lol...I've seen this before. Aside from the fact that you could probably selectively edit something like this in any country to portray it as stupid, I think for the most part, this video isn't far from the truth. That being Americans are mostly stupid.

Who is to blame? I'm not sure you can blame one person. There is plenty of blame to spread around.

I think the bigger question is, Is this deliberate?

good old "Chaser's war on everything"
great australian tv show

I think a big part of the problem is the perspective we have... Diplomacy is a pretty intelligent game, as such I believe that almost everyone on this site is of well above average intelligence (with a few exceptions). The threads on the forum show that the members of the site pay attention to politics, economy, world events, etc. which is not something the average person doesn't need to follow. You can find someone in any country who doesn't know who Tony Blair is, or I guess doesn't know what a triangle is.

I'm also pretty sure one of those questions got the right answer though and they said it was wrong anyway. The countries in the Axis of Evil were New York, California, Florida, and Mississippi right? Or did he miss one?

Pointing out a couple of stupid people isn't an indictment of education. It is a statement that some people are stupid.

However, statistics show that the education system in the US is still a huge problem. Particularily because inner-city schools suck, and those are the kids that need the schools the most.

I know, this is just fun, but, it is a common concept among Europeans that Americans are "stupid" or at least, ignorant...

I think it is sad.

Denzel are you from Europe? Just curious if this concept was firsthand, or perceived.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to attend a Judo-wrestling tourney is Hiroshima.

whats sad?the european stereotype?

I'll tell you who to blame. It's the Department of Education for existing. Billions of dollars have to be funneled through Washington bureaucrats before they even come close to a classroom.

I should know, I'm from Illinois and we're right behind Mississippi in terms of education funding. I turned out fine, but it's never good to be by Mississippi on any kind of list.

I'm from Illinois too (good ol Champaign) and I was lucky enough that one of the top high schools in the nation was right down the street from me, but it was horribly underfunded, as were most of the other schools in the area. Aside from my former high school the quality of education in the area has been tanking.

Way to go Invictus for being anti-authoritarian! You should check your resources as your information is not correct.

You can party blame the parents. Every time a tax raise tries to pass for schools, parents pitch a fit. Chicago teachers are payed well, but for the most part its a monetarily starved field. You can blame Washington for choosing to put trillions of dollars toward various wars and cutting education services. You can blame Capital Hill for passing laws like NCLB and then not funding them. You can blame the fact that our education system is based upon a successful 1950s model that just doesn't work today.

But to just up and blame the Dept. of Ed. for its very existence is simply inflamitory. LAY OF THE RUSH LIMBAUGH!!! lol

I think the problem is that a lot of U.S. Americans don't have maps.

Lay of the Rush Limbaugh? Do you mean off? I also like the idea of a "party blame."

I know that I never learned anything because of the Department of Education. I learned from good teachers. Money should go right to schools or at the very least right to states and not have a bloated layer of bureaucracy between students and the resources they need to learn.

Invictus, I agree with you, but I'm just curious how you expect money to go straight to schools without some kind of central organization (to put it mildly) occurring first.

I agree that schools need a hell of a lot more money. I also think that they need to stop cutting arts programs and science clubs, but that's just me I'm sure.

Well I think cardstacking has a lot to do with the video. =)
Also I find it a tad suspicious that they had maps where Australia represented who they said they would attack next... Especially for that France one. Were they really expecting that? And they had the map out before the guy answered that he thought they should attack France...

Anyway, Canadians also like to believe that we're smarter than Americans, or at least more worldly. Even though I've seen statistics that show that Americans have an extremely small advantage over us Canadians in terms of average IQ. That said, you can watch some other glories of cardstacking like "Talking to Americans", a regular skit done by Rick Mercer for 22 Minutes up here in Canada. You might actually have to be Canadian to get a lot of his references to Canadian politics. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFQlIUWOm1A

Although, I think a lot of it has to do with where you are in the world... America > Canada so they don't really care about us, while we know so much more about them. But then on my travels to Australia I noticed that Canada > Australia, and at the same time they know a lot more about Canadian politics than I do about Australian politics.

Hahaha, I just realized that the link I posted has Mercer with Mike Huckabee pre-presidential nominee. =D

The money can just go as grants, divided fifty ways and dealt out by a skeleton crew of government accountants and clerks. The problem is the Department of Education does far more than hand out money to schools, and that's just wasteful.

Vouchers would be really good too.

They should be divided fifty ways taking into account population. Wyoming shouldn't get the same as California, of course.

Hahaha. I forgot how funny "Talking to Americans!" was... part 4 of my link also has a funny appearance by a pre-President Bush. =D

Most privatisation schemes end up creating two-tier school systems. I don't think that helps anything.

