Not just the fall guy, but rather the lynchpin. Given the other contacts, by the time this is done, I'd be surprised if Mueller didn't have indictments on Trump jr, Manafort, Goldstone, Sessions, Kushner, Flynn and probably Trump Sr. For my money the question is whether Pence was involved.

I heard about this. Is this actually a big deal? I've sort of gotten jaded to most Russian hysteria.

Just a little light treason, flum.

So if I read the article I won't be disappointed?

@"Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited. "

apparently not very effectively prohibited...

SUMMARY

Russian guy: hey Were gonna do some illegal shady shit

Don Jr. Sounds great! I will be transparent and shit once someone finds out

Right now congressional investigations are looking into money laundering. Because Trump Sr.loves to use other peoples' money.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/opinions/russia-probe-money-laundering-database-opinion-zeldin/index.html

This only shows intention to collude. Not the actual collusion.

Yes and if the past six months have taught us anything information about the actual collusion will be along shortly. Sit tight.

No one that matters cares, no one that matters will care, if anyone gets in legal trouble they will be pardoned and no one will care about that. We've reached a tipping point in our two party democracy where the only party held accountable is on the left.

Soliciting the contribution is enough. 52 USC 30121(a)(2).

The intent to collide is sufficient to make the case. The Trump campaign manager arranged to meet with a hostile government to obtain a contribution of intelligence. This is prima facie much much worse than Clinton was even accused of, much less actually did. If it had been the other way around conservatives would be losing their shit. As it is they're totally unfazed by collusion with a foreign government because for them tribe trumps any concern for the country. Really, these people ought to renounce their citizenship.

because i'm not a lawyer, what would the charge be against Trump Jr.? specifically i mean, because this has all been sketchy but i'm no legal expert

@Ogion

"The woman, as she has said publicly, was not a government official."

so would it work in court?

Oh, and don't forget conspiracy. Manafort, Kushner, trump and Goldstone all party to the same overt act to further the criminal activity. Even I could win this one.

Ogion:
But you can't get Trump Sr. on this one. Little Donald, Kushner, and Manafort sure.

James:
They were led to believe she did work for the Russian government and those were the grounds on which Little Donald agreed to a meeting, so whether or not she was ceases to matter.

ahh that makes more sense

Up to five years in prison each, just for the underlying counts. Fun!

Oh that depends entirely on what he knew. If Jr told daddy ahead of time, he is done.

Jr claims he didn't even tell Manafort or Kushner who they were meeting, so it's not going to be that easy.

....he forwarded the email....

Also, this is just one meeting. On current form I suspect that Trump knew about and possibly solicited the Russian hacking of voter registrations. Also we have confirmation that the campaign knew Russia was actively interfering in the election on Trump's behalf

We are on the edge of a serious constitutional crisis. If there are never any repercussions, we might as well declare the constitution null and void.

But not to his dad. And if he was going to say he never told Kushner or Manafort about who they were meeting despite copying them onto an email, is anyone going to say Trump Sr. who wasn't copied onto any emails had prior knowledge of the meeting?

Gee, looks like he proved himself a liar already. I am reminded of a story by a law school prof of mine that said the only time he ever felt he had ethical qualms was one time when opposing counsel and client were so stupid is was embarrassingly easy to beat them. Trump has handed Mueller everything he needs for charges, not to mention probable cause to siege alk of his emails from the ISP. No judge will withhold a warrant on any of these guys. If genius Jr sent any mention to Dad, he is done too

"To seize all of his emails".

now i have another quick question, if a member of the Russian government (or someone who says they are) comes to a campaign and says they have possible criminal information on another party, then it's illegal to have a meeting with them to discuss it?

i mean if the russian government comes to me and says that they have criminal information on a private citizen, i'm going to hear what they have to say. i understand the ethical dilemma in the Trump campaign, but it's not as if Trump Jr said "alright let's use this as a tool or blackmail to destroy Clinton" he simply arranged a meeting.

i looked up @Ogion's code and it only talks about donations and money and items. nothing yet about intelligence

