@ abge

True enough. But it's also unclear how racist any of us are when it comes down to it. Still, benefit of the doubt and all that...

Obama has a horrible vision of government which is large sectors of society supervised and controlled by large bureaucracies staffed by overpaid, overcompensated, inefficient government employees located in Washington D.C.
Obama has a horrible conception of Federalism. Obama's hypocrisy is disgusting. He was a demagogue all through the 2008 campaign on closing down Guantanamo, having the most transparent administration ever, and a host of issues.
Obama has an admirable life story, but there are a lot of Americans with admirable stories who are not in government, much less President.
Obama needs to be a one-term President, and he needs to suffer a landslide defeat in 2012 to repudiate big government socialism for decades to come.

@ krellin

Hard to imagine Obama is racist. Ignore his actions for a moment (which I don't think have been racist myself, but I'm no expert) and just look at the practicalities. To become President, Obama needed a lot of powerful friends. Due to many reasons I won't bother talking about, the majority of powerful people in the US are white. I very much doubt the numerous powerful white supporters that helped get Obama where he was would have done it if the believed him to be anti-white.

Not to mention the huge number of white friends and family he has...

Or indeed that he has very little in common with the traditional African-American community...

That doesn't mean I think he's a good President, but there have been plenty who were worse.

Krellin is probably one of those teabaggers you see on tv with a sign depicting Obama as a monkey and question Obama's status an American, but yeah sure Obama is the racist. I'm not going to bother posting the litany of comments made by Krellin's ilk about Obama since he's gotten into office. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Krellin buys into the Obama is a black supremacist meme.

And should I even point out that when someone in this thread says he used to support the idea of extermination all "Negroids" as he called them (Fasces continues to use the word 'Negro') the first thing our hero Krellin comes up with is "That Obama is so racist."

@ Putin

Are the pictures of Obama as a monkey intentionally racist? I seem to recall that there where plenty of pictures in the British media depicting Bush as a monkey during his Presidency.

Putin, I might disagree with you on some of the finer points, but at least you make an argument. Expecting Krellin to be anything but an angry ignoramus is a recipe for massive disappointment.

And yeah. I have trouble accepting that somebody isn't overly racist when they use terms like "negroids" when they're being serious.

So I'm going to assume that Fasces is trolling, and not being stupid... because I refuse to think that somebody is that moronic in the 21st century. (and yes, I'm aware that position is setting me up for some big disappointments.)

Octavious, I'm sure you're aware of the painful associations of 'monkey' directed at people of African descent. I'm sure you've seen a zillion football games in which bananas are thrown on the field at black players and a bunch of fascist hooligans engage in monkey chants to mock the black players. I'm not buying any effort to sell false equivalence here.

But if the monkey thing doesn't convince fine, how about depictions of Obama with a bone up his nose. Or the "The Zoo has an African Lion and the White House has a Lyin' African".

Everybody wants the mantle of victim and everybody wants to deny other more oppressed groups victimhood status, so of course there will be efforts to obfuscate and equate any of this with the average insult against a politician.

"So you're a somewhat rich, somewhat racist prick. :-)"
we could go with that.

"1) It's unclear if he actually does feel ashamed of his racist past, and
2) It's unclear how racist he really still is."
1) would I be as quick as I am to admit that I was racist and say after every point
2) As racist as anyone should be

2) As racist as anyone should be
Which would be, "Not at all racist?"

While I agree that racism is despicable, let's calm down for a moment. Remember Conservative Man?

Anyway, to go back to the earlier point about building aircraft carriers, I was not implying that aircraft carriers are bad, I just meant that just because aircraft carriers are being built everywhere and everyone wants one doesn't actually mean they are any good. Most battleship were actually not sunk by other ships, they were too expensive to lose and so most of the time they were stuck in port.

I haven't really been involved in this conversation and I don't really want to derail it (or touch it with a 10 foot poll) but, Putin, I must ask you to explain your comment:
"despite the best efforts to portray white farmers as being the victims of some kind of racial pogrom. "

Like Invictus, I'm a little shocked that you would come to Mugabe's defence. Unless we're misinterpreting it, I think this needs some explanation. Feel free to pm or do it in another post if you don't want to derail this post.

About me saying Negroid, whats more politically correct:
Black, Africa, Negroid or Nigger?
I would say Negroid,

You'll notice I say Caucasian instead of white.
and Orient or Mongoloid instead of yellow or Asian.

"Which would be, "Not at all racist?"
anyone who thinks the only biological difference between the races is skin color is just bullshitting himself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
http://www.newstatesman.com/africa/2007/10/watson-intelligence-race
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_sports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health

"Like Invictus, I'm a little shocked that you would come to Mugabe's defence. Unless we're misinterpreting it, I think this needs some explanation. Feel free to pm or do it in another post if you don't want to derail this post."
What Mugabe did was he took the land owned by Caucasians and spread it among the poorer Negroids. This huge spreading the wealth plan is rather socialist, hence why putin supports it...
However points that should be noted:
Since then the GDP has fallen by at least 5% every year except for one. (which showed a 4.5% drop) (and its been 13)
Agricultural exports by Zimbabwe have been halved

it was a disaster cause rather then giving the farmlands to the Brits who new how to farm he gave it to Zimbabweans who didn't.

O for fasces sake, grow up.

"O for fasces sake, grow up."
What are you complaining about now?

@Fasces - I'm not bullshitting myself and clearly I know much more about this than you do. Race is a socially constructed concept, it has no biological validity, and I've made this point, and backed it up with evidence on this forum like 80 times. I'm not doing it again. Normally I'd try and correct you because this is frustrating to see you say things like that, but this time I just don't have the energy. I would encourage you to look into the issue on your own but I suspect you probably won't bother, and even if you did you'd just come to the conclusion that black people are inherently dumber anyway, because that's what you want to believe.

