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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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P13ANATOR (100 D)
12 Aug 15 UTC
Hi I am new, quick question
I am starting a game with some friends, can you play with less than 7 people? If so, is anything different compared to a full game? Thanks :-)
8 replies
Open
ND (879 D)
20 Jul 15 UTC
(+12)
MX: All Star Game
See inside for details
5191 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
10 Aug 15 UTC
MAFIA XI: Confirmations
I know some people may not realize sign up thread is also confirmation thread so let's make that ultra clear:
Starts 8/11/15, 6 PM EDT
140 replies
Open
guak (3381 D)
11 Aug 15 UTC
When retards play gunboat
3 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
11 Aug 15 UTC
Fly Free My Baby :'(
I just sold my first computer, it was really old but i'll never forget its beauty. I never can think of things to bring on trips, but my computer was my best possession. It was like a Mac -1... you know, pre-internet
10 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
10 Aug 15 UTC
Ferguson
Apparently the anniversary of Mike Brown's death turned into a reenactment. Anyone know anything?
21 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2736 D(B))
04 Aug 15 UTC
2015 Gunboat Tournament Ideas
See inside.
57 replies
Open
trip (696 D(B))
10 Aug 15 UTC
Cheap Gunboats
3 games, 10 point, 36hr, WTA, HDV, Anon
First come, first served...
15 replies
Open
ghug (5068 D(B))
29 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Pacific Northwest FTF
I've only ever played FTF with people who don't really care about the game and want to be done after a year, and I always feel a twinge of jealousy when I sew those people having fun playing in real life on that crappy coast across the country. This is just a post to see who might be interested in getting something set up on this side of the country. I'm in the Seattle area.
30 replies
Open
Hlud (115 D)
10 Aug 15 UTC
Monday Evening Live-2
I'm trying to join Monday Evening Live-2 starting in half an hour, as it only shows 6 current players, but only gives me the option to spectate. Why is this? My RR is 100%
8 replies
Open
TrPrado (461 D)
05 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
Conundrum
So the people who make the schedules at my school are kinda dumb. I signed up for both AP Micro/Macroeconomics and AP European History. Only one class of each is being offered. And they happen to be the same hour. So I need to drop one and pick up some other course. I really don't know, so what (preferably AP) course would you suggest for me to take instead of AP Micro/Macroeconomics (because there's no chance I'll drop Euro)?
132 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
07 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
DIPCON @ Philadelphia Massacre - Live
I'm risking life and limb to bring you guys the latest news all weekend and all tournament long.
108 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
03 May 15 UTC
(+4)
Not "Who am I?", but WHERE am I?
Have some time to kill. Ask yes/no questions to guess WHERE I am. If you guess right you go next. If you guess wrong you're out for the rest of the round.
1022 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
07 Jul 15 UTC
MAFIA XI: Sign-ups
MAFIA XI: Sign-ups
374 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
04 Aug 15 UTC
The dreams of solo--
Friends and enemies are welcome. 36 hour wta anon 50pt. Who wants action?
34 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
10 Aug 15 UTC
Cheating accusations
Without mentioning names or game ID's, can I please clarify something.

Making cheating accusations via in-game global press is not allowed, right? The correct procedure being to email the mods who will investigate?
6 replies
Open
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
08 Aug 15 UTC
New Italian strategy article
The army in Venice should go to Piedmont.

(with apologies to Chris Martin)
29 replies
Open
MrcsAurelius (3051 D(B))
23 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Setting up a game
Hi, I have been absent for three years. Its startin' to itch, as Diplomacy remains my favorite board game! Want to play a game with a friend of mine who also hasn't played for a long while.
81 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
I'm still alive
Sorry about that.
13 replies
Open
Octavious (2802 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
Clause IV
The people's flag is deepest red, or at least it could be. Comrade Corbyn has been suggesting he could bring back clause IV into the Labour Party constitution. I'm interesting in what it sounds like to an international audience.
5 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
My Cat's name is Shadow!!! EOG
This is the difficulty of playing a stalemate line, and I done goofed.
gameID=165777
1 reply
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
09 Aug 15 UTC
I got a cat
she is shadow
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL8At_SUwAAl-74.jpg
8 replies
Open
CMurder (749 D)
07 Aug 15 UTC
Getting Germany every single game
Hi everybody, I'd like to ask if anyone has experience with an account getting a certain country every single game. One of my friends who I've played in several games against has drawn Germany out of the pot every single time. We're onto the fifth time out of 5 games he's gotten Germany.

