is that modern society is too big, or more specifically, control of the community is so far removed from that community, that they essentially have no control over it. 'My' alternative to police then would be community control.
Lacking good examples, think of andy griffith, fictional sheriff of mayberry. one episode springs to mind.

Man gets too drunk and has a gun so the sheriff (andy) gets called in. he is with a big city cop or fed or something who thinks he is lousy. anyway they get to this guys house and he is taking shots at them. fed freaks out and wants to call (someone... reinforcements) instead andy walks right up to the door. sure he's beiong fired at but hes not hit. not that he dodges or somethign magical, the sheriff and the man know each other ( fed:omg you must be crazy, hes shooting! andy:oh thats just roy" or w/e) the point is that the two men have a rapport, which is something severly lacking in modern policing. why do you think andy never goes wacko and beat the shit out of anyone (other than him being a fictional character on a family show) is because they are his neighbors and friends. so andy gets the gun, does he take him to jail and charge him with attempted murder? no he 'borrows' his bullets till he sobers up. thats it. then he leaves.
obviously there are problems with this example, but community policing is always pro-active, instead of retributive. Like in tribal societies when 'crimes' were committed there wasnt this preset code of what must be 'done to' them in revenge/punishment, everyone would get together and disscuss what would be best to mitigate the negetive effects, rather than compounding them.
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
Oh and the medal thing, which started this convo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZnNG_QEUw&feature=player_embedded
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
When I asked you about justice I meant with regards to crime.

No matter how good your preventative measures, someone is going to kill someone else eventually.

So say that happens. What do you? Supposing you try to find out who did it, what do you with that person? How do you make sure they really did do it? And how do you decide what to do with them?

And who should do all the above?

(In contrast to cops, detectives, judges, juries, etc.)
Sicarius (673 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
maybe if officers were members of the communities they policed, and had that connection with the people there, things like this (june 30th) wouldnt happen

DAYTON, Ohio - Dayton police "mistook" a mentally handicapped teen-ager's speech impediment for "disrespect," so they Tasered, pepper-sprayed and beat him and called for backup from "upward of 20 police officers" after the boy rode his bicycle home to ask his mother for help, the boy's mom says. 

acmac10 (120 D(B))
03 Jul 11 UTC
As opposed to Singapore. If a crime is committed, the punishments are swift and terrifying; very much a deterrent, at least to me. I think too much punishment and not a lot of relaxed cops would impose a large government society, where fear rules.

In my suburban town, the police are friends, and we all know each other. Sure, they're serious when it comes down to business, but I don't think they'd be too forgiving for an accident like the above.
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
"No matter how good your preventative measures, someone is going to kill someone else eventually."

yeah duh. people will always fight/kill/steal whatever.


I just answered your second part. members of the community should police the community.
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Tasering, pepper-spraying, and brutally beating a 17 year old retarded boy, because you thought his slurring was 'disrespect' is somehow an "accident"? in what fucking world?
Ruisdael (1529 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
That's problematic, but the solution isn't to, I don't know, get rid of cops. That's a product of the fact that we live in an under-educated, brutish society. Punish those morons and take away ALL cops' tasers. Those fucking things have been way more trouble than they're worth.

By the way I'm Brazil in all that stuff above.
Macchiavelli (2856 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
wow...
Sicarus, you have a very unique view of reality

ok, so cops as a profession are evil, youve said
the solution, is no cops, but community "police"

what if the community is NYC, or LA, or Toronto, or London, and you have millions of people?

or, lets say we do devolve into tribes, where we live in small towns and only have a few thousand members. and lets say that community ppl act as "cops".