Speaking of scientific racism -all you Reagan lovers who dislike Obama's supposedly shady connections. You ever heard of Roger Pearson? Yeah this guy was personally congratulated by Reagan in 1982 for his contributions to conservatism. You lose.

when have I ever supported Reagan?
@mafia: So your saying the only differences between races is colour? So the only difference between Dalmatians and Labs is the spots? When mankind spread across the world each of the different environments lead to evolutionary changes, the most notable changes were skin colour and size of the eyes.

If you say those are the only two differences between races, other then socially constructed concepts, then you are denying that evolution played a role on the development of humans. So are you a creationist? If yes I have no time to waste on you, if no can you care to explain how evolution sparked radical changes to the body, to develop different average heights, different colour of skins, different shapes of eyes. But lead to no minor differences such as strength or a few IQ points? My grade 12 biology teach accepts the fact that their are differences between the races, we spent a few classes on this at the beginning of the year.

So does that mean your also saying that Canada's school system is fucked up because it has taught me that Mongoloids and Caucasians have larger brains then Negroids?
I am not denying that our class structure gave advantages to Caucasians, but those advantages didn't come from nowhere, the reason we got them is because our ancestors conquered the world 300 years ago. The races evolved differently, if you can not accept that then how can you explain the differences in skin, and better yet how can you explain that whites were all originally from Europe, blacks from Africa and yellows from Asia?
As discussed last time this topic came up the fact is the races evolved differently given the environments they were in and developed traits that were important for survival in the environments they lived in . There is a reason that for almost every olympic sport, Negroids are those claiming the gold medals, there is a reason that almost every scientific breakthrough the scientists are either Caucasian or Mongoloid.

Also as I showed earlier:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-than-westerners-394898.html
http://www.newstatesman.com/africa/2007/10/watson-intelligence-race
and I also included the wikipedia articles on this.

If you simply Google race and intelligence almost all the articles talk about the differences in IQs between the races. Those differences can't just be a coincidence and Nobel Prize winner James Watson claimed "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really" the fact is nobel prize winners who are better educated on the subject then both you and me are backing me up. What does that say about who is right?

I was referring more to Krellin.

A 12th grade education with a 12-year-old's understanding.

"A 12th grade education with a 12-year-old's understanding."
Thats a lot better then your 5th grade education with a 5-year-old's understanding

Very interesting comment about race that you have made. If you **truly** examine Obama's writings and rantings....if you examine the words of his wife....if you examine the words of his Pastor of 20 years....you will find that we have elected a President that is ***deeply** resentful of White America. Though he has achieved the highest office, he sees that a fluke. If you want to talk about racism, the first and foremost person to examine this day and age is OBAMA, the consummate racist. Obama, who's AG *refused* to prosecute Black Panther member that admitted their guilt in election crimes. Obama is a ***despicable*** in human history,...and will go down as one of the WORST Presidents in American history. My God....he took us into a war in Libya FOR WHAT? WHAT vital US interest? Oh....I know....the vital US interest is RE-ELECTION when all you other poll numbers suck...."

Do you have any evidence to support this unintelligable claim or are you going to keep regurgitating Ann Coulter rants all over this thread?

""A 12th grade education with a 12-year-old's understanding."
Thats a lot better then your 5th grade education with a 5-year-old's understanding"
That's a lot better than your 2nd grade education with a 2-year-old's understanding

Am I winning now?

"So your saying the only differences between races is colour? So the only difference between Dalmatians and Labs is the spots? When mankind spread across the world each of the different environments lead to evolutionary changes, the most notable changes were skin colour and size of the eyes."

You equate race with species, which is definitely not the case. This is psuedo science and you know it, at least I hope.

"That's a lot better than your 2nd grade education with a 2-year-old's understanding

Am I winning now?"
No cause your a fetus!

"You equate race with species, which is definitely not the case. This is psuedo science and you know it, at least I hope. "
So Dalmatians and Poodles are identical because they both fall under the dog category in species?

"So Dalmatians and Poodles are identical because they both fall under the dog category in species?"

-Facepalm- I'm not even going to bother anymore. -_-

Race is just about as important as eye color. Sure, there are some small biological differences (like how most people in East Asia are lactose intolerant and how blacks with sickle blood cells have a resistance to malaria), but when it comes to other traits any differences are produced solely by culture.

If you took a poor black baby from the South Side of Chicago and had him be raised by a rich family in the Northeast where he went to private prep schools and an Ivy League university he would be a much more intelligent individual than if he had stayed. Conversely, if you took that rich family's baby and put him in the South Side where schooling is dreadful and large parts of the culture disparage education in favor of fast money in crime he would do very poorly on an IQ test.

It's the opportunities you get and what kind of an individual you happen to be that determine your life, not "race" as such. What differences there are are a result of culture, not biology. Get your head out of your ass, Fasces349.

@StevenC - You walked into it because, unfortunately, canis lupus familiaris is the species of the household pet we typically call a dog, although some are canis lupus dingo, but those are mostly in Australia where the dingo has been domesticated.

Not to detract from the absolutely brilliant and admirably mature discussion on race, let alone return to the intended subject of the forum, but is there anyone out there at all who strongly supports so-called ObamaCare and the intervention?

I find it interesting that most people rapidly retreat to the party line on those issues, so the major positions are "I'm concerned about socialism but of course I support bombing Arabs" or "I support healthcare rights for all but I despise imperialism and randomly invading countries", with both sides citing international law as if anybody listens to international law.