I'd put it up to chance but we've reached 5 sigma and are on our way to 6. Thoughts?
19 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
08 Aug 15 UTC
THE PREMIER LEAGUE IS BACK!!!
Join a Modern Live game as we watch Spurs and United fight it out, followed by the Premier League Season!!!
gameID=165741
Come on soccer nerds, you'll be on your labtop checking stats so just join it and stop pretending.
11 replies
Open
OutsideSmoker27 (204 D)
04 Aug 15 UTC
Stop the solo or tighten up the draw?
Which is more important, in your opinion?
65 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
01 Mar 15 UTC
(+3)
The School of War - Study Group of Winter 2015
This thread is for the Winter 2015 Study Group of the School of War. Please be courteous to those running the game and respect any reasonable requests they may make. This semester the Study Group will be overseen by A_Tin_Can and goldfinger0303. gameID=155736
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Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
01 Mar 15 UTC
Hello everyone and welcome to the School of War!

Our 2015 Winter Study Group will be overseen by Professor abgemacht, Adjunct Professor Sh@dow, and TAs A_Tin_Can and goldfinger0303. The School of War is an excellent, exciting opportunity for everyone to learn from the best and hone their Diplomacy skills. Seven players wishing to enhance their Diplomacy game to the next level are chosen to play a Full Press, Non-anonymous, Classic, Winner-Takes-All, 48 hour/phase game (gameID=155736) starting on March 2nd.

Invented in early 2014, the Study Group game consists of players who are more experienced than the students in a traditional SOW class. Rather than receiving one-on-one instruction by a TA, they send their own press and make their own moves; two TAs will provide over-all commentary/questions/grades instead. This is a great opportunity for those who have maybe been SoW students in the past and want to step up the challenge level a little, or perhaps for those thinking about being a TA in a future SoW game, or just for someone who wants some immediate feedback on their game.

At their discretion, Professor abgemact, Adjunct Professor Sh@dow, and TAs A_Tin_Can and goldfinger0303 will provide commentary on the game. This commentary can often take the form of a question and then subsequently as a grade. Players should PM their answer to the one who posed the question.

Just to reinforce to players:
***********************************
***Do not post answers on the forums.***
***********************************

Some ground rules before we go farther:
1. Please be respectful of any reasonable request the Professors or TAs make.
2. If you are unsure if you should post something in this thread, send it as a Private Message to either myself or the Professor instead.
3. Players are not to post in this thread until the game’s conclusion.
4. There is to be no communication about the game outside of the thread, the game, or PMing a professor
5. NOBODY but the professors is to post any commentary. However, anybody may ask any relevant question. Answers to questions are considered commentary.
6. End of Game (EOG) statements from the students are highly encouraged.

Many people work very hard to lecture, commentate, question, and grade this game/players so if you are worried you will not have time to properly participate, please let me know so I can find a replacement. If you CD, you most likely won't be invited back to future SOW games.

The School of War provides a learning environment for everyone. Anyone who is not a player is encouraged to not only follow along but post questions for the teaching staff as the game is played, counter to normal practice, for the express purpose of teaching/learning for the dozens of others NOT in the game in order to utilize SOW to the fullest. Questions are welcome, but please avoid leading questions that concern coming phases. (eg. "Don't you think it would be best for France to do X next turn...")

The Study Group consists of
1. LeonWalras (Turkey)
2. DeathLlama9 (Russia)
3. phil_a_s (Austria)
4. MarquisMark (England)
5. Tyran (France)
6. Scmoo472 (Italy)
7. The_Captain1234 (Germany)

Some previous SOW Study Groups can be found here:
threadID=1193195
threadID=1091081

If you have any questions or concerns during the game, please feel free to contact me.

Good luck!

Valis2501
SOW Chancellor
Greetings, glad to be here. I'll get my first lecture out in the next day.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Mar 15 UTC
I'm going to leave this game mostly to gold and ATC, but just to copy a small bit from what I posted in the SoW thread:

1) Talk to everyone every turn. This is especially true if you've just stabbed/been stabbed. Being at war is no excuse for lack of good communication. The board can change in the blink of an eye and you'll never know when your enemy may become your ally.

