Alright, first off, it's not just working on the railroad, he was the engineering manager, which sounds like a mid to upper tier position. And secondly, it seems it was former union people who were consulting outside of their union roles that worked the system. And thirdly, since it was illegal, I mean, how can you damn the system for a few people doing illegal actions? We're not getting rid of the Presidency because Nixon did illegal actions (as the least controversial name I could put forth).

I agree with you about being anti-union in most cases, but there are a lot more scandals like this in the corporate world then in the union world...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pensions-gannon-20110922,0,913026.story

Admittedly this is Chicago, where this stuff is expected and union bosses and political leaders are wedded. Sigh.

@ SD - Alright, so maybe the guy who is being charged is a mid to upper tier position, but he said that he helped at least 700 others get these benefits. I doubt there are 700 mid to upper level positions on such a small railroad. As to the second point, if there wasn't a system, then there would be nothing to work. Finally, while you can't damn the system for a few people (say NYPD for the few officers just convicted of gun running), the sheer volume here - in the hundreds - for an organization that employs only a few thousand (I actually couldn't find the numbers of employment, since it is so intwined with the MTA).

And the size of their pension is more than most people make - its disgusting. Just like teachers where I'm from retire with 75% pay for life. That on top of a severance package. Its just absurd what the public sector unions are doing to reap all they can from the people. I know corporate scandals are worse, but that's not an excuse to ignore these things.

I don't see you whining about CEO pensions, or the fact that management blatantly stole pensions they forced their employees to pay into. Ellen Schultz has documented all of this. Nope, keep attacking workers and pretending that they're the problem.

http://www.salon.com/2011/09/17/retirement_heist_interview/

The point is, that what the person did is illegal, and whether one person or 700 did it, it's illegal and thus outside the bounds, and not part of what the union was doing at the time. And if you think all 700 people were making as much as the one guy's stated amount, you'd be decidedly wrong. Also, who's the real breadwinners here? Look at what the doctors who were helping them scam were clearing. There's the real money.

Right, because workers already have huge pensions, and it is not as if the costs of living rise when you age.

what does this have to do with unions exactly? it sounds like it involved some corrupt doctors and workers exploiting a government run (and paid for) system.

"...there are a lot more scandals like this in the corporate world then in the union world... " AHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA!!! Oh my God...let me catch my breath. WHEW! OK...scandals in the Union world....whoa boy...

Yeah, like Unions don't REGULARLY defend their workers that violate work rules, come in drunk/stoned, commit illegal activity, etc....and yet the union defends them. THAT is scandalous. Union workers in Detroit have been regularly vieo-taped drinking and smoking pot at lunch by local news programs before going back to work....and, of course, the Union defends them to the end.

The idea that there is no scandal in the union world is insane. Union mechanics in Detroit are currently on a work "slow down" and won't repair the public buses, such that there are over 200 buses out of service and people....including school children...are waiting *hours* for bus service all because --- in a city that is DESPERATELY broke --- the union workers won't take concessions. So, these good, salt-of-the-earth union thugs would rather see school children standing for hours on a street corenr waiting for a bus and getting to school late than doing their jobs and bargaining in good faith.

Fuck union workers.

Fuck you.

lol.

Tsk tsk Putin. Once again you have no argument to counter REALITY. Moron.

Alright, so maybe I hijacked this a little to turn it into a rant against unions, but still I don't see why they can be paid so damn much! Most people out there, who work in jobs that are just as difficult - if not more - have no pensions to fall back on and only survive on what they save themselves. Why should these grunts get a cushy retirement of tens of thousands a year when they've done nothing more than the non-unionized worker to earn it?

The reason why the middle class is shrinking is that unions have historically overinflated wages of production workers, causing American workers and products to be more expensive than those from other countries. This wasn't a problem while we were the only major industrialized nation, but now other countries are able to produce the same things that we can, and cheaper too, so the world chooses to buy from places other than here.

If any person on the planet is given a choice between being paid more and being paid less, they will choose being paid more. And the average American CEO makes about 343 times more than his average worker, which is one of the highest rates in the world. In Europe, it's about 25 times more. If you want to talk about driving up the average prices, don't you think that glut at the top is just as if not more responsible for it, especially if you consider the production employees overpaid?

I agree with you, SD - please don't get me wrong on that. I'm firmly with JP Morgan, who said he would never invest in a company whose top executive was paid 20x more than its lowest worker. I mean, maybe that doesn't have to be exactly the case now, but I don't see the point of CEO's earning more than a million a year....that's a bit too much. Still, that would probably average out to be 50x the rate of the average worker....7x less than the figure you stated. So yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm merely pointing out the problem isn't exclusively with executives

Well, the phrase is "Lead by example." If your leader is taking far far more than he by any right should, doesn't that give the example that overreaching what is reasonable is valued by the culture? Greed, for lack of a better term, is good?

Also, generally, when these lower level production employees run a scam, like this one, some people go to jail, a few million are lost, and life moves on. When CEO's do it, millions of people can lose their jobs (like Enron for instance), and a ripple effect happens through the economy. Sure, I have a hangnail, better get that addressed before this sucking chest wound.

All valid points SD, and I agree with all of them. The CEO sets the standard for the whole culture of the company, and thus his actions have more of an impact than any single employee's.

@SD
>:O
/Word/!!!! Not term, word!!
+1 overall though ;)

oh no! smoking pot on your lunch break??? this must be the end!!! arrrrgggghhhhh!!!!