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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
You'd think...
that Caitlyn Jenner coming out, and news coverage would be celebrated by the trans community, it raises awareness and helps normalize their lives.

But...
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
This is what theu are actually saying (at least the articulate among the trans community) :

"Seeing a lot about Caitlyn Jenner today. And I am so happy for her, I truly am. And I think it's wonderful that the media are covering her transition and hopefully reaching and fostering understanding in people who would otherwise not be clued in to trans issues. I think it's wonderful for someone who was famous for their achievements as their birth-assigned gender to be able to publicly transition I can't imagine how hard that all must have been.

My issue with the whole thing is that she has money, her transition has been swift since her public coming out, there is no way that she can now be read as anything other than a woman, when the reality for most trans people is not that easy.
It takes years, and money, to get even hormonal treatment never mind surgeries should they want them. There are the risks involved with chest binding, there's the struggle of buying clothes when you're read as your assigned gender, and on and on. Misgendering can lead to physical attacks, verbal abuse, being refused housing, jobs, even familial support.
I'm glad for Caitlyn's sake that her transition has been, from what I can tell, smooth. But to hold her up as representative of the trans experience is idealistic at best and damaging to a lot of trans people at worst."
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
Just to point out, the "no way she can now be read as anything other than a woman" part... he/she didn't have the bottom surgery done, so technically he/she is still a man.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
@Chaqa, that depends on how you define man.

And the phrase used was 'read as a woman' which is to say, 'if you saw her in public, you would assume she was a woman.

That is beyond the semantics of your disagreement with what counts as a man/woman - semantic though it may be. Also essentialist.

You do, however, highlight one of the difficulties trans people suffer (apart from discrimination) SRS is expensive and difficult. Bottom surgery, while great for male-to-female (mtf) transitions, is not something a lot of ftm people go for.

They surgery for construcing a penis is rather difficult and often doesn't result in a particularily sensitive structure. So most trans-men i've talked to about it aren't that pushed - they can fuck their partners with a strapon and get as much ( or more ) pleasure, so why would they bother havig surgery??
zaneparks (102 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
No one that paid attention to Chastity/Chaz Bono would assume that money and fame (albeit reflected) make things easy or smooth.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
I think that trans are just like other people. Some are good some are bad. Some are smart some are dumb. So some trans philosophers don't like celebrities. I suppose they bring up some points, but I don't see that as speaking for the entire community.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
I think that celebrities are just like other people.
Some are good some are bad.
Some are smart some are dumb.
So some celebrities are trans, doesn't mean their experiences are representative of all trans people.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jun 15 UTC
Is there a point somewhere in your satire, because that wasn't what I was saying at all.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
I don't know what your point was at all then.

Mine was just that some* trans people see this misrepresentation as potentially damaging.

That is all.

*And the positive comments from multiple trans people saying things like "you said what i was feeling but couldn't figure out how to say" or "much more eloquently put than my post..." are what makes me say 'some'.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jun 15 UTC
Then I initially misunderstood. It appeared to me you were saying that was the opinion of all trans people, or at least all of whom's opinion mattered.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
No, just highlighting the subtle differences between media presentations and reality.

How we fail to imagine the world complexly.

If i was saying 'these are the only views that matter' - then i would be invalidating numerous narratives which others have. And ignoring those leaves a much simpler cleaner world, without any of the nuance or fun, spice or colour, that complexity entails.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jun 15 UTC
Then we are in agreement on the matter
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+2)
"Mine was just that some* trans people see this misrepresentation as potentially damaging."

Your OP specifically implies that the trans community in general holds the opinions you went on to quote. The *Some was not implied at all.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
Some vs All is an on-going debate many things, see #notallmen.

The implication that any one speaks for all is distracting from the point. Does everyone know that we never mean all Americans, when i say 'Americans are fat'? Or was my opening statement misleading?

If Jenner isn't representative of the community in general, do i need to say that neither does any individual trans person? (At least they are asking for feedback from other trans people on the issue...)
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+2)
I have very little to say of substance in terms of the topic, but there is a rather important distinction between some and all. Specificity of language should not be brushed aside and assumptions should not be made that a statement should be understood in some particular way when it was vaguely stated. I think jmo was pointing out that your opening statement was misleading, and perhaps potentially distracting, given what you really wanted to talk about. I think when one is really trying to craft a message or a statement, great care should be taken to make sure that it is clear and doesn't give a lot of doubt as to what is intended and oftentimes to minimize the need for any inference.
That's how I tend to write in my personal work and partly why I don't play casual diplomacy full press games because it takes me a long time to write a message to each person.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
So is zultar a +1 whore or a +1 gigolo?
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jun 15 UTC
I don't think my day on webdip is ever complete until someone calls me a +1 whore.
Gunfighter06 (224 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
Excuse me while I go throw up. Brb.
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jun 15 UTC
I am not sure what that was in response to, but yeah, you should probably go throw up and not swallow your own vomit.
ILN (100 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
I honestly could not care less. What i don't understand is all the magazines calling her beautiful. Like, you don't need to lie about her appearance to support her. Her appearance is anything but beautiful.
ghug (5068 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
Classy as always, Gunfighter.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
ILN, that is fine, if that is what you think. A very different criticism has also been laid. That she is fulfilling a cis-female standard of beauty which is not achievable by all trans-women.