2) Watch the entire board. Every movement impacts every player. Is England attacking Russia? That impacts Turkey as much as it impacts France. Talk to your TA to learn about important territories to watch out for in the early game, such as NTH, BS, GAL, and BUR.
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
01 Mar 15 UTC
Will this thread be hidden from the players while the game is going?
No. If players are not regularly checking this thread, then they miss out on the benefit of the SoW
mitomon (511 D)
01 Mar 15 UTC
***Wouldn't it be best for Switzerland to join the war next round?***
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
02 Mar 15 UTC
"Anyone who is not a player is encouraged to not only follow along but post questions for the teaching staff as the game is played"

Okay thank you. I misunderstood the above sentence.
LeonWalras (865 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
Thanks to everyone who made the study group happen, and thanks for the star!
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
02 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
So, I'll start off by posting peter's lecture from a while ago. What I plan on saying is roughly the same, but said less elegantly.

Lecture 1 Spring 1901 Diplomacy
Title: Looking at the Game

We have no moves to analyze quite yet, so I will spend our first lesson describing how I think of the game. Some of this is completely original; a lot of it, however, is based on articles I've read in the Pouch*. This paradigm will be the framework for my future analyses and lectures, so pay attention!

There are three primary skills and three primary dimensions to Diplomacy. We will consider first the dimensions. The most obvious dimension is material: the goal of the game is to be the first to 18 centers, and it is easy to count the dots and armies and fleets and tell who is ‘winning,’ and for many players, that is all on which they judge an ongoing game. However, more advanced players will know that having the most centers doesn’t mean you’re winning (unless you have 18, in which case you’ve won!) – they will consider other factors, which I will divide into the dimensions of time and space. Although it is material that ultimately decides the game, advantages in time and space can be traded for advantages in material, and it is thus important to consider them. One example that illustrates this is the Orient Express opening for Austria and Italy, in which Italy leaves Tunis empty and Austria lets Italy borrow Trieste in Fall 1901 in order to gain time and space by moving the Italian fleet into the Aegean Sea. When done right, over the next few years, Italy and Austria will easily make up their temporary sacrifice in material by using their advantages in space and time to take Turkish and Russian centers.

On one level, evaluating material is as simple as counting the number of pieces a player owns. However, it must be noted that some pieces are stronger than others (but all supply centers count the same when the game ends!). For example, units that are far from their home centers represent a significant investment in time (more on that later!). The forward unit becomes even more useful when it is behind the enemy’s lines, as it can often tie up two or three opposing units all by itself. On the other hand, a unit tasked with defending multiple provinces is weak, as a savvy opponent will exploit it to break a line or pressure it, force you to reinforce it, and then shift his attack.

Likewise, there is more to space than looking at the map and seeing who owns what. Owning a space is not necessarily the same as controlling it, and it is often possible to control a space (although obviously not use it) without owning it. For example, a mistake beginning players often make is to leave no or very few forces around an agreed-upon DMZ, seeing only the fact that it is empty and missing the fact that their ‘friend’ has the units around to control it. This control can easily lead to ownership as part of a stab.

Time can be as simple as counting how far each piece has gone from its starting home center. Whenever possible, a player should strive to have his units be active – for them to actually be moving rather than bouncing, issuing supports, or worst of all, holding. Each turn is a chance to improve your position on the map, and the best way to do that is to move your pieces. That said, there definitely are times when bouncing and supports are essential: this makes time the most subtle of the dimensions to evaluate in a game, but the important thing is to keep in mind that freeing up your own units to move is generally good, as is tying down other powers’ units.

Therefore, when considering the board, good players seek to create and exploit advantages in time, space, and material in order to achieve victory or prevent somebody else’s victory: this is strategy. Strategy is the most long-range, and therefore the most difficult of the three skills to master, and, in my opinion, it is what separates the great players from the good players. When formulating strategy, in addition to the dimensions mentioned above, it is also essential to consider geography (stalemate lines, where can you or somebody else get the necessary centers to win) and your relationship with each player. Once a strategy is formulated, the skills of tactics and diplomacy are used to achieve it.

Tactics is the discipline of using units to achieve short-term goals. There are many quality articles on tactics out there+, and I will merely summarize a few of the tactical considerations and tricks available. The basics of tactics are described in the rules: moves, supports, cutting supports, and retreats. From there, we gain the more advanced concepts, such as purposefully disbanding and rebuilding, forward retreats, covering possible retreats, arranged bounces, unwanted supports, convoy switches, and, on some judges (not webdip), unwanted convoys.

