Uh, I just had a look at the game, and their loggin times are 3 minutes apart... Just enough time to put in orders!

A brilliant observation, Stevelers....

Neither of these players strikes me as especially strong, and for two guys hanging around for 3-4 months they have not exactly been burning up the boards. Hardly worth worrying about. Diplomize in your game, throw your "meta" accusations fast and furiously in global and individual chat. Build a vengeful allied force to crush the evil buggers (with yourself, naturally, taking a lead role, the bulk of the risk, {and the bulk of the SCs}).

It other words, thanks for the head's up. Now go back and use it.

Is that all I can do?

Well, you could just quit playing. But we've been over that before...

So, would no further investigation be made?

Well, Kestas can probably look at it, and decide for himself the nature of those two accounts. Otherwise, if you believe they are multi-accounting, punish them in game.

Kestas, can you take a look at this case?

Sorry for late replay. WaWeeT is my little brother. I'm showing to him how to play diplomacy and we play from two different computers so he don't see my orders. Of course is logical that we have high fidelity.
My question: Is this legal or it can be treated as cheating??? I didn't find nothing about this in roles of Phpdiplomacy.
If it is not legal I will quit all my games with WaWeeT.
Sorry for this inconvinient.

Thank you for your honesty, Jokolino, but unfortunately this should be considered as meta-gaming (a form of cheating) in pHp. It would indeed be an honorable act for you to quit all the relevant games.

You can surely teaching him by helping him with orders in a game you are not involved in.

This doesnt explain why they are always logged on at very similar times if they are at a different computer?

Sure it does. Perhaps they rush off to the computer to check their games once they're finished their supper. Or any myriad of other similar situations.

At least he's offered a solution. =)

OK, I will leave my games. Can WaWeeT continue his games?

I don't think so. Both accounts should forfeit their previous unfair gains in order to compensate for the meta-gaming act although some irreversible damage has already been done... Jokolino, please do an honorable thing and quit all the relevant games too..

I disagree Fraushai. If both players go into CD simultaneously, I believe the remaining players (such as you) will gain unfair advantage. If you want to have Kestas cancel the games, fine, but continuing the games with 2 players in CD doesn't seem right either.

Neither of the metagamers did anything with nefarious purposes, so I think have one quit, and let the other go on.

The only problem with what they are doing is that them working together is automatic. If they treated eachother the same as all other players (ie they might stab one another) then it would be fine. Maybe they should just start fighting.

Exactly. If they are willing to stab each other, and play with each other as they would any other stranger then it would be alright. As it is, I think they've decided they can't do that, and so are doing the next best thing. They won't play together.

It's too bad for the games involved, but I would rather have the two new players in our community than alienate them. I believe they're well intentioned, and there's no need to punish them for a rather simple mistake.

Agreed Chrispminis

It is fine for them to play together, just as Wombat and flashman do, but they should not put any stock by relations external to the game.

Treefarn, if Kestas would cancel/draw the game I would agree. However, as you can see from the game Turkey/Russia/France/Germany have suffered dearly as a result of the metagaming, I don't think that we would gain an 'unfair' advantage if the two playesrs go into CD.

As regards the option that Austria and Italy start fighting one another, the damage done is irreversible and it is likely that either of them would eventually win.The best solution is to cancel the game.

The accused players seem like reasonable people. In my opinion, there is no need for them to abandon their existing games together. But, as Centurnian et al have said, if they begin to treat eachother as regular opponents them I would say it's ok. We're not in the business of banning people from playing with others they know outside of phpdip.

And the newbee chimes in...

These are reasonable people who did something they did not think was wrong and owned up to it when it was brought to their attention. They sound like the kind of people we want here.

I would say they need to put a post in Global of every game they play together in the future saying that they are brothers and saying whether they will or will not consider backstabbing each other. Self-interested players will take care of the rest.

Now Jokolino and WaWeeT, if there is any doubt that what you are doing is cheating, take a look at your games. You are eliminated from any game you played alone and one of you is the winner or the currently largest country in any game you played together, sometimes 1 & 2. Do you think that is chance?

Do you think that was fair to the other players a few of whom have nice high scores they have been working on for a long time. Yes you did this innocently and the benefit you gain will be modest, but should those players loose out because of it?

Now what do you think you should do?

i agree with dangermouse. having them treat each other as enemies seems to be the most fair to all parties involved. Having one brother leave the games would open the door for the other brother to subsume his nation's SCs, and if both players left then that would be unfair to the players too far away or in an unsuitable condition to take advantage of the CD's

I always treat my brother like other players in Diplomacy. In one game, WaWeeT backstub me, so I think we are quite correct players.
We play two games together and we decided to leave one game per each player. I think this should be the most right decision.

I believe not, but I concur with Idrut.

I am essentially ruined in the game 'I hate this game so much I'm gonna hurl ', as you all can see in my profile, all because of Jokolino and Waweet's meta-gaming strategies.

I don't see any remorse from you, Jokolino, in abandoning Waweet's Austria (which has begun to lose supply centres to Russia and Turkey) while taking advantage of Waweet's civil disorder to further Italy (Jokolino)'s interests.

This cannot be the most right decision.

I'm currently in a game with the both of them, one Germany, one italy, and they're right now the two dominant players in the end-game. With these multiple incidents, I think brotherly love might be getting in the way of the spirit of the game.

I agree with joko, the past tense of backstab should be "backstub"