I don't know about that IQ thing Chrisp, but I do know that we (being Canadians) consistently perform well on education studies falling behind just a few asian countries on math and science and second only to finland in the social sciences.

Invictus, you have once again swallowed whole the GOP party line... The Dept. of Education probably needs reform - but it is not the elephant in the room, so to speak... The federal government supplies around 8.5% of the public school system funds, according to a 2005 report by the National Center for Education Statistics. The remaining split between state and local governments averages 48.7 percent from states and 42.8 percent from local sources. However, the division varies widely. So - if there is significant waste, it follows that it is at the state and local levels primarily.

If I was to bet, I'd put the waste on the local sources. A lack of real accountability combined with generally less competent administrators often leads to that sort of thing.

Guys! YOUR INFO IS WAY OFF! This is not a critique, it is a statement of truth. Fedearl government only funds 8% of the US school you went to, and that is through NCLB compliance. The schools are funded primarily by first LOCAL, and then STATE taxes. The city in which you live has most of the juresdiction over its own school funding.

It has been proposed that the Federal goverment take more of a role in the school districts, but a HUGE number of people want taught what they want taught in their local schools. (This is where creationism in the schools gets really tricky.) And they are willing to deny funding before granting it. And, statistically, funding tends to go for new football jerseys before it goes for salary increases for teachers, new books.

I totally agree. We need art and music teachers. I think we should have whole new way of going about it that invites children to have a stake in, a major say in, and be an integral part of their education: what they learn and what they get out of it. Invictus, I would tell you that you didn't learn anything because you didn't apply yourself and use the resources at your disposal, but I would be very wrong in saying so. The issue is much more complex than that.

Until then, if you want better education... FUND THE SCHOOLS!!!! It's not the Dept. of Ed's fault when a governement spends $900 billion to bail out GM while the schools are in a state of virtual crisis.

Re: IQ - I saw a study that showed that IQ has increased something like 10% in the last 50 years in the U.S. (obviously the average is still 100 - by definition... but an average IQ person now would have scored significantly higher relative to the same age group 50 years ago)... of course this tells us primarily that IQ is a poor measure of ability - it is more a measure of education (and apparently education in the US has improved - who would have thunk it?)... the other thing it might suggest is improvements in health... no lead paint, better nutrition, etc. that gives the current school age generation advantages over kids 50 years ago. Same study also showed a 30% improvement in African American children... again - better education, better health...

^ In the UK, we have a big gap between our under-educated and our hyper-educated. More people go to university in Britain than ever before, and the A-Levels (generally required for University entry) are broader and more knowledge intensive than ever. However, those who don't take well to the education system drop out at 16 and are, to some extent, an under-qualified underclass.

Slowly things are being done to fix this, but obviously more is needed. It makes the UN surveys interesting though - UK schools score quite low for most things, but then our Universities are world leaders (Cambridge is the world leader for producing scientific research, for example, just by sheer volume).

Ultimately, most MEDCs will have people like this, but it's the American stereotype and not ours.

TV oddly, has also been another IQ increaser. But there's a lot to that too. The IQ of women has increased, but it's considered that we've simply gotten better at testing IQ in a non-biased way more recently. Also, there have been more opportunities for women. Ethnic groups have experienced the same relationship between the betterment of non-biased test questions and the increase of formalized education. We've done a pretty good job since 1950, but we can do better.

@Invictus... the issue isn't party lines. The issue is political entertainers and professional manipulaters, like Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Al Franken, Anne Coulter, Daily, Colbert, O'Reilly, Fox News. Ted Kennedy first proposed NCLB, though it's been a Repubican Hallmark, and it's been notoriously underfunded (breaking a lot of promises in the bargain). This goes way beyond party.

great conversation - I'd like to hop in if y'all dont mind.

first - smart and 'educated' are different. one is a measure of innate ability 'to learn' while the other is a measure of ignorance vs being informed. the problem in the US is not stupidity. its ignorance.

second - thank you for the stats on Dept of Ed. invictus is, in my opinion, wrong in his analysis that this is the fault of the federal government or the department of education. at least his line about the money is just not based on fact or reality - just perception (and dare I say ignorance of those facts - not being stupid)

third - but this issue of local control of education is in fact one of the causes of our ignorance-gap here in the US. In fact, the US Constitution made Education a state issue as part of the compromises in the Continental Congress. In most western European countries and Japan (with higher ranking than the US) Education is federated (centrally controlled) - but I'm not sure about Canada. now this has both positive and negative aspects. some of the positive elements are that state-level programs become incubators for good ideas and the education system can not be used for indoctrination etc.... but the negatives are important too: standards vary so Mississippi schools might not even teach Calculus while California schools might require it; funding levels vary widely, local control often leads to more corruption and waste (I dont have numbers - but you can find this easily - it IS a fact); etc etc.

fourth - current funding for education comes from property taxes, so obviously rich areas with high property values have better schools - so there is no equality of opportunity. even smart kids, unlucky to be born in poor areas, become ignorant.

fifth - this might be more controversial - The US education system frowns on (and I think makes illegal) "tracking". which is when you split up kids (usually HS but in some countries even earlier) into 'career tracks'... there are issues with doing this - but I personally think it would lead to a better and more relevant/directed education system.



lastly and maybe most importantly - its the American culture.