Diplomacy is the art of convincing others to fall into your strategy. Persuasiveness is a large component of diplomacy, but it also includes discernment and building rapport. Diplomacy can be short term: convincing another power to support your move THIS TURN, or it can be long-term: building up relationships and knowledge of the other players so that you can better exploit and persuade them later. It is easy to assume that diplomacy is limited to press, but your moves also communicate to the other powers (in gunboat, that’s all the communication you get), and how well your moves and your press correlate can be the most influential factor of all!
peterwiggin (15158 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
Wow, I wrote that? Present me is impressed by past me.
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
02 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
Past me was also impressed by past you. Present me kinda just expects it now.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Mar 15 UTC
You have to remember while peterwiggin is a nobody here on webDip, he was ranked #1 on BOUNCED online Dip site!!
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
I don't really have anything to add to Goldie/PW's excellent advice, other than to say that I am hoping that nobody notices when I crib another past PW lecture in 1903.
The only thing that I would add is that as you open your negotiations in 1901, come up with a long term plan of getting to 18 SC's. Figure which ones you need to grab first, what you need to hold it, and what alliances you need to get there. It can be just a vague plan, but as I start out in each game I go (for example) "okay, I'm headed east, but I need x,y and z centers in order to solo if I open that way. The best way to get x,y,and z is to ally with country A from the start." Base all of these decisions around your impressions of each player. Who seems trustworthy? Who has an itchy stab finger? Do you ride with the trustworthy one, or exploit him? All decisions that you must make.

The second one is - for 1901 moves, you need to decide if you're going to play bold or cautious. I tend to make moves such that I have many options the next season on who to ally with. I almost never make an alliance decision in spring. This is a low risk - low reward scenario. Stabbing in spring (such as opening to EC) can yield much higher rewards, but at a far greater risk of leaving you open to a stab. You must consider these options and make a choice.

Finally, remember that every choice made by every player directly impacts you. If you're England, Turkey taking Black Sea versus Turkey and Russia bouncing in Black Sea has a huge impact on the prospects for a northern campaign, as well as your potential enemies (and allies in case of need). This is why it is crucial to not just talk with everyone on the board, but try to actively shape what their moves are. Be as active as you possibly can be.

Finally finally, a quick point. There is the traditional east/west stalemate line. That's fine and dandy, but too often easily blocked. Far stronger and far tougher to beat are north/south stalemate lines. These can only realistically be done by a few powers on the board (England, Russia, Germany in the north) (Italy Turkey in the south) but has far more exploits than the east/west due to its more fluid nature.
That last part was meant to be about when you're counting your 18 SC's for a solo, most people do one side of a stalemate line +1 on the other side (Most often West + Tunis or East + Marseilles or Berlin). A stronger solo run is one that can only be blocked by an unconventional stalemate line. Sorry if that didn't come across.
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
This has huge implications for live and FTF games - since most players know the "common" stalemate lines, and will only bone up on the uncommon ones in a pinch.

If you can become familiar enough with the construction of uncommon stalemate lines to be able to build (or exploit) them with only 5 minutes to write orders, you'll be at an advantage over the average player.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Mar 15 UTC
just being able to write down all your orders correctly in a face to face game before the timer drops can lend you a huge advantage!
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
02 Mar 15 UTC
"The game’s afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George!”
A_Tin_Can (2234 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
^Unless you're not England.
Sh@dow (3512 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
This is a more advanced group; so what I say might be redundant to the experienced players in this study group, but just in case there are some words in there to benefit someone, I am copy pasting what I wrote in the SoW class thread:

Hello everyone! I started playing Diplomacy only 7-8 months ago, but have got badly hooked to the game in this short space of time. I’m learning new things everyday, and I have a feeling that I am going to learn as much as I will teach here! Its great to finally be a part of the School of War initiative – I think it is a brilliant program and I am looking forward to this entire exercise. Thank you to Chancellor Valis for inviting me to lecture at the SoW – I hope I am able to make a meaningful contribution and give the students something of value to take away by the end of this.

There are 3 inter-related elements to this wonderful game called Diplomacy:
Tactics – the art of choosing the right combination of moves to achieve your short term aim within a single phase
Strategy – the art of aligning short term moves towards a long term strategic goal
Diplomacy – the art of convincing others to help you move towards that strategic goal.