What is the essential difference between those community "cops" and real cops as we have today?

because in real life, andy griffith cant be friends with/have a rapport with everyone, sooner or later there will be a cop who doesnt know a potential criminal
Macchiavelli (2856 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
(Europe)
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/06/cops-just-love-those-tasers-mentally.html
^link to story



Let's imagine the following case: A shop owner hires John as a security guard in his establishment. In exchange for a salary, John starts to carry out his functions of protecting the merchant's and his customers' property from possible thefts and robberies by discouraging the actions of thieves through physical engagement if they attempt to commit a robbery. So far, so good — John performs one of the bravest and most noble professions, all within a strictly voluntary trading agreement and with respect for property. Now imagine that the store owner orders his security to destroy the competing stores, rendering his employer's store the only shopping option around. Or that John prevents — through the use or threat of physical violence — customers from buying products in places other than that of his employer. Or that John starts extorting a monthly amount of money from the entire neighborhood. Well, from this point on, anyone can say that if John chooses to comply with the orders from the owner of the store, he will become a criminal even though he continues to fulfill his original function of protecting the store and its customers from other criminals. But if John is an honest person who values moral consistency, he will surely refuse to commit such crimes and will look for another job. However, all functions described above are performed by state police: not only the function of protection of individuals' life and property against private criminal attacks, but also the criminal functions, such as preventing free competition in the market by implementing regulations, prohibitions and collection of taxes, amongst many others.

What is often claimed is that, unlike the security guard of the case above, the policeman does not follow orders from a private individual, but from a state. But this changes absolutely nothing of the nature of such actions. Human action is always individual. Only individuals act. Their actions are legitimate or criminal; and the fact that it has been ordered by a store owner, a president, a king, a dictator, or a majority of people in a particular territorial geography, does not turn vice into virtue. No one would say that the guards carrying out jus primae noctis were not criminals because they were acting on behalf of the king. Or, to use an example from a democratic state, the secret police officers of the German Nazi party executing Jews in concentration camps were not committing crimes because they were acting at the behest of a democratically elected government. These, for sake of example, are two cases in which a corrupt policeman who, in exchange for a bribe, wouldn't fulfill the "law" would be more desirable than the incorruptible one. And since every state has committed many crimes against its subjects, must we understand that all policemen are criminals? The answer is no, because the police are generally organized into subdivisions.

Police subdivisions

There are policemen that perform only virtuous and legitimate activities, there are ones that perform only criminal activities, and there are those that perform both types. The officers of the Anti-Kidnapping Division, for example, are police officers that do not involve themselves in criminal activities of the state for which they work. Their job is solely to combat the criminals who kidnap people — one of the most heinous crimes. And every time they get a job well done, they are rightly considered heroes, not only by the saved victims, but also by society as a whole. Not even the fact that they abstain themselves from fighting the largest kidnapping group of innocent people in society, which captures and keeps innocent victims captive for years at an impressive scale — the state — makes this division a criminal organism, for the non-action of refraining from helping someone can be considered immoral, but it can never be considered a criminal act. On the other hand, an example of policemen who are nothing but criminals are the policemen of the DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration). Their job is to seek and obstruct the commerce and usage of certain substances the state arbitrarily decides to ban, such as marijuana, inhalants, steroids, heroin, morphine, amphetamines and even creatine supplements for athletes. They use their weapons to pursue and kidnap people who are engaging in trade; to threaten life and property of sellers who are satisfying the free demand of buyers; and, to steal the goods and the freedom of innocent people. That is to say, doing nothing more than what criminals do. However, some other organs of the police are tasked to perform these and many other crimes, but also get assigned, for instance, to pursue and arrest a murderer. The FBI is an example of such a branch. It is assigned to commit the same crimes as the DEA and many other crimes like: the persecution and capturing of people who are merely trying not to be stolen from (whom they call "tax evaders"), people who are sending their own money outside the state (which they call "capital flight"), people who are entering the country with goods purchased abroad without the consent of the king (the nomenclature for which is "smuggling"), and they even have slaughtered men, women and children for just exercising their freedom of religion and their right to keep and bear arms, as in the case of Waco, TX (what they had the impudence enough to profess that these people were slaves and they represented a danger to themselves and to the surrounding community!). Finally, the lists of crimes that are committed by FBI are endless. But what if they are also entrusted with the task to pursue and arrest real criminals like murderers and rapists? How should we judge them and other police agencies that do both criminal and legitimate activities? Are they necessary and even heroic?

