I'm sure what they don't want is a category. Nobody should want a category. Sexual desire along with Autism and Intelligence (whatever they turn out to be) are found in all human beings on a spectrum. There are no slots on the spectrum and it isn't even linear.

Or, some want to be part of news story.

Some want to not have sexuality pushed on them, and assumed by the majority. I feel certain that they want asexuality to be included in sex ed. Unfortunately i suspect the lack of research would limit how easy it is to get any reference included. Maybe a census category will help, as it will give inaccurate self-reported figures (which is hetter than no figures)

I fail to see what's being discussed here.
Do you want to discuss asexuality, which is a pretty common term for me at least? Do you want to discuss the fact that the British have an outdated census?

What's there to discuss?

Your capacity to imagine what life is like for a person who is different from you.

That's a little different from the questions you asked initially. Which discussion do you want to have?

Only the impotent are pure. I was inspired by my 96 year old neighbor... "Young Bob"... crikey he used to watch a lot of women's tennis...there's something to the grunters, squealers and moaners in short skirts, all sweaty and slightly grubby

I feel quite lucky to have lived in the age of modern antibiotics and drugs like Viagra

But if people want to "opt out" of being sexually active then that's fine with me, I see no reason to force anyone into a sexual stereotype or sexual choice against their will
Usually most people get married, have a few kids and that does the trick of killing all sexual activity..eventually

@Orathiac.

An almost interesting thread ..in summary are you looking at this statement of being.

"We should all try to find the common things we share with each other and celebrate the differences."

This satisfies 2 of the basic needs of being human.. the need to belong and the need to learn and be curious. Unfortunately fear and hate tend to be the tools of power and control ..have one guess which world we are currently living in..

One of my daughters is Bi-sexual one straight and one has no interest at all and does not identify as a sexual being.

@Smokey, does the not sexual daugtrher have trouble with people making assumptions (like she hasn't met the right person?) or pressure to have sex?

From my experience, it's really not as different as you seem to think. Wanting sex doesn't equal wanting a relation, so it's possible that she still wants a relationship, just not for sex. Maybe she isn't interested in a relationship either, just like enough straight people aren't. Likewise, she could be all into romance or more casual if she wants a relationship, just like straight people.
Maybe she refuses to have sex completely and maybe she just doesn't care and is willing to do it if that makes the person she wants to be with happy. For instance, maybe she had her enjoyment out of it at the bar and she's grateful enough to get the other person something more out of it. Some would call that slutty, but in the end you should just do whatever feels right to you.

How exactly would pressure to have sex work? Is that a thing? Maybe I'm just too careless to notice any pressure.

I should note that asexual can mean a couple of things to various people which doesn't help. I always ask further if I want to know how someone stands in these things, just like I would ask further if someone told me he's straight.

@"How exactly would pressure to have sex work? Is that a thing? Maybe I'm just too careless to notice any pressure."

Unfortunately it usually works out rather poorly. Worst case rape/date-rape, best constant pressure from peers, parents, media messages reinforcing the norm, advertising selling sex as the norm, an entire social system which assumes that toddlers fight just 'like each other' or push hetro-sexual expectations on 4 year old boys who like joining a dance class ("well it's full of girls", "what a ladies man", etc.)

And while it is absurd then, i'm sure it only gets worse for asexual people. As they grow up and continue to be as asexual as the 4 year old; but now have peers who start behaving in sexual ways and nobody has ever told them that asexuality exists.

The only personal experience i can remember of not livin up to social expectations is giving up alcohol for a year, the amount of pressure i was placed under, the number of times i had to say no and repeat myself several times, the failure to understand was pretty tough. And that was a choice i had made, not something inherent to my identity...

And yes, worst case can look like this: http://theburr.com/cant-fix-what-isnt-broken/

Okay..
I guess I just don't notice any expectation of me to have sex, drink or whatever.
Maybe drinking very rarely, but if I don't want to I don't drink.

Out of curiosity, do you actively try to live up to social expectations or is that coincidental?