Now, I personally think that I am still a tactically weak player. Especially, in the games against the highest rated players, I have found myself being tactically outwitted on a number of occasions. As a result, most of my commentary, advice and assignments (yes, I am a taskmaster) is going to be focused on what I consider to be my personal strength – strategy and diplomacy. There is a vital sub element of diplomacy that is oft ignored – manipulation. This is an extremely dangerous tool – but if used effectively, it can achieve magnificent dividends. It can backfire sometimes of course, but I think too many players ignore it because it can become too hot to handle. This is an ideal game for everyone to experiment with this aspect of the game – so expect commentary and assignments related to this as well.

And with that, let us begin! In Spring 1901, this is how I usually go about my game: (Please note that this is not necessarily the only way to play the game, but the strategy that I have personally found most useful) Opening press cannot be a 1 line offer of friendship. Make clear and meaningful alliance offers to BOTH neighbours and non-neighbours that clearly outline why it is in both your interest to be working together. Hypothetical message from Austria to Germany:


“Dear Germany, I look forward to establishing a genuine, long-term partnership with you. A Central Alliance is one of the most common alliances in this game and with very good reason. Austria and Germany’s success is intertwined with the others in a manner that is not true of any two other countries on the board. I forget the precise statistics, but if Austria falls by 1904, Germany’s probability of elimination rises by 50%. If Austria survives past 1904, Germany’s probability of drawing or solo-ing the game similarly rises exponentially. The reason for this is not difficult to identify – early Austrian elimination is certain to strengthen Russia. And it is a short step for Russia to move from Galicia-Silesia, War-Pru and Swe-Den/Baltic in a single move – very often leading to a crushing attack on Germany’s western front. In a similar manner, Germany’s early demise has negative repercussions for Austria.
My first and primary objective is to stop a potential Juggernaut and ensure peace with Italy. Both objectives are in your interest I think and I hope your diplomatic efforts will be geared towards that. May I expect an opening to Denmark to bounce Sweden if the need arises? In addition, I hope you will nudge Italy in my direction as well. In return, I am happy to align my overall stance with yours and ensure that I can diplomatically intervene in the North and with Russia on your behalf.
Hopefully, we both reach 6 builds soon. I might look to ally with Russia initially unless you want to head east first. But if you head west first, I am sure we can make short work of Russia in the mid game once our initial victims have fallen. What would you prefer? I am happy to align my stance with yours.
Looking forward to regular conversation and a productive relationship with you.”

Now. This is a long message and merely an example of how I might start the game because of my preference for the AG alliance to start with. Note how important it is for Austria that Germany opens to Denmark to bounce Sweden if the need arises which I have mentioned in my opening press. Note also how I have explained to Germany why it is in *his interests* to be in alliance with me and how I have asked for his diplomatic efforts to match mine. Always ensure, that in any communication, you are elaborating on why it is in the other person’s interests to do what you want. Always, always focus on this. Note also how I have opened conversation on figuring out Germany’s opening moves while being vague myself, and also laid out somewhat of a mid-game outline for him.
Meanwhile, Austria also has to talk to every single other person on the board. The primary aim might be to get Russia to open North or against Turkey – perhaps Turkey to open against Russia – and Italy to leave Venice to either Pied or Tuscany. You also want to know what is happening in the North West with regular communication with England and France. Start with platitudes and offers of friendship. Ask around about the status of things (always while offering help) to get an idea of how things are taking shape. If Germany has told you he is attacking England with France – message France and tell France how you have “convinced Germany” that he should ally with France and will ‘keep him in line’ – reassure France that you are working for his benefit – and gain his trust. If you don’t want England to fall too fast or perhaps if you think you might need English help against Russia later, warn Russia of an opening to the EC. Lots of things to consider and lots of conversations need to be had in 1901 to make that happen.

If you are in an alliance with Russia and are sure England is opening North heavy, you may want to warn Russia about it. OR you may want to quietly let it happen so that Russia continues to help you without getting too strong. If there is a 3-way attack happening on France, you may want to warn France to block it or convince one of the 3 to back off. My one rule of thumb always is: The first country to get eliminated MUST be a country that I eliminate. The last thing I want is an early elimination that strengthens a different country and changes the balance of power without my control.

I am going to copy paste what I recently posted in an earlier thread about the importance of talking to everybody on the map (in response to a question on why E and T would talk to each other)

*copy paste starts*

I've actually spoken fairly extensively to Turkey as England and vice versa.
For example, as England my opening message might be along the lines of: "Hey, lets keep in touch, look forward to talking and working with you this game etc...blah blah niceties.
Then - we will need to cooperate extensively to keep the big bear under control. Do let me know when you feel such an opportunity or necessity might arise. I look forward to sharing a border with you around Moscow someday etc etc.."

