I make a judgement based on the fact that I am not religious, so I clump all religions under one catagory, that I like to call "religion." However, it is unfair to put one above another. Saying one is farfetched because some "guy" made it up does not make sense. How do you believe Christianity came into existance, or Hinduism, Buddhism?

There's a difference between cults and religions. Scientology was made by L. Ron Hubbard to make money, while another recently created religion, Bahá'í, was founded by a sincere religious leader.

It's not fair to lump Jesus and Jim Jones in the same basket.

"It's not fair to lump Jesus and Jim Jones in the same basket."

Why? Because more people believe in Jesus?

I don't even feel like dignifying that with a response. If you really think that there's no difference between Jesus and Jim Jones or Jesus and the Heaven's Gate leaders or Moses and the leaders of the group which gassed the Tokyo subway or Muhammad and David Karesh then I'm not going to waste my time talking to you.

A cult is a religion by definition, just a religion with relatively few followers. Using it in the derogatory manner is entirely based on the perspective of the user.

People have a right to believe whatever they will whether it is Allah, Buddha, Jesus, a science fiction author, or a giant noodle. Do some religions have a stronger claim to legitimacy than others? Unequivocally yes.

A religion who's founder confided that he created it to make money certainly has a much weaker claim to absolute truth than others, but that doesn't mean that some people have found solace or answers from that construct.

"I don't even feel like dignifying that with a response. If you really think that there's no difference between Jesus and Jim Jones or Jesus and the Heaven's Gate leaders or Moses and the leaders of the group which gassed the Tokyo subway or Muhammad and David Karesh then I'm not going to waste my time talking to you."

Well, you dignified it anyway. And it's a completely valid point. In the arena in which we are discussing, I contest there is no difference. We are not discussing the merits, nor the purpose of the religion/cult, but rather their methodology.

It's obvious I've offended you, so I don't expect an intelligent response, but do try, will you?

"don't even feel like dignifying that with a response. If you really think that there's no difference between Jesus and Jim Jones or Jesus and the Heaven's Gate leaders or Moses and the leaders of the group which gassed the Tokyo subway or Muhammad and David Karesh then I'm not going to waste my time talking to you."

Ignorance at its finest. Hell, most of the problems in this world throughout the years have involved one of the three major religions. I don't see scientology causing death and predjudice.
You can believe in whatever you want. But the moment you think something is more probable (yeah, like Jesus, the white male, who was born from a virgin mother, preached socialism, was killed, then was ressurected because he was infact god makes sense.) Good thing Jesus' message of equality lived on to be the backbone of the major capitalistic countries on the Earth. That was Jesus' plan all along.

http://michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/those-you-your-way-church-morning-note-michael-moore

I think this letter relates to wooooo's post and I found it very interesting, even when I'm not a Christian myself.

xapi - just saw the movie tonight... I was floored... it was AMAZING!!!!! and I really hope that #1 - Obama sees it and #2 Every one of those damn Teabaggers see it. Michael Moore has entered into William Jennings Bryant level of historical relevance with this film. absolutely amazing. That bit about why Europeans have a more advanced form of Democracy was a hell of an epiphany for me as well (The Roosevelt film).

and to your point, yeah, the religious element threw ME for a loop since for once the proponents of religion actually made sense. methinks that the 'philosophical' elements (including morality by definition) of most religions are AWESOME and completely valid. its the ritualistic elements that are so ridiculous.

someone above asked why not be an atheist... I have good reason. my belief system is very rare, and I dare say if I delved into it in depth, many might think me a tad koo koo (excepting Draugnar of course, who stated his high opinion of me in an earlier thread).

here goes - the short version...

my hypothesis about the 'deity' factor or the universal force is that we do not exist in a 3 or 4 dimensional existence. our universe is actually FAR more complex than that and as science has proven, we have at minimum 11 and in theory 13 dimensions of existence.

these higher dimensions of existence allow for the possibility of what we in our 3 dimensional world would call 'omnipotence'... ie, sentient beings (forces) that can travel time, space, and alternate realities...

another words, i do believe it is highly probable, that there are forces (for lack of a better term) that exist in the 11th dimension (the same way that we humans exist in the 4th dimension) that can 'see' all alternate realities. ie, can 'know' what is in our individual futures. that can 'travel time' as we comprehend time. that can traverse a multiverse with the same ease that you and I walk across a street.

another words - scientifically speaking, there are forces (deities to you and I) that can skim our reality... our space... our time... and to whom our very universe is as negligible as a single snowflake in a snowstorm.


i dont know if i can explain this in such a short format... but it requires you, the reader, to have a full grasp of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dimensions and humanities relationship with those... then an understanding of the 5th and 6th to get my point...

probably sounds crazy but i've spent a lot of time on this... and again, i dont claim it IS the way things are... just that in my estimation and based on evidence i've studied, it is very LIKELY that THIS is the truth.

@ Babak: Where will the compound be? I'll join for $50/month.

Yeah... That's pretty similar to my view, actually. Honestly, I never thought of the other dimensions though, which makes perfect sense.

Oh yeah, the intercession beings from the 11th dimension based on the unprovable string theory is much more reasonable than a regular religion.

@Invictus: He said he was 'scientifically speaking'. Please don't equate religion to wild assumptions based on scientific thought processes.

(that was a poor attempt of sarcasm)