I don't think virginity is anything special. It is sex that is sacred, and the entire concept that we need to safeguard virginity boils down to the idea that we should reserve our sexuality for people and relationships that deserve it.

Far as that goes, the first isn't any different than the thousandth.

Sex is as sacred as feeding or breathing is sacred. I never heard of anyone bragging about not eating ever (and surviving it).
So, virginity is just a state of insatiated hunger.

I think it's less important to talk about whether or not virginity is "special," and more important to talk frankly about what "virginity" is.

Very simply, it's having not had sex. "Sex," however, includes all types of sex, including but not limited to oral, anal, and manual--and of course "PIV" sex.

Most youngsters disagree with the idea that oral sex is sex, because they like to think of themselves as virgins even after having participated in such an act. However, oral sex counts, as do many other types of non-PIV sex.

Korimyr is clearly a man. My wife was a virgin and lost it on our wedding night. Trust me, the very first time for here was VERY different than all the times since.

And Cill clinton did not lie when he said he didn't have sex with Monica. They legal definition of sex as laid out by the investigative committee was vaginal intercourse. If congress said that sex requires vaginal intercourse, then it must and that means oral or anal sex isn't actually sex.

congress has the last word on the definition of sex? LOL

so by definition any gay guy or lesbian gal who hasn't had penile-vaginal intercourse is a virgin? the religious right out to love the gays for upholding the sacred nature of virginity!

That's why I said that. Unfortunately my dry wit is lost in web translations. Of course, vaginal virginity is very clearly different from every other time after that. It involves pain and bloodshed for the woman.

that's not necessarily always the case.

@Dunecate - How exactly do you dismiss the distinction that oral sex is not sex as being just the result of some universal desire for duplicity on the part of "youngsters", and then declare (without apparent justification) that the definition of "sex" is actually the broadest possible interpretation?

I mean, arguably, its just an issue of semantics (there are clearly different acts, and which ones can be described by the word 'sex' is a matter of arbitrary choice) and insofar as that is concerned, words should be as reasonably precise as possible - i.e., that "sex" should be limited to PIV (or in the case of homosexuals, equivalent) intercourse. For heterosexuals, at least, it seems right to limit it to the activities that barring birth control or infertility, could impregnate a woman.

This is more or less the case in practice, as well. If a woman blows you, it would be odd to say "I had sex with her". That statement implies intercourse.

I like to think of people having different types of virginity for each and every form of intercourse. It complicates matters a little, but at the same time, eliminates a few problems.

"It involves pain and bloodshed for the woman."

I guess I've been doing it wrong.

Yeah, I mean, the 'pain and bloodshed', apparently the bloodshed, is pretty contingent on her not having had a number of other experiences that could avoid that issue. Horseback riding, penetration by manual devices, etc.

Though Draugnar, since your wife lost it on your wedding night, I assume her morality was such that she wouldn't be playing around with anything you'd buy at an adult store.

I've had 9 vigins and only two bled

*viRgins*

Yeah, they don't always.

Though I feel like if we continue a discussion of the specific consequences of a woman having her hymen torn to shreds, somebody is going to start complaining that there are CHILDREN ON THIS SITE.

So, uh, Sicarius - why so many virgins? I made general policy against it after three. Seems as if the stereotypical, but more or less true emotional attachment thereafter isn't worth it.

WHO WILL THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?

Emotional attachment is fun. Think of it like you're playing to stab them. : )

Heartless Onar.

Invictus, great post! XD

Dunecat, I would definitely say oral sex does not count toward the loss of virginity, and I assure you that in many cases it is not because people want to be virgins... Most people my age would agree that vaginal (or anal) intercourse is the standard for virginity. I know a lot of people both female and male who have given and/or received oral and definitely consider themselves virgins despite that they really don't want to be virgins. Virginity isn't a trophy any more, it's quite the opposite.


Voltaire

"It is an infantile superstition of the human spirit that virginity would be thought a virtue and not the barrier that separates ignorance from knowledge" - Voltaire

I agree with that Voltaire quote.
The seeking of knowledge is the embetterment of all our souls.

Well, anyway, since Adam & Eve f**ked under that apple tree, there's no real virgins anymore :)

Of my first four relationships, the one where I technically lost my virginity (the third relationship of the four) feels to me to be the least significant and earth moving...

While first PIV intercourse is a milestone for most heterosexuals (I guess)... it was pretty unimportant for me (I'm also heterosexual). (But then I had the "advantage" of seeing it in stark relief by itself... devoid of any meaning beyond the mechanics of it). Virginity is a state of mind and heart... and people can lose it (i.e. gain knowledge) in stages and in ways that have nothing to do with PIV intercourse.

Ahhhh, the dusty old brown sofa in my parent's basement.

How I miss that couch.

Now it's become like Flight of the Conchords "It's Business Time" for Mrs. mapleleaf and I.

Still, I wouldn't trade it.

@ the rat

"Far as that goes, the first isn't any different than the thousandth."

i was just thinking about how i completely disagree with this. though if may be true for some folks, i think depending on someone's level of experience (ie. is it their first or their thousandth) it is a really different experience and i think as i have both gotten older and had more experiences, i think it has really changed how i view sex of any sort.

> i.e., that "sex" should be limited to PIV (or in the case of homosexuals, equivalent) intercourse.

hahahh

> i think it has really changed how i view sex of any sort

please elaborate

What's the joke there, alamothe?