Now, as England my first priority might be to ensure that R doesn't open North. I can request Turkey to ally with Russia against A - and promise T to help clean up Russia once Turkey gets a foothold in the Balkans. Meanwhile in order to kinda slow down the entire Balkan theatre, I might even warn AI of a Jugg (after creating it myself) so that that the area gets stalematey for a bit while I have an easy time working with either of F/G in peace. And I can do this while AI feel happy that I warned them and RT feel happy that I helped set up their alliance! (This is a perfect world hypotheticals - but you get the point)
Or maybe I can ask Turkey to deny Russia a build in Rum, get Germany to deny R a build in Swe and move into Ska in Autumn to launch a devastating WT type attack.
Or if Turkey is under attack and I think he is falling too fast - I need Turkey to trust me so that I can intervene on his behalf and help him out. I have actually done this in many games. As England, I will never allow Turkey to fall to a quick Russian attack and will always intervene diplomatically to prop Turkey up through interventions via Italy or Austria for example.

Similarly for Turkey. I remember once as Turkey, I saw England open to EC as part of a EGI 3-way against France. Germany was in Bur already in Spring 1901 and Italy threatened to Lepanto while also getting a 2nd build in Marseilles. The last thing I wanted was for France to fall so early and for Italy to get too strong. I immediately intervened with England and convinced him to take the easy option of Belgium instead of going for the Brest 50-50. It worked. France tapped Bur and saved Marseilles, getting 2 builds in the process. Italy didn't get a build which allowed the Jugg more space to succeed. Meanwhile, from Belgium - E has a lot options and England went on to shift focus towards Germany. E took Den, Swe, Nor soon after and helped control my big Russian partner. France felt indebted to me for saving him - he eventually helped me with Italy and I had a great game. All of this was thanks to diplomatic work I did in Spring 1901

*copy paste ends*

I can give many more examples and situations. There are lots of immediate strategic reasons for ET to talk in 1901 itself - other than just the niceties required to start creating a relationship for later. And this is true for ANY two countries - not just ET.


I remember a game I played as Germany where I had *perfect* control over the entire board.
I wanted to start with a SeaLion (obliteration of England via a F-G attack). This is how I went about it:
Offered Belgium early to France and also Liv in exchange for Edi and Lon. The beauty of this set up is that Germany can get quick gains against Russia after England’s demise while you can ensure that France gets stuck against Italy long enough for Germany to grow strong and make a solo stab while stabbing France in Lvp and Bel with ease. Its also ideal for Germany since France makes an early opening to EC while Germany makes a comparatively safe opening and has great flexibility in Autumn to reverse course if needed.
I convinced Russia to open North with two units and bounce England in Norway. I told him I would guarantee Austrian cooperation if he agreed to this. He was only too happy.
I made undying offers of friendship to Austria and told him how much I was going to help him – I promised to send Russia North to help Austria and to get R-T to fight as well. This is exactly what happened and A was eternally grateful to me for diplomatically arranging a comfortable opening for him.
I got Turkey to open against Russia (This ensures R-T fighting and no Jugg, it gives Austria (my very important partner) breathing space and ALSO puts pressure on Russia which means he can’t control Scandinavia easily and is forced to be dependant on me -which makes my job of stabbing him easy after England falls.
Later, I also ‘helped’ A-R stab Turkey in 1902 – Russia was super grateful to me for making this happen and continued to make himself vulnerable to me. This is exactly what happened as Russia handed over Norway to me as well instead of claiming it himself – because of Turkey’s attacks on him in the south. And this made it super easy for me to stab him in Swe, Baltic, Silesia after England fell.
I made friends with Italy and asked for his help if required against France – promised to halt a Jugg if required in return. Which I arranged easily and Italy was grateful to me for that as well.

Later I warned Italy about the French stab so that France does not grow too fast and get easy builds (keep France vulnerable to my own stab later). This makes France build more fleets than armies (again beneficial to me).
Turkey started well in 1901 and got into Sev but AIR turned on Turkey. Once Turkey started to fall, I engineered A-I infighting. This ensured that Turkey didn’t fall too fast (and basically loved me – really useful to have someone who loves you far away and will be happy to do things to help you solo later) while AI remained a weak force overall. Once France went south, it was complete chaos in the south while I was rapidly colonizing Russia with no resistance whatsoever.