Simple dilemma

At first glance, what may seem a difficult dilemma to resolve turns out to be rather simple, for a "bandit" and "hero" are not mutually exclusive qualifications; i.e., a person — not a specific action — can be considered both a criminal and a hero. Let us consider the hypothetical case of a known thief in the neighborhood that had committed multiple robberies. Since he was always able to escape from the security agents that pursued him, let's imagine he was walking freely through the streets when he saw a burning building and, risking his own life, bravely faced the fire and saved the lives of a dozen people. Would someone say that he was no longer a thief then? Of course not, because a brave, heroic, decent act does not redeem or delete crimes committed before and neither does it with those that could be committed later. Likewise, a committed crime does not render a previous or a posterior heroic act non-existent. This thief will always be a hero to the dozen people who remain alive because of his act, but for his victims, he will always be the person who stole from them. Another example: if a man chases and arrests the rapist of a child and on the following day he murders a man, does he cease to be a killer and should he not pay for this crime? Obviously not, because although he deserves the recognition and admiration of all for helping to bring justice in the case of rape, he also deserves the contempt and scorn of society for killing an innocent person, and must be punished severely just as any other killer who has never committed a heroic act.

It is therefore simple to ethically analyze those police subdivisions that do not commit crimes and also those that only commit crimes; it is also easy to express an opinion on those subdivisions that perform both legitimate and necessary duties as well as criminal ones. The officers who are part of latter, mixed type of subdivisions that carry out these duties do not differ at all from John, the security guard of our example above, who starts to commit a series of crimes besides the fulfillment of his duty towards his employer's store. They are just criminals, who may sometimes also perform good deeds.

The difference between sporadic, private criminals and the police is that the former are anonymous; they are always running away and hiding, and are usually only revealed as criminals after being caught. The police officers, on the other hand, usually reveal their identity and are identified by uniforms and badges. Vehicles and buildings used by this criminal group openly display their markings. And they proudly flaunt their crimes, as when, for example, they "make an apprehension of drugs and smuggled goods", in other words, when they rob the property of merchants, and proudly announce to the society all the figures and details of the robbery they carried out. (that makes them a gang)

Conclusion

Thus, this compulsory monopoly of the use of force, that in addition to this crime — monopoly— practices many others, creates a situation where the police, which should be the guardian of property rights, is the same unit that attacks such rights; that those who should execute one of the most honorable and courageous functions of society: the addressing and directly tackling of some of the worst things in our world — human wickedness — manifested in the form of terrible crimes against life and property, are the same people who in most cases commit many other crimes,

