Black September rings a bell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

CHAMOIS - I pity you, you anti-Semite. You are a miserable excuse for a human being. But I support your right to exist, you repulsive asshole. Anybody that says a group of people have no right to exist should probably take a long, hard look in the mirror and try to figure out what the fuck is wrong with himself.

re: Israel, Iraq, N Korea, whoever...AND the US. You know, people bitch that we went into Iraq, and then say ,"Why aren't you ALSO in country X..." Implying 1. There WAS a good reason to be where we are. 2. There ARE other places that need cleaning up and 3. The US is the only country with the balls to consistently put their lives on the line for the freedom of others.

I wish to hell we had never gone into Iraq, because without the US Saddam would have been emboldened to continue his escapades...and then you'd all be crying for our help...as is always the case. Hell, Europe couldn't even clean up it's own mess in the Balkans, and the Middle East has been a pit of hatred and war forever. When is the last time the French or the, I don't know, Palestinians offered to lead a UN Mandated clean-up after some two-bit asshole dictator got out of hand?

I'd love for the US to withdraw ALL our troops and put them all on the border to keep illegal aliens out. We should stop wasting our lives and spending our money and food and aide on every asshole backwards nation that sticks it hand out. Within a short span of history every two-bit dictator with a hard-on for expansion would be slaughtering innocent people, because they would know there would be no repercussions without the might of the US military to make the UN functional.

ummmm....really? Harsh...I want everyone to know that I am American and do NOT share the views expressed above...

I don't share the views, either - I stated them to make an extreme point.

I think our troops have a purpose where they are....But don't people always bitch about US troops overseas. "WTF is the US doing here or there..." when most of the time we have been ASKED to be there. But what I say - withdraw our troops - is what all the haters of the US always SAY they want. So I'm laying out the scenario...OK, WHAT IF...

Go back to the 50s and 60s. What if the US went back to isolationism instead of keeping troops based in Western Europe? If the US brought all its troops home?

No, i think that your current government is responcible for the actions of the previous.

So when Bush sent troops to Iraq now Obama is responcible for the reconstruction of civil institutions there.

You can't just wash your hands because of criticism. You still have to face cricism for mistakes madeby your leaders.

"As for Iraq, France has been systematically undermining our foreign policy since at least the Suez Crisis of '56." - em, i'm just going to go out on a limb here and suggest that competeing interests for trade and oil meant it was in france's national interest to oppose American policy with their own.

They are a sovereign nation what do you expect them to do?

As for Haiti, being a former french colony you can expect them to want to retain some influence there.

The stereotype of the US going it alone without consulting others is displayed here - and why some europeans dislike it.

I don't think the US should have asked permission to send an aircraft carrier, but there is no reason why they shouldn't have informed the french (european allies)

"I don't share the views, either - I stated them to make an extreme point." I can do that too watch:

'I wish the american people would all rise up against their government and then destory their economic system in a civil war - and Europeans would take the opportunity to regain their dominance in the world.'

But it is childish and immature - nevermind how uncaring and uncivilised it happens to be.

Excuse me, you complete fucking retard. Turkey has not genocidally exterminated rebels? Are you fucking kidding me? The Armenian Genocide!!! Ever heard of it? Also, it is a major part of 80s-90s leftist anti-American pablum to blame the US for Turkish butchering of Kurds. Noam Chomsky used to rant about it almost every time he was interviewed.

As for Pakistan, they periodically murder Shiites in reasonably large numbers. They have committed pograms against the Baluchis and the Muslim immigrants from India are systematically discriminated against and occasionally targeted. Bhutto originally gained power to a significant degree by drumming up anti-Indian refugee animus. Saddam started mass murdering Kurds from the moment he took power several years before he became a US ally and the Baathi had been butchering Kurds for a decade before Saddam came to power.

I'm sorry ad hominem attacks are uncalled for. I'm sure you are within the normal IQ range and suffer from no genetic cognitive disorders. But you should be at least familiar with things before you say things like that. The Kurds have been butchered by the Iraqis, the Turks, the Iranians and the Syrians. This is particularly glaring since Saddam claimed to aspire to be the modern Saladin, who was Kurdish.

"Anybody that says a group of people have no right to exist should probably take a long, hard look in the mirror and try to figure out what the fuck is wrong with himself."
I never said the jews should not exist, I said they must not creat a state in other people lands, like if the french created a state in the middle of the USA and persecuted the natives. What a shame!

France was a sovereign Nation living under our protective umbrella. They invaded Egypt in alliance with Israel and the UK without informing us and did so during the Hungarian standoff while we were trying to pry Hungary out from behind the Iron Curtain. France and the UK pretty much humiliated us on the world stage and provided cover for the Soviets to send in the tanks to crush resistance in Budapest. As a result, we took both the Brits and the French to the woodshed and basically had to demonstrate in front of the world that they were no long world powers. They also did this during an American Presidential Election.

Most of Jew that live now in the so called Israel state, lived in Europe before, they went in Palestine because of their fanatism.