Observe how easily I am in control of the entire game. I am best friends with everyone, have apparently ‘helped’ each country in their moment of need and all the while, had a super easy expansion plan by keeping everyone weak and under control. I could solo quite easily after eliminating Russia and if needed, there is a solid chance that the chaos in the south will throw up someone happy to help me solo in order to take revenge on their enemy.
And how did this all happen?? Because of all the painstaking diplomatic (and manipulative) work I did in 1901. Each of you should be aiming to do the same now.

By and large, you should aim for 1 ally who trusts you with his life who you will stick with till mid game before stabbing when you get to solo strength.
With the remaining, you want to be best friends till you stab them. And ALL the while, you need to get them to fight each other. No one, no matter how good they are, can solo a game if the rest of the board unites against the solo threat. People solo because of mistakes made by others in not stopping a solo. Usually, it is because they are too busy fighting each other and seeking revenge to notice the solo. Oftentimes, it will organically happen. But sometimes, you will have to manipulate it yourself – you will have to manipulate players to MAKE it happen. Make them fight so that they are too focused on revenge and anger to notice your solo.

For an example, observe this game gameID=149475 which I am particularly fond of. It is a game in which I solo-ed despite making noobish tactical errors. How did I solo? Total board control. Every move that every country made in this game was made via my engineering and consent. I was best friends with everyone and had convinced everyone that my solo was not possible right up till the point it was.
Observe how I got France to back off from taking Italian centers around 1910– I did this to prevent him from getting builds (so that I could stab him later) and I did this by convincing him that Italy’s survival was essential to stop the Juggernaut. Lesson: Sometimes, the right time to stab is based on when the stabee is getting builds. There comes a point when if a country is expecting 2 builds, he becomes impossible to stab effectively later. Perhaps you need to stab early just in order to negate the builds.
1) Observe how France had no clue I would stab him because I had spared him his life in 1904 and he remained eternally grateful to me ever since – eventually throwing the game to me because I convinced him that a survive was better than a defeat.
Lesson: If you can show mercy sometimes, or help someone easily, do it: Grateful players will help you massively later.
2) Observe how I became friends with Russia again and used him to back off while stabbing France in Spring 1911– all because I kept talking to him pleasantly while we were at war, which meant that he liked me and was willing to become allies again.
Lesson: Do not stop talking even when you are at war.
3) Observe how Turkey stabbed Russia senselessly in 1910 because he was convinced that I would 3-way with him and France.
Lesson: Get everyone to fight.
Lesson: Also, always keep trying to convince people that there is no way you can solo.
4) Observe how Italy and Russia failed to move towards Munich even in 1912 when I was on the verge of a solo – because they were way too busy fighting each other.
Lesson: Oftentimes, I used to get one country to stab another saying that X will stab you while warning X of Y’s stab. That way, status quo is preserved while making two players very angry at each other and super happy with you. This is a dangerous game to play but can reap rich dividends if executed correctly

The point being: Communicate regularly. After every turn, send messages to players.
a) Commend them on their good work and start talking about the future.
b) Sympathise with them if they had a bad turn and immediately offer help. Either tactical advice on how to get out of trouble. Or even diplomatic help to get somebody to back off them (If they feel indebted to you for your help, that is brilliant).
c) If moves have inadvertently helped out a country X, take credit for it yourself and try and make it sound like it was a deliberate move to help the other country.
d) After you stab someone, don’t alienate that person. You could very easily need that person again. Pen a sob story:

Dear Turkey, My sincere and heartfelt apologies for that cruel stab. It was great working with you this game; you were a gem of an alliance partner. I felt horrible having to stab you and I hope you will find it in you to forgive me. Please don’t take it personally, Austria made me an offer that was too good to refuse (pin the blame on someone else) and I went along with it for strategic reasons that have nothing to do with you. I hope you will understand. I hope I can find a way to keep you in the game in some way if possible (in case it’s a player willing to help you solo later – I once stabbed Italy as Austria, wrote him a sob story, won his affections, got him to destroy his remaining units in italy, thereby handing over Italian mainland to me and fighting France even more all because I promised him a draw if I didn’t solo). If I can’t and you get eliminated, that will be sad – but I look forward to playing with you in another game. Etc etc.

Don’t ever alienate ANYONE. If someone is being unreasonable and getting hyper, YOU need to calm down even further. The other person might be an ass, but getting worked up isn’t going to help you. You never know when you will need him. Learn how to apologise even when it is not your fault – in order to maintain and preserve a diplomatic relationship.
There are exceptions to this of course – sometimes its useful to go silent or to mute – but that is for later.

