Cyrus is right, is the sidewalk private property?

...it's either that or you tie them down and vaccinate them....

King -- you own the responsibility for your sidewalk. it's on your property, but there is a public easement or some shit like that.

I like to shovel my sidewalk, but them insist that my dogs do their business on my clean sidewalk....heh heh heh....no law against dog shit on my sidewalk...that'll teach those damned runners...

All I'm saying 2WL, you could sue the city and make a lot of money doing it.

Are you responsible for your sidewalk if it is damaged? If yes, great. If not, why is snowfall any different?

Yes. Because its so much fucking easier if everyone shovels their 20 foot stretch of sidewalk instead of having the city shovel every sidewalk there is instead of focusing on making the roads safe. Its about efficiency

What in the case of a disabled/elderly person unable to shovel?

I'd they repave the street in front of you're house you have to pay for it. So yes, you own your public access side walk.

I don't know what the the law is in other countries, or what it is state-by-state, but the sidewalk that separates private property from the street is public property and therefore this law can't be implemented. People should shovel "their" sidewalks for the sake of common decency but it shouldn't be law.

Yoyo - in every city I've ever been to, businesses and homes have to shovel the sidewalks infront of them by law.

And usually if its an elderly person your neighbors do it for you. The world isn't made up of selfish assholes. My family has taken care of our neighbor's house when it snows for years.

@krellin if you dig a hole in the pavement of the sidewalk, you have to pay a fine to the government for vandalism. So you don't own it.

@gold Is that so? Cool, I would've never known. In Chicago, if there is such law, isn't enforced at the slightest. At least not for homes.

Yeah I think this is a pretty common rule

I'm all for such a law. Sidewalks are a four-season facility, and a homeowner has an implicit moral responsibility

...to maintain his/her own property, to include the city's sidewalk.

Interesting. Did not know this. Does that mean I'm responsible for shoveling the sidewalk outside of my window on campus? It hasn't been shoveled yet. There's just 20 inches of snow sitting there and campus facility management is only doing the parking lots because we don't pay enough for this place as is I guess...

Shoveling one's sidewalk is a "good person" task. It should get done regardless of whether or not it is mandated by a government entity. Just do it to *not* be a dick and score a handful of karma points.

In your case bo_sox48, you have no such obligation, but your facilities services people do.

Oh, I know they do. I'm sure they'll get around to it once it's halfway melted come April.

(They also shut my building's water off for three days. That was an adventure - a smelly one.)

@ bo_sox48

If you're in a private school with those kind of problems, then you are officially paying WAY too much for college.

Oh, I know. I'm probably transferring at the end of next year. I just want to get my religion minor first since the way they have it set up here allows me to get it by the end of my second year, and the place I want to go requires 12 transferable credit hours and I only have eight so far.

I've never lived in a city where that wasn't the case. It makes a lot of sense.

In the UK the sidewalks (we call them "pavements") in most residential areas are neither the responsibility of the local government, *nor* the homeowner.

In some areas the sidewalks are "adopted" by the local Council, which then takes responsibility for them, including things like snow clearance.

In some areas (on a housing development by housing development basis) the sidewalk is specifically a part of your property - although (as in the scenarios set out above for the USA) a lot of homeowners in such streets are unaware of this.

In a surprisingly high proportion of streets, however, the sidewalks remain the residual property of the developer which built the houses in the first place.

In my particular case, for example, I live in terraced street.

The pavement to the front of my house (between my front garden and the public road in front of my house) belongs to the local Council, because it is an adopted highway. I have no responsibility to maintain it (and I am prohibited from placing anything on it that would block it).

The pavement to the rear of my house (between my back yard and the narrow lane between the back of my street, and the back of the next street) is unadopted, so does not belong to the Council. It does not belong to me either, and my solicitor has established that it is not my responsibility.

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/liability-accidents-sidewalks.html

there is your answer

Shovel all that snow out into the street to block off your neighbors' cars when they aren't looking. You get to do your civic duty and get back at anyone you hate.

There are several arguments to be made,

(1) Where I live the snow if any shovels itself away (by a process called melting)

(2) Where I come from, pavements are part of the bordering estates but with restricted exercise of ownership including responsibility for maintenance. Owners are encouraged to subsidiarily take these responsibilities nonetheless. Esp. in upper class residential areas this lead to very beautiful pavements.