Perhaps living in Ireland the expectation to drink is different than Holland.

I don't live up to social expectstions, in many ways, a year without drinking, a vegtarian, and a person who wears socks with sandals. But i'm also white, conparitvely wealth, cis-het male, and educated. Basically i've got all the privilege in the world and can get away with ignoring social conventions with a lot less trouble.

As for pressure to have sex. See the worst case i linked, and imagine it is a spectrum from being bothered about it once in a while (whether it is parents asking when you'll have children, or peers asking why you're still a virgin) to this.

Out of curiosity, as a male do you not feel like you have to prove your maleness by having sex? Is this not a social pressure you have ever experienced??

No, I don't. I'm a virgin and I'm not ashamed at all to say so. I'm 18 years old, that's probably relevant here.
The only person to ask in the last few years is probably the girl I love and that's out of curiosity. We are extremely open and curious about everything. She's a virgin too, not sure whether she feels it's abnormal but she's in no rush to lose her virginity either. Also, 'crazy' is kind of our thing so that's certainly not something we're afraid of being perceived as.

I'm notorious for not giving a shit about what others think though, and I have something of a track record to prove it.

I'm also somewhat intimidating to some people, with my very 'intense' look. So overall, I guess no one would question my maleness anyway and if they do, they're too scared to let me know.

I quite successfully ignore social conventions. I know that's quite rare these days, but anyway.

Also worth mentioning is that I'm very picky with friends and anyone who would even consider judging me (read: most people I fear) is not going to be a friend or relevant to me. As such, those who would want to apply social pressure have very little 'leverage' against me to begin with: I don't want anything from them

This pressure can begin in innocuous ways early on. I have a 3 year old son who, from very early on (I'm talking like 6 mo and on), was told he's going to be a heart breaker and a lady-killer who will have to fend off the girls with a stick, and so on.

If it's just jokes, I don't think it's wrong per se. If it's more like a wish or reassuring the kid or parents, that's heading in the wrong direction.

"advertising selling sex as the norm"

I have never seen a prostitution ad.

@ orathiac.

The non sexual daughter does feel pressures to " have a relationship' of a sexual nature with someone or at least be interested in the possibility from general society .
Nearly all of our advertising and expectations as a society are about dual consumerism which is based on sexual intimate couples the desire to become part of a couple or the consequences of having children ..

She is happy with her sexuality but does definitely feel a lot of pressure from straight and gay people. Its as though even though she is an adult "they feel " that she has not grown up or developed yet and is therefore still a child in that respect.
its as though having sex ,wanting sex or being sexually active is an essential part of adult life. This is simply not the case for all..As a father obviously I have had sex to have a daughter and I do find at times I have inadvertently put pressures on my daughter.

"I have never seen a prostitution ad." have you heard the phrase 'sex sells'? i refers to the advertising industry using the idea that sex is desirable in order to sell their product.

eg: Lynx body spray will get all the ladies to have sex with you.

Implicit in this is the suggestion that you, the target audience, should want to have sex.

@"Its as though even though she is an adult "they feel " that she has not grown up or developed yet and is therefore still a child in that respect." - That is a great explanation of the kinds of unseen harm which you might not make if you assumed a person was the same as you... Ultimately all parents just want their parents to be happy, and not realising the existence of something like asexuality or even just assuming that other people think the same way you do (or must be idiots if they can't see the things you see) is a typical way to accidentally be shit to others.

Smokey, it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of not being shit.

@Steephie: "No, I don't. I'm a virgin and I'm not ashamed at all to say so. I'm 18 years old, that's probably relevant here."

Fecking Dutch, with one of the worlds healthiest attitudes toward sex... going ahead and being better than the rest of us :p

@"I quite successfully ignore social conventions. I know that's quite rare these days, but anyway." - ok, maybe that plays a part too...

@"was told he's going to be a heart breaker and a lady-killer who will have to fend off the girls with a stick, and so on." - which is just weird, as kids don't develop that sexual drive until far later. I don't know if it is correct to call them asexual, but close enough...