I think I am going to stop now, if only because I have been typing too long. This is too long to read over for a second time – so I hope it is coherent :P My aim was to use concrete examples to impress upon each of you the importance and benefit of extensive communication, to help you understand that this game is all about *diplomacy*, and to give you an insight into what manipulation may look like and how it can be achieved.

I wish you best of luck for your opening moves. Keeping in the spirit of my opening lecture, keep in mind that Assignment 1 which will be due immediately after the deadline is this: “Give an account of how your diplomatic efforts in Spring 1901 was directed your non-neighbours? What did you get him/her to do and why?? How does it benefit you? What diplomatic strategy did you use? Did it succeed? Why/why not? What could you have tried differently?
Short or long answers can be emailed to me at [email protected]. I hope you’ll will engage with this seriously :)


Cheers! Let the games begin!!
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
02 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
tl;dr - lots of not-so-humble bragging. Talk to everyone each turn with substance and try to get the entire board to move in the way you want it to move.
Sh@dow (3512 D)
02 Mar 15 UTC
Personal examples are the only examples available to me to make my point. Unfortunately, in this game, without access to every line of press that someone else sent, it is impossible to give concrete examples of diplomatic success and manipulation without using your own experiences. It just seemed the best way to make the argument that I was trying to make. And examples seemed an essential part of illustrating it.
Yes, in hindsight - the use of examples comes across as bragging - which is mortifying. That certainly wasn't the point and I apologise if that turned people off from absorbing any of the essence of it.
ssorenn (0 DX)
02 Mar 15 UTC
" the use of examples comes across as bragging - which is mortifying"

I'm quite sure you've already gotten past it...:P
I was just ribbing ya Sh@dow. Its a good post, albeit a long one. Every student really should take the time to read through it.
DeathLlama8 (514 D)
03 Mar 15 UTC
GLHF everyone! Glad to be in the SOW again, last time certainly didn't end well.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
03 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
Your TA was probably holding you back last time DeathLlama9. This time you won't be cursed with such burden!
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
04 Mar 15 UTC
Bump for Spring 1901 moves
goldfinger0303 (3157 DMod)
04 Mar 15 UTC
(+1)
I definitely do not have time to write commentary for this phase, so I will leave that to others.

But, in short- E,F,G,I,T had pretty solid openings. Lots of opportunities for them to choose from.

A - you're far, far too open and vulnerable from that opening. Big gamble, but can it have a big reward?

R - opening to Armenia is almost never advisable. If you want to be anti-Turk, then open to Black Sea and leave room for a fleet build in Sev in the fall. Armenia is never worth it, because Turkey will 100% of the time have a spare unit doing nothing that can cover Ank.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
04 Mar 15 UTC
The name of the game is grabbing dots and this group of students certainly already is quite adept at chasing them, maybe in some cases too much!

S01 Homework
Grades based on correctness(ish), evidence that your moves were extensively thought about, and thought put into the answer(s).
--------------------------
Austria:
You didn't cover an attack by Italy nor by Russia and instead went for putting more power on Greece and Rumania. Which dots do you think you'll own at the end of 1901? Why?

England:
A Northern opening by you and not by Russia means you can ensure yourself at least one build. Why did you move army YOR instead of EDI? I'm not saying I approve or disapprove here, but there are pros and cons of each; list them and what determined your decision to favor one over the other.

France:
A gross display of power taking Burgundy with 2 power over a 0 power territory. What led to this decision?

Germany:
There are two non-German units touching Munich. This means Munich could be attacked with 0, 1, or 2 strength. Which do you think it will be and why? [if you think it is with 1, which power. If you think it is with 2, who will attack and who will support?]

Italy:
Tyrolia touches three opposing, empty home centers with no back-up. Between Austria and Germany, who do you think takes more offense? While you shouldn't copy paste your press in your answer, using your press to answer is expected and encouraged.

Russia:
SEV-ARM has two possible purposes. List them and why you think the one you chose will work for you in the long-term.

Turkey:
You control the Black Sea, the territory on the space that touches the most supply centers after North Sea. And as any person who has played more than one game of Diplomacy would do, you have a unit in Bulgaria. Turkey play is both the most constrained and sometimes the most brain-burning at the same time, so I apologize that this will be worded oddly. What empty territory should have you worried?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
04 Mar 15 UTC
Just to reinforce to players:

***********************************************
***Do not post answers on the forums.***
***********************************************

PM/email them to me.

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