(3) Shoveling snow understood as keeping the pavement safe for use is responsibility of the residents (not owners!) as they are the ones that take the lion share of usage. In areas where this is not the case as well as roads (because they are more labour intensive) it is the communal entity that does the job.

(4) in general, property does not only entail rights, but also of duties. The fundamental principle here is that property is assured by the community (without community there is no property).

(points (2) to (4) apply to where I currently live as well.)

This legal basis doesn't need morality, so assholing is not a viable option. Moral considerations just make the more fun (as does Randomizer's idea, I guess). And never forget, the snow you shovel, the better you're prepared for a snowball battle (or snow sculpturing).

10 ppl died in Cook County solving This Wend

I know at least in the US, 33 feet from the center of the road is considered government property. Pretty sure most sidewalks fall into this... Now, I am all for common decency and doing it without requirement, but is it private or not? If it is private, don't tell me what to do on my own lawn. If it isn't, I shouldn't have to take care of public property.

Where on earth did you hear that, KC? That's pretty dead wrong. I think most of my yard and several of my neighbors garages would then be government property.

At least in MI, my home state, 33 feet from the center of the road in either direction is Road Commissioning "right of way" which basically means they can do whatever the hell they want including chopping down trees and enlarging the road.

Right, so that's a easement on the land. But they don't own the land itself.

No, not legally "own it." But you can't really do anything in it. You can't build a fence there, you can't keep people out, the government can enlarge its roads to that limit, etc.

Basically you pay taxes on it, mow the lawn, and get a mailbox there.

^There is your answer to the question :) It's a Private-Public-Partnership!

only turned head down.

We get to pay for it and take care of it, and the public gets to use it! Yay!

You *are* the public, dumbass.

"We the people", right?

33 feet from the center of the road is my kitchen, KC. I'd love if you linked that claim.

@ 2WL: It appears to be a Michigan thing. It is referenced by numerous public highways departments in that state, I've just had a look.

Examples:

1. The County Road Association of Michigan refer to the 33 feet rule on their website, here: http://www.micountyroads.org/lrfaq.php

2. The roads department of Calhoun County, Michigan also mentions it:
http://www.calhouncountyroads.com/about/services/road-right-of-way-permits/

3. Here it is on the website of the Road Commission in Berien County, Michigan:
http://bcroad.org/right%20of%20way.html

4. Another Michigan County: http://www.newaygoroads.org/FAQ.htm

All of the relevant google results appear to refer to authorities in Michigan.

@goldfinger -

I actually believe its the exact opposite, at least where I live. I'll check my plat of survey when I get home later, but I'm pretty certain my property line ends at the sidewalk, which means, if anything, we have an easement from the city to put a driveway through it.

As a side note, I have a utility easement in my back yard that shows up on my survey, so if the sidewalk and parkway in front of my house are an easement to the city, then it should show up like the utility one. However, I'm fairly positive the city Right of Way is owned by the city and its just an understood part of owning the home that we are to take care of it.

"The width of the road right of way can vary a great deal."

I suppose that's what is behind differences. Right of Way entails jurisdiction not property (somewhat like a tenant has jurisdiction, a landlord has the property rights). Just as the division of responsibility between landlord and tenant there is a division of responsibility between state and property holder.

Further, the extent of the right of way depends on several factors. If you live in an area where buildings are inside the 10m range, the right of way will not apply to your kitchen. The Rule of Law further guarantees, these exemptions won't be revoked for existing buildings. (be careful with demolition and reconstruction – if the building is removed and a new building to build in its stead, the full range might apply). The same goes for special exemptions like gardens etc.

Interesting, drano. Is there a little bit of grass between your sidewalk and the road? My neighborhood doesn't have sidewalks, so I can't quite relate.

There is goldfinger. Its probably about 10 feet wide. So with a 4 foot sidewalk, about 10 foot of grass, and then another 2 foot of concrete (where people place their garbage bins for pickup) it makes about 16 feet from the curb to the far side of the sidewalk, leaving 17 feet until center of street (my town uses the 66 foot rule, or at least the ordinances say we do), which makes for a total street width of 34 feet. Which sounds fairly reasonable to me. Im tempted to measure when I get home now.