"I'm sure you are within the normal IQ range and suffer from no genetic cognitive disorders." LOL

"Most of Jew that live now in the so called Israel state, lived in Europe before, they went in Palestine because of their fanatism. "

Wow. That has to be the king of ignorance. Really? That's why they left Europe? Seriously Chamois? And you want to claim you aren't anti-semetic? You are European right? Do you know your European history?

How can you justify that colonisation of Palestine?

"like if the french created a state in the middle of the USA" - Louisiana?

The Jews did buy the land at roughly 5 times its value. And the previous owners sold of their own free will. The Jews did not steal land, in the beginning. The Jewish Partition was almost entirely land purchased from Turkish and Syrian landowners from the Ottoman era, who had little interest in keeping the land after the Ottoman Empire broke up and it was now in a separate country. Plus the land the Jews originally settled on was the shit land in Israel. The West Bank and Gaza and Haifa was the valuable land. Hence, the whole making the desert bloom aspect of the kibbutz movement.

I always thought chamois to be beautiful, gentle, cuddly creatures. Must've been wrong.

We know the stereotypical Jew, Arab, Black African, Indian, Irish, Scottish, terrorist crap. Get off your soapbox and settle down, FFS!

Yes I think I know history quite well. Since the end of WW2 the jews aren't persecuted anymore in Europe. All the peaceful and moderate jews I know don't want to migrate in Israel.

Did not I point this out earlier? Most Israeli Jews are Arabs expelled from Arab League countries after the '48 war. They are not European refugees. 900,000 came just from Morocco. Add in high birth rates and you get a bigger portion of the population. And they certainly did not go to Israel out of fanaticism. Most European Zionists were borderline atheists any way. David Ben-Gurian clearly was. It is doubtful the man ever had an non-secular thought in his life.

If Europeans now outnumber the Sephardim, it can only be by virtue of the Russians who immigrated in the 90s and the recent massive increase in Ultra-Orthodox births (in aggregate numbers not rate).

Actually there was a spate of anti-Semitic attacks in France a few years ago. Generally by Arabs but there were claims that the French police were not prosecuting the attacks very vigorously. Admittedly that might just be French civil servant laziness more than racism.

You can buy as many lands you want in France, but it will stay France, even if the land is owned by Americans etc...And yes France created Louisiana bt everyone commonly agreed that colonialism is wrong. And of course when you criticize Israel they call you anti-semite, nazi etc... So you cannot debate! I am not anti-semite, I have really good jew friends .

And I am not arab.

I think you've met your match, chamois. If you want to take this further, I'd suggest a one-to-one email conversation with the gopher.

I have never accused you of being an Anti-Semite.

The Partition happened because the Arabs were trying to force the Jews out....off of the land they had purchased. The British gave up on trying to keep the Arabs and Jews from killing one another and so tried to divide them into separate states. The Jews accepted and the Arabs refused. The Jews accepted the idea of a bi-national state so long as they were allowed to buy land and have open immigration; the Arabs refused. Partition was chosen as the next most workable solution. The only alternative that the Arabs put forward was the Jews go away or die and give up all of the land they had bought.

Imagine that the Arabs had won any of the wars: What would the Arabs have done to the Jews? How does that compare to what the Jews have done to the Arabs?

I feel confident we would not today be sitting here talking about the Jewish population living in occupied territories. We might be talk about the mass graves in Tel Aviv, but it seems unlikely to me that we would be talking about living breathing Jews in Arab controlled Jerusalem.

Ok Time and G.gopher27, I will shut up and agreed with you, anyway I don't really care about Palestine and Israel, I seems impossible they find peace anyway.

I'm pretty sure the world is just as hostile to the American people traveling through their country as Americans are to foreigners are traveling through America. Some people are mean to everyone. Get over yourself- you're nothing special because you're foreign and I'm nothing special because I am American. I love how no one can separate America from the idea of our armies going places and killing the sh*t out of everything there. Maybe if you're nice, you will not be next. Dumb question to start this post.

And honestly I don't give a shit about Israel. I don't understand why we should be involved. If the Arabs butcher the Jews, so what? If the Jews butcher the Arabs, so what? If the Israelis were really the great villains that Arabs and Europeans seem to believe, there would not be any Arabs left; the Israelis could wipe them out in a few days. The Jews are not morally superior to other people by virtue of their victimhood in Europe but nor are they required to live by a higher moral and ethical standard than their neighbors. They live is a dangerous neighborhood and have the resources to take care of themselves. I don't fully understand why I'm expected to care.....It is not like New York and California are even competitive states American elections. And Jews keep voting and contributing to Democrats no matter who much abuse the Democrats heap on Israel or how supportive Republicans are of Israel. I'm baffled why we are still involved. When Nasser was threatening Saudi Arabia, it made some sense. but now I don't get it.

And by the way, before the '73 war Israel was a French client state.

One more question: Why are right wing Texans still accused of killing Jack Kennedy, when it was a Castro loving Communist, and left wing Palestinians are never blamed for killing Bobby Kennedy?