I cant tell you why - maybe politicians, maybe hollywood, maybe the money-is-the-best-measure-of-success-in-life philosophy that has dominated American socio-political life for 30+ years.... but in American culture - being smart is "Geeky", "Nerdy", and "uncool"... while being ignorant is "cool", "normal", and very cool.

Jocks and Cheerleaders (atheletes and actors) are rewarded and regailed in their schools and communities while the smart kids are viewed as abnormal.

I mean in what other country is being an "elite" or "elitist" a bad thing? in what country is being "average" and "normal" a good thing for a politician? Joe the Plumber????? Sarah Palin???? hell... George W BUSH....

like I said - the culture rewards ignorance...


and in my opinion - that is the biggest reason for the failure of our 'education system'... its the culture not the system.

what?? no one cares about education anymore?

I doubt I was THAT convincing that you all decided to just agree with me 8-)

Thank you Babak. I'll comment at a future date. Ignorance is always a good label when something as important as education is placed behind sports stadiums and . In the 1950's and through the 1960's the US had the number 1 education system in the world, meaning we skill tested at higher levels than any other country. In our own Great Leap Forward, J.F. Kennedy doubled the amount spent on education, increasing teacher salaries, and we reaped the rewards. The Department of Education is in charge of monitoring schools for almost 400 million people in this nation, and from their statistics, we are now rated 19th in the world. Simply put, other nations have made education a higher priority than have we Americans. But there's more to it than that, also. The American system has the most widely dispersed ethnic foundation compared with any other nation. Every language is spoken here in large numbers, but most of the teachers speak English as a first language, with a few exceptions. Teachers need higher education to pass certification standards, and yet those same standards exclude those community members who would otherwise teach their children to interact in American culture. The US Department of Education has continually pushed forward in its attempts to monitor the schools and create standards for one of the largest and maybe the most culturally diverse nation on Earth. Yes it is all bureaucracy, but those billions give special education students a chance at a Free and Appropriate Public Education, and give money to those with physical disabilities to attend school. If you believe in equality at all, you have to believe in the public schools.

You want good schools? Don't spend $800 million on Minnesota sports stadiums... buy schools copper pipes so that kids don't have to drink polluted water.

Fund it.

You want to help the school? Fund it.

*Walks in* I don't believe that OP's video is legit. *walks out*

It's the unenlightenment folks, we have forgotten the vital difference between training and education.

Many courses of study in the UK are now increasingly tailored to churn out suitable candidates for the "jobs of the future". Education should be about equipping children and young adults to make the most of their potential, not preparing the next batch of Biology Graduate battery farmed call centre operatives.

There is a shortage of people skilled in trades, but don't underestimate the importance of preparing for the jobs of the future. This is exactly equipping young adults to make the most of their potential. There's far more emphasis on learning the ability to learn than learning specific knowledge nowadays because we don't exactly know what the jobs of the future will entail. They are not at all "tailored" or preparing for any specific technofuture job. The idea is that you can take someone with a university degree and put them to work in most any job (other than those requiring further education) and they will quickly learn and adapt.

There does exist a sense of anti-intellectualism is certain places. When I lived in Newfoundland, intelligence was highly praised and encouraged with enrichment programs and the general culture. I moved to Winnipeg later and found an entirely different atmosphere. I found the material incredibly unstimulating and I felt as if being intelligent was seen as some strange quirk. I actually read books every day during class, completely ignoring the teacher, to the point that my teachers had an intervention on my reading! University is a much more nurturing environment for intelligence.

Babak, I think the idea is that students will naturally track themselves if you give them choices in terms of which courses they can take. The idea is that they will sort themselves based on strength naturally which is supposed to be effective. Tracking may not be as effective because it's difficult to create a large system that accurately assesses what track a student should take based on their strengths. However... you do find that with self-tracking you'll find a disproportionate number of students tracking themselves toward say, Medical School when only a tenth of them will attain that. Leaving 90% of these students with various biology oriented degrees... which is not exactly efficient.

Babak hit the nail on the head with most of his points, but I would like to add a couple others.