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

i found this transcript by NPR that kind of shows were i'm at:

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/10/536505276/trump-russia-probe-raises-debate-over-whether-collusion-is-criminal


i mean, let's not forget if this is all ILLEGAL, then shouldn't Obama be in prison?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE


i think we can all agree the Trump campaign was stretching their ethical bounds, but legally, i still don't actually see the specific charge. the reaction to a foreign government saying "we have incriminating information on your rival" being "we need to have a meeting to discuss this" is far form an illegal action.

if Russia came to a reporter at the New York Times and said "we have incriminating information on Trump" it'd be an entirely correct response to arrange a meeting.

but... because Trump Jr. is part of a campaign... he is supposed to what? ignore criminal complaints by foreign governments? perhaps a more appropriate response would be to turn it over to the FBI, but he didn't even know the veracity of the claims yet.

furthermore, arranging a meeting is far from making any promises or deals, or any kind of "coordination" between the two governments. in fact, the entire email chain never mentions any future prospects, simply that there's a russian government lawyer who has potential criminal information on Clinton.

so i think i need to ask his again, what is the specific legal charge you're bringing them to court on?

i'm sorry that i have to be the one guy in the room asking this, but it's a serious inquiry. this is potentially the future of the USA in balance right now and i don't want to have an disillusionments

It is illiberal to accept money items or "anything of value" such as intelligence. It is also illegal to solicit this stuff even if you don't use it. This happened to al gores campaign in 2000 when somebody dropped a video of W debate practice... and Al Gores campaign promptly contacted the FBI.

*illegal.

@ishrikmywork

well the Trump campaign has been ethically compromised since day 1, i'll never argue to the contrary on that front, but is this illegal?

arranging a meeting could simply be to look at the veracity of the information before seeing whether or not to get the DOJ or FBI involved. as it turns out it was the right choice not to get them involved, because the claims turned out to have zero backing. i'm still uncertain as to exactly whether or not this is fully criminal.

there's also the matter of them not being certain this was actually a Russian official, as they had no actual confirmation for this.

it seems like Trump Jr.'s simple arranging of a meeting is to vague an action to be direct collusion, as it could be for various different reasons.

also, i'm still unclear as to why if this is entirely illegal, Obama hasn't been charged with what he said

I read the articles and I don't care. Doesn't seem like that big a deal. If Trump jr. was offering favours for info I'd change my tune.

Guys, there are so many more interesting conspiracies out there than Russia is evil and behind everything in the US election. Out of all the conspiracies out there I'm suprised this is the most popular one.

It's not about the election nearly as much as it is about the ongoing blackmail. What if Russia blackmailed Flynn (while he was NSA director) into giving the Russians information on American spies inside of Russia?

i actually agree with you guys here. if this is the WORST thing russia did with the Trump campaign (which turned out not to even be a member of the russian government) then that's not much

if there's a deeper connection to Flynn, we need to try to find THAT

i don't understand how you can not care -- well actually i do understand -- feelings like that are why trump is president and shredding the constitution at the moment.

"If" Hauta?

I'm sure every source we have in russia is desperately trying to get out, because it is pretty damned sure the US government is compromised at the highest level. The Us leaks like a sieve and I can't imagine anyone would be dumb enough to work with US intelligence

Particularly since it now appears there was a FsB/KGB agent at the meeting

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/07/14/this-nbc-news-scoop-is-another-big-blow-to-the-trump-camps-russia-spin/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f903d504a0bf

So, Trump was willing to cut a deal with the KGB for help with the campaign. I'm sure those guys just wanted flowers on Valentine's Day in return

Meanwhile the fake "patriots" on the right are no doubt applauding the move. Let's face it, these Conservative hate America.

Then-candidate Trump was probably there too. Lewandowski just got caught misinforming people that DJT was on his way to Florida for a campaign stop. He wasn't. He was in Trump Tower at the time.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/jul/14/corey-lewandowski/lewandowski-wrongly-says-trump-florida-day-trump-t/