"Implicit in this is the suggestion that you, the target audience, should want to have sex."

~95% of the target audience does want to have sex. Sexuality isn't just a societal norm; it's a biological norm.

@ora: "Fecking Dutch, with one of the worlds healthiest attitudes toward sex... going ahead and being better than the rest of us :p"

I think you're right, but while no one forces you to follow the crowd, no one stops you from doing so either and people tend to follow the crowd. For instance, respecting gay people is something I support, but that in particular became more of a mass tourist thing now: every popular feel-good kid wants to have a gay friend and make sure everyone knows how progressive they are. I've watched girls suddenly taking pictures with a gay classmate, some hours after he came out.
It's kind of missing the point since you shouldn't give a shot about someone's sexuality, not love them *because* they're gay, giving them some special 'accepted+' status. It's just.. weird in my opinion.

I exaggerate a little but I hope you see the point. There's always enough people who work out how to increase their popularity by acting tolerant.

@leon: That's indeed the cause. That's exactly why there's social pressure, but that doesn't make it right.

"That's indeed the cause. That's exactly why there's social pressure, but that doesn't make it right."

What's your suggestion for changing that. I'm sure no one would pressure asexual people to have sex after knowing they are asexual, but when the vast majority of people are sexual, you can't expect them to change their assumptions when those assumptions would be correct in the vast majority of cases.

They shouldn't make assumptions to begin with. Someone is of unknown sexuality unless they specified their sexuality.

Again though, I know I'm the exception and most people apparently can't think like that.

There simply aren't enough asexual people to make me change my assumptions. For instance, if you see a baby boy, you won't go thinking he might secretly be a girl on the inside.

It's not about changing your assumptions, it's about not having them.

It's all a question of your mentality I guess.

Would you rather assume facts, knowing for certain that you're wrong a percentage of the time and therefore, in essence, accepting that you are partially living in lies? Or would you rather recognise that you don't actually know that much and try to know more?

I'd rather do the last myself. I know most people prefer their world simple and without mysteries though.

@leon1122
"Implicit in this is the suggestion that you, the target audience, should want to have sex."

~95% of the target audience does want to have sex. Sexuality isn't just a societal norm; it's a biological norm.

- so do you think it is ok to discriminate against people hust because they are a minority? I'm not sure what else to read from your 95% figure.

Ans biology does indeed exist, and perhaps inform our culture. However i suspect our culture over-rates sex. Look at the similarities between sex and rollercoasters, people do both for fun, there are lots of different types of rollercoasters, they can be more fun if you go with a friend. Rollercoasters are usually safe, but there is an element of risk inherent...

And contrast how society treats then. There is no words for 'never having riden the big roller coaster', there is no moralizing or slut shaming of people who use lots of rollercoasters, there is no demand that we only use one rollercoaster at a time or in ultra-conservative circles that we choose one rollercoaster for life.

There is no illicit trade in underground rollercoaster rides, because there is no problem publically selling or advertising rollercoasters. And finally, advertisers don't think, well everyone likes rollercoasters, and while we can't sell tha directly, we can use that to sell other products.

Ok, my analogy kinda fails when you consider that sex can be intimate, and this have an empotional component. And that humans are predisposed to developing emotional bonds, especially with the release of oxcytocin, which can come from skin-to-skin contact. But that is talking about relationships, not sex.

I stand by my claim that our culture over-rates sex. And primarily because of a biological function (reproduction) which is irrelevant to most of the sex people actually have.

@"It's kind of missing the point since you shouldn't give a shot about someone's sexuality"
Yep, except when you're trying to get into their pants. It is none of your business, unless you're trying to get in their business. And even then, it doesn't matter a jot about their sexuality, it matters whether they are attracted to you personally.

@"I'm sure no one would pressure asexual people to have sex after knowing they are asexual"

Then you didn't read my post about the worst case scenario. Have you heard the term corrective rape? Usually ised in the context of lesbain who need to be 'corrected', well i'm sure it can be applied to asexuals aswell.

And also "It's not about changing your assumptions, it's about not having them.
" +1 to this entire post.