The U.S. education system does not rank well compared to some other systems in Europe and Asia but one thing you have to remember is that we try to educate every student to succeed and go to college. We make every accomodation for students with special needs. Other countries do not.

Another point is our current obsession with testing. NCLB is causing many problems not the least of which is that the teacher's main concern is now making sure students can pass standardized tests. This Saturday at the school I work at, there is a practice SAT. The SAT for those who do not know, is an assessment of a persons preparedness for college. We have a high school course called SAT prep. So we are preparing kids to score well on this test. This is a huge waste of time and resources. Teaching to the test not only happens in high schools but also everywhere from grades 3-8, thanks to NCLB.

Teaching is a bit of an art. The more creative the teacher is, the better. But since some students don't excel, all schools and students must be subjected to continuous testing. Therefore, teachers do not have the time to be creative.

The curriculum in the US is also very broad. Consequently, the depth of knowledge about a particular topic tends to be lacking. That is a big problem. One of things that is going to correct that and it is starting to happen is the Internet. People are now able to find in depth information about any particular interest on the Internet. And even more important, we can discuss and collaborate about a topic online as well, much as we are doing now. Wikis and blogs are the salvation of education. Wait and see. :)

I'm in a school psych program, tullman, and the point of NCLB and other standardizations is to take your creativity away. The more the teacher "shoots from the hip" the less in control the school board is of their students and the education process. Research is showing that certain ways of teaching are better than others, and the teachers will have to follow. You won't have a choice. The next phase of things are nation-wide curricula. When there is a classroom problem, there will be a procedure to be carried through, as planned by your school district within the curricula developed by your school district. I hope you are right about blogs, but the current trend is standardization and statistical maximization, and I'm afraid that blogs won't be standardized enough for the process. Not to mention that schools will ALL have to have computers to do it, and no state will pay for it. On the forefront right now is Response to Intervention and Curriculum Based Measurement, regarding both of which I have mixed feelings.

I agree that there are "best practices" in teaching but they certainly vary by students' age, subject, and location. I'm pretty sure I teach differently than someone teaching elementary school science in Bushwick, Brooklyn or a middle school ESL teacher in Houston, Texas. But y'all want us all to teach it the same?

Did you know that public school teachers are the nation's best trained? College professors require no formal training in teaching yet nobody questions their methods.

Public schools fail when their community is failing. Bad schools are are a bi-product of communities in which their are many socio-economic difficulties.

Communities in which parents are possitive influences who emphasise education in the home are also those that do well in tests. Therefore those are the good schools?

tullman, I find my college professors to be terrible teachers (mostly) compared to my high school teachers. It's because they're not really teaching you, they're just shooting information at you and you have to teach yourself.

I always find it funny the amount of preparation that goes into the SAT. Wasn't the SAT designed so that studying did little to improve your score because it's supposed to be a measure of "intelligence"? I took it for fun despite being Canadian, and I didn't prepare for it except the night before, and other than the fact I didn't know there was an essay (D'oh!), I don't know how much better I would have done if I had studied a week, a month, or a year in advance.

Also, despite that there's an atmosphere of anti-intellectualism, I think that in the education system there definitely exists a bias against creativity and more in favour of "intelligence". The uncountable hamburger-style essays we had to write and all the template-style math questions we had to answer...

Thanks for your mail, and I'm totally on your side. I love the creativity and passion the public school teachers bring the schools. Yes, your curriculum will be different than another area's, grade's, and it will be determined by your state. It's still some time out, yet, but it is coming.

I hear you on the public school/community relationship. I would like to see more community involvement in the schools, but that means a step-back for standardization, so is unlikely to happen.

We've been learning that good schools simply are better funded than other schools. Inner City, failing schools that are given high-tech computer systems in classrooms (as you were talking about blogging earlier) make radical turn-abouts in small time-spans. Also, it's about parental support as you suggest.

Although teachers are highly trained, more training is on the way. Chicago Public is considering year-round schooling, and Minneapolis wants to expand time-in-school by 2 weeks. Salary would also increase for the increased time. Schools in the near future will be requiring higher degrees to enter psych and counseling (an Ed. S.) rather than just a master's (this happens next year at my school next year). School Psychs in the Phoenix, Arizona area are currently proscribing psychotropic meds, like Ritalin and Prozac. While the Dept. of Ed wants this change, the ACA is pitching a fit about it. Teachers will undergo more training in the future, not less.

Planning is a fickle thing, and we'll see what happens and doesn't.

As a psych in training and former autism one-on-one aide, I'm more interested in teachers than in tests. So I'm curious, what is your experience in the classroom right now? What are the issues you run into most, and what works best for you?