And that these beauty standards are themselves unhelpful (similar to the laci green video i posted earlier on a different thread) And this also comes from a transwoman:
m.mic.com/articles/119904/laverne-cox-praised-caitlyn-jenner-but-reminded-us-there-s-still-working-to-be-done
ILN (100 D)
03 Jun 15 UTC
laci green is a joke lol


22 replies
Scramble for the World
Virtually a live game, it'll move quick and I'm looking for a way to get through finals week. Everyone join for a fun game of global domination.
Game title: Scramble for the World
0 replies
Open
TheMarauder (1270 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
World gunboat!
gameID=162089
I've been having trouble getting enough people to join. I set a very long amount of time for people to join, but it will start immediately if we get enough players. Please join!
0 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
01 Jun 15 UTC
Not leaving, but kind of leaving
I have not had a lot of free time this year, and I'm about to have even less. I don't anticipate I'll be spending a lot of time here. Probably I will make like 1 or 2 short comments on a few threads and then disappear. Don't think I'm ignoring you on purpose, it's just because I don't have the time to refresh all the time like I sometimes do. Lol. One Love
13 replies
Open
Pimp Magician (0 DX)
02 Jun 15 UTC
Is there a way to do a multi-way conversation?
It's super annoying that it doesn't seem to be possible to broadcast a message to two people, and have conversations involving more than just two people. I guess you can just relay between the three/four of you, but that's super annoying. Is there a workaround?
13 replies
Open
Ienpw_III (117 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
Mid-stakes Wilson game
1 reply
Open
Kruschtschow (96 D)
01 Jun 15 UTC
Support move via convoy
I did not find a clue, why a cannot do a support move via convoy?
Both, rule and rational are welcome.
18 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Jun 15 UTC
What today's feminism actually looks like...
#lacigreen #downwithbikinibodies

http://youtu.be/8p63mmsFuE4
3 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
Its YOUR fault I made bad choices
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/canada-court-orders-tobacco-firms-pay-billions-damages-150602100410712.html

Wow. I guess alcohol companies should now also be sued.
12 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
02 Jun 15 UTC
"Much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue"
So says the editor of the world's most prestigious medical journal:
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2815%2960696-1.pdf

12 replies
Open
Yaniv (1323 D(S))
01 Jun 15 UTC
How is one's position (rank) calcuated?
The FAQ explains how points are won and lost but does not explain how one goes up or down in ranking. Intuitively, the more one wins, the higher one climbs but I would really appreciate a detailed understanding of how one's position is determined. I've seen players of extremely high rank with a relatively low percentage of wins.
5 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
30 May 15 UTC
(+1)
Invisible Illness and the Spoon Theory
great description of the priviledge healthy people don't see

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory
2 replies
Open
World Diplomacy
Every should join this game because it will be phenomenal!!!!!
5 replies
Open
Aloha Snackbar (100 DX)
02 Jun 15 UTC
Live world game
Join the game death by live games. Gona be fun af
0 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
01 Jun 15 UTC
(+1)
Down with soviet influence in Ukraine :)
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/06/ukraine-anti-communist-laws-stir-controversy-150601054437645.html

About time the grasp on Ukraine by Russia loosens.
0 replies
Open
ZS (211 D)
29 May 15 UTC
Fastest demise
Best I've seen is 10->0 SC in a year
23 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
01 Jun 15 UTC
David Cameron: Evil genius?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/01/david-cameron-moriarty-downing-street-radical-thatcher
0 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
01 Jun 15 UTC
gameID=161932
Who's got a few days off and doesn't really need any sleep? :-D 8hr phase length, low buy-in, ppsc, just for a laugh :-D will be fun, come on....
8 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
01 Jun 15 UTC
ODC 2015
Quick rules question regarding the NMR wait mode...
17 replies
Open
Sendler (418 D)
30 May 15 UTC
Using CD as a tactic
So some CDs imo should not be counted in reliability rating. For example if there is only one option like destroying your unit.

20 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
01 Jun 15 UTC
Another 2012 World Championship Line
(Italy) That means either Germany or Russia start something, or we sit here stagnant. Austria and I have draw votes in. If you guys don't want to draw, then kick some sand in someone's face.
3 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
01 Jun 15 UTC
Soooooo, can I drop by and just say hi?
been a while. My dad is now a married man and I am down without reliable internet for another week..... but alas I wanted to say hi.
6 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
29 May 15 UTC
(+15)
Woot Woot
I passed my qualifying exams and am now officially a candidate to be a Doctor of Philosophy in Chemistry. I'll be serving virtual, unpretentious wine for the rest of the evening in celebration.
60 replies
Open
Ienpw_III (117 D)
30 May 15 UTC
Does taking over a losing CD give you a loss on your record?
Assuming you do, in fact, lose.
16 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
30 May 15 UTC
(+3)
The Velvet Glove Issue 1 is finally out!
Featuring webDip on the cover!
If anyone wants to get more involved, feel free to contact me.
http://thevelvetglovecont.wix.com/the-velvet-glove#!current-issue/aboutPage
36 replies
Open
jbalcorn (429 D)
29 May 15 UTC
Example game on Wikibooks
There's a sample game on the Wikibooks page. It's a TERRIBLE game. What would be a good sample game to show?
38 replies
Open
ZS (211 D)
31 May 15 UTC
Bhm to ska
can you move a fleet like that without going through Denmark?
3 replies
Open
Rommeltastic (1126 D(B))
31 May 15 UTC
Auto-draw
If I recall, the rulebook offers a draw if no supply centers change hands in a certain number of years.
4 replies
Open
Tasnica (3366 D)
31 May 15 UTC
Has a game ever finished with none of the original players?
Bonus points if it ended in a solo or draw that was _not_ a direct result of all the CDs / sitters / replacements.
0 replies
Open
PrIvAtE_PeAkY (80 D)
30 May 15 UTC
Can you go from Naples to Tunisia without a sea fleet
Sorry if this is obvious but I'm new and I'm pinned and need to know if I can retreat to to usually without a sea unit.
4 replies
Open
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