and sometimes exclusively commit crimes. It is still amazing that, for example, a police officer that heroically risks his life to protect people from a robbery one day, invades private property and points his guns at elderly women to prevent them from enjoying their bingo game on the following day; thus deserving the same social contempt destined to the robber he arrested the day before for this crime and so many others committed on a daily basis. These people that — by a divine gift, a genetic predisposition or any reasons whatsoever — have the courage to face the most vicious elements of society should be the first to denounce the crimes ordered by the state and, of course, refuse to take part in them
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
LA or London cant be considered communities anymore than say "africa" or 'china'
I mean a real community, in which everyone actually does know one another. even if you dont know their favorite food, you should at least know OF them, and how they relate to you, like oh thats cherl's kid. then maybe you wouldnt have this kind of thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6e6ptP_GS8
let alone this kind of thing
http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/Beating-caught-on-police-video-1301303.php
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
03 Jul 11 UTC
Lol, Sicarius, without police, what would you do if you knew armed robbers were going to attack your house?
acmac10 (120 D(B))
03 Jul 11 UTC
For video 1, those kids need to step up and say something. I'm all for respect, but a police officer does not have the authority to do anything in that video--take without permission (stealing anyone?), throw a kid to the ground...Disappointing...:(
Ruisdael (1529 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Also that's a bullshit definition of community. Cities are communities, since all their denizens share a million different aspects of their lifestyles. They're the best communities because they're where everything is. According to you only Podunk, Idaho, Pop. 65 is a real community. This is reminiscent of calling anyone landlocked a Real American and anyone in Manhattan a commie Jew queer.
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
03 Jul 11 UTC
yes, obviously we should be policed by members of the community... people who feel that they are part of the neighborhood/city, that they care about the neighborhood/city, and that the residents know them (ideally) - or at least that some do (i.e. they walk a beat some rather than only driving around in cars - which isolates them)... but, the idea that actually paying someone to be a cop or training and educating them in the profession leads to evil and abuse and that instead they need to be like amateur neighborhood watch people is foolhardy. Perhaps, by this logic, we should also fire all the teachers and leave it to average Joe neighbor who doesn't have any training in pedagogy or child psychology and development and knows nothing about their subject matter... and on top of that we shouldn't pay them. Because, you know, an education some training and $40,000 is going to corrupt them. Sicarius, Are you sure you're not a Maoist? I mean the first thoughts that come to mind are the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. Let's remove all expertise (eateth not the fruit of knowledge, perhaps) and put people in positions that they are unfamiliar with. Oh yeah, Pol Pot also tried this. What a load of crap. A cop's job is to uphold the law... and they are certainly trained in that. The two keys to keeping cops on the side of good, as I see it, are: 1) change the laws that fail to protect the weak and favor the powerful, 2) keep cops in communication and contact with their communities with community outreach and neighborhood beats and posts. Simple as that. And really, not any different than the formula to ensure that politicians or teachers or doctors or any other profession do what we need them to do: make sure that the expectations and reward system that we have in place for them rewards the right things, and keep them in contact with their customers (the citizenry).
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
03 Jul 11 UTC
also not unlike raising a child, coaching a team, or having a relationship... it's all the same stuff.
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
miscommnication.
by 'community' think more like neighborhood. extreme localization.
Americans in particular will have trouble with the concept of neighbors as part of 'their' community, that cultural aspect really losing out in.... I dont know really.. the 60's? 40's? I'm not old enough to remember and history books are suspect at times. damn AC for the death of front porches.

another miscommunication
I'm not saying the world would get any better if all the cops were gone *tomorrow*. But I think a world without police would be better.
Sicarius (673 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
I will have to answer dexter later
dexter morgan (225 D(S))
03 Jul 11 UTC
Sicarius, name a society without an effective police force and it will either be a place like Somalia - a place in chaos and violence run by rival gangs and religious factions, or it will be such a small community that it might as well be an extended family - such as aboriginal tribes. Another words, we don't have to wonder what a world would be like without police, we have examples. Also: the American frontier / "wild west".
manganese (100 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Sicarius:

There is no way I'm reading that, so I'll just say you are an idiot right away.

Don't like it? Call the police.
ScubaDan (490 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
07:16 PM Autumn, 2004: [Frozen-Antarctica]:I copy pasted as much of the convo here as I could to a thread on the forum, so we (I) dont clog up all the game space.

07:58 PM Autumn, 2004: [Brazil]:Haha I was going to say. Good forum topic, but too much for global!

08:02 PM Autumn, 2004: [Europe]:i cant believe you think the world would be better with no cops
what do you think the crime rate would be like?
what would happen after a murder or rape was committed?
how would the lives of drug dealers, rapists,murderers change if they found out there were no cops?

and.....on to the forum!

08:07 PM Autumn, 2004: [Brazil]:Wow FA that's one extreme muddafukkin viewpoint. I'm sure the Romans would have been better without a law-keeping force too.

08:12 PM Autumn, 2004: [Europe]:lol...better with no cops!?
lmfao till it hurts
PLEASE think about what the world would be like with no cops.
you dont need to post, but please actually think

08:20 PM Autumn, 2004: [Frozen-Antarctica]:I have thought about it. Very hard. not to be condescending, but I can bet I have spent significantly more time thinking about what the world would be like without cops, than you have thinking about why we need them in the first place.

oh and btw brazil, I hate the military too.