@orathaic
"http://theburr.com/cant-fix-what-isnt-broken/"
I have the wrong major reactions to this piece, but, taking a page from steephie's book, I don't care. The first example was my thought of "Huh! So THAT'S what the view looks like from under the Main Street bridge looks like! INTERESTING! I'll bet you could have seen most of the grain elevator if the shot had been wider."

The second was my concern for the fact that "Dan" is a criminal rapist (and I include "criminal" for emphasis not because I fail to recognize that I'm being redundant) and my fear that Blythe is not his only victim somewhat outweighing my concern about this being the worst-case scenario for what can happen to a person who is asexual. Her story speaks to me more about rape and sexual assault than it does about asexuality. Asexuality may be one indicator for being more likely to becoming a victim of rape (though given the lack of research into asexuality in general, I'm guessing this is still at the stage of an inquiry-opening hypothesis), but it's one among many.

That said, I do have one reaction that will be more acceptable: knowing more about asexuality, above all about its existence and the need to avoid treating it as shameful or harmful or immoral, and recognizing that sex drives are variable is a useful thing. It is a good article for spreading the word, and thank you for posting it.


"as a male do you not feel like you have to prove your maleness by having sex? Is this not a social pressure you have ever experienced??"
I'm with steephie on this one: I've never had anyone whom I respected and whose opinions I felt I ought to give weight to associate maleness/masculinity with sexual activity. Indeed, I'm almost unable rightly to apprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead to such an expectation. I in no way doubt that it exists or that it's common -- both historically and presently -- or that (many) others would feel the draw of it. But I have never felt the draw of it myself and cannot at present imagine myself feeling the draw of it in future.

@steephie
"Would you rather assume facts, knowing for certain that you're wrong a percentage of the time and therefore, in essence, accepting that you are partially living in lies? Or would you rather recognise that you don't actually know that much and try to know more?"
I agree with you in general, but if you don't make ANY assumptions about people, then you have no basis upon which to relate to them interpersonally. You will, for example, have no idea what constitutes a proper greeting. I don't think it's wrong to hold **operating** assumptions as long as you're open to changing them if they're genuinely incorrect and to realizing, even if they are correct, that they are generalizations that don't apply in all cases and that you should try to be sensitive to recognizing when they don't apply.

Or maybe that's what you meant.

Yeah I liked that post too :-)

It did just occur to me that I only partially drew the practical conclusions though:

1. With regards to sex, keep in your mind that you don't know someone's stance on it, so be absolutely certain that they approve.
2. With regards to discriminating and social pressure in general, don't rule out possibilities before they can actually be ruled out. Make sure that what you say and do isn't discriminating, regardless of what possibility turns out to be true in the specific case. Don't be okay with not discriminating 'most of the time' if you're against discrimination either, because that means you discriminate occasionally.
3. If you try to remain constantly aware of what I just said, your mind will undergo a very interesting change given time. Interesting questions and answers will take a central stage in your life.

I know it's unlikely that someone does something important with this, but I feel like trying to add practical conclusions to more abstract observations is a very good skill to train.

@OutsideSmoker:
I think we're on the same or at least a similar page as far as assumptions go. As long as you are fully aware that your operating assumptions are hypotheses and try to verify before possibly to hurt someone, that's just a method to tackle the uncertainty that you are aware of.

@"I do have one reaction that will be more acceptable: knowing more about asexuality, above all about its existence and the need to avoid treating it as shameful or harmful or immoral, and recognizing that sex drives are variable is a useful thing. " then my work here is mostly done.

i'd love to see some decent research, but not having sex isn't seen as a 'problem', i'm not having sex right now! And nobody is harassing me for it...

So i can see this sexuality (or lack thereof) as getting a lot less attention than, basically, any other. And you can't go around talking about it in, say, sex ed classes, without some decent academic research to backup what ever you want to say...

Needless to say, this may be harmful to vulnerable youths who know no better. They don't discover they are asexual and have unhealthy or unhappy sex lives for many years... hypothetically.