08:26 PM Autumn, 2004: [Brazil]:That's cool so do I. While I find police necessary for maintaining law and order, I think militaries suck. I feel guilty about the US one because I think centuries from now we'll be remembered as an evil empire, which isn't far from the truth given how politically and economically motivated our wars are. Or maybe we'll have a good PR machine, like Europe's, and still be telling bullshit about spreading freedom and whatnot.


36 replies
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
30 Jun 11 UTC
This Time On Philosophy Weekly: Dawkins, Hitchens, and The New Atheists Get Heir Turn
I'm going to try something different with this week's go-around, as I think a few people believe me to be overly-agressive in pushing my opinions and also because this is a topic I've put off doing for a while now, as not a fan of the New Atheist movement, but not knowledgable enough about the particulars to try and tackle it. So, I aim to be more the receiver here, and I ask two questions, both inside--and I'll get my education from you all. ;)
146 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
27 Jun 11 UTC
It's only a theory...
see inside...
72 replies
Open
manganese (100 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
Pet peeves
A thread where you can voice what annoys you with Webdip games.
29 replies
Open
Onar (131 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
New Feature
So... what does the mute player function do? And how long has it been there?
4 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
29 Jun 11 UTC
work less party
http://worklessparty.org

26 replies
Open
☺ (1304 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Live gunboat-105 EOG
25 replies
Open
kestasjk (64 DMod(P))
02 Jul 11 UTC
webDip 1.01, user muting
Details on the new feature and version 1.01 inside
54 replies
Open
♞ (100 D)
29 Jun 11 UTC
Neigh
Neigh
91 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
01 Jul 11 UTC
Trip the light fantastic
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=62829
50 D, 24 hours, points per center, 10 days to join
4 replies
Open
mr_brown (302 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Games not being processed?
Is the server down again? One of my games is not being processed. gameID=60766

Anyone else get weird things happening?
3 replies
Open
deathbed (410 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
join now
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=62827
0 replies
Open
☺ (1304 D)
29 Jun 11 UTC
Tettleton's Corner
"Actually I would be perfectly content to post my thoughts in a thread that is completely ignored by anyone and everyone."

I invite you to never comment outside of this thread. Everyone else: Move along, nothing to see here.
39 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Bug maybe?
Hey uh.... is it a bug that PE and WoY are shown as no longer in CD? Or are they actually not in CD? Can I get a second opinion? ID: 62827
2 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
02 Jul 11 UTC
Kids...
I hate the way that they get really quiet when you're putting in your diplomacy moves and when you get up to check on them (because quiet kids are synonymous with kids getting into trouble) and you find them throwing things into the toilet.

Yesterday I woke up after hearing the kids play in their room at 5:30 to find that one of them took off their diaper and thought it was a novel idea to do various things with their poop and top it off by peeing on his crib.
4 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
02 Jul 11 UTC
How taxes relate to winning in sports
How do NBA teams in a high tax environment compare to ones in a low tax environment in the 2010-2011 season.
5 replies
Open
Cachimbo (1181 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
Where my ratings at???
C'mon Ghost! It's July 2nd already!!!
6 replies
Open
Leif_Syverson (271 D)
01 Jul 11 UTC
Stupid parking enforcement.
Story to follow..
34 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Jul 11 UTC
Best pick up line I've ever ever seen
"If I were to ask you for sex, would your answer be the same as the answer to this question?"
46 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
I know this HAS to have been asked before, but...
I joined a gunboat game in place of a cheater who was banned in S01. The message saying the cheater was banned can't be read, so I get the notification at the top. My OCD senses are tingling. Is there any recourse for this interesting situation?
0 replies
Open
Ulysses (724 D)
26 Jun 11 UTC
CHINA will overtake the US in military power within the next three years (FACTS INSIDE)
See below
100 replies
Open
iotivedo (100 D)
02 Jul 11 UTC
Installation error
Hello, I'm a new webDiplomacy user, I installed the script on my server and I got this: http://playthegames.org/diplomacy/
Any Help? thx